Contradiction In Christian Theology On Prayer

[Alexandrian]

This is an argument that I found particularly convincing while I was deconverting. I think it could possibly be useful in deconverting other Christians as well.

 

Start with some standard Christian beliefs:

 

1. God is omnibenevolent, and wants everyone to be saved.

 

While Christians are fond of talking how God won't interfere with your choice if you choose the path to eternal torture, they do hold that God would still prefer we choose Christianity, and thus Salvation

 

2. Prayer is effectual, and can influence God's actions.

 

Nearly all Christians believe this, that prayer can make a big difference in the world. If they didn't believe this, the only things worth praying for would be to praise God and to ask for Forgiveness. But that's not the case- Christians actively pray for God to things they would like him to do, and believe that God does answers prayers. In Catholicism, this was put well by Pope John Paul II when he said "Praying the Rosary can change the course of history". In Protestantism, this is evidenced by the large number of "Prayer Warriors" who are solicited to support their various causes.

 

It is implicit with the above statement that prayer can cause God to take actions he would not take otherwise.

 

3. Furthermore, praying for someone to choose Christianity or accept Christ is effectual.

 

This is evident in the reaction of "I'll prayer for you" when confronted by an opponent of Christianity. It's not without basis biblically to believe that God can seriously intervene when he wants to- in the Bible he comes on pretty strongly to move the apostle Paul over to his side. Most Christians do seem to believe that praying for someone struggling with their faith in God or for some non-Christian considering Christianity is an important and helpful action.

 

 

So, if you say that prayers for someone to be saved are effectual, you are saying that God varies the influence on a struggling soul based on the amount or presence of prayer; that prayer will lead God to take some actions to prevent someone from burning for eternity that he would not have otherwise.

 

This, I believe, contradicts the first statement. If God is varying his efforts in what he does to encourage people to follow a path leading to heaven, then he is not omnibenevolent. If God truly desires that all be saved, and God is omnipotent, then it would only be logical for God to do everything he could(without a violating any higher principles such as free will) to influence people to avoid damnation. Prayer should not make a difference; God should do the maximum he could in any case without violating free will or causing some other evil to influence people. But yet, Christians still hold it is important to pray for people to come to Christ. Thus, in this way Christian theology on prayer contradicts the idea of an omnibenevolent God.

 

Thoughts? Anyone think this could be an effective line of reasoning with a Christian?

[RHEMtron]

no because xtains have poor critical thinking skills. theyll just look at you with a puzzled look on their face cause they didnt understand what you were trying to tell them... then theyll say, "ummmmm.... ill pray for you!"

[garrisonjj]

If god knows everything,,,,why do we need to ask? doesn't he already know what we need/ So to me prayer is like begging. I can honestly say my prayers were never answered. Now that I am deconverting,,,I have a sense of not being sure about eternal damnation. i was a catholic so if you deny god,,,,as i have,,,youve had it! Everlasting damnation. I am still trying to reconccile this teaching.

[Lycorth]

The Xian notion of prayer is contradictory. An all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful god is either sick or stupid if it doesn't answer our prayers, and especially before we say them. After all, Yahooweh is supposed to be all of that, and yet Xians advocate wasting hours in prayer trying to get a favor or two out of him. If he had nearly half the compassion he is alleged, he'd know what we need and take care of it. There would be no sin, no devil, no Hell, and no unanswered prayers nor even conditions that would necessitate prayer. Prayer should not even be a concept in the religion of an all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful god.