Wertbag Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Wouldn't chaos be the opposite of design? If we look to the universe and see galaxies colliding, black holes devouring solar systems, planets pock marked by rains of meteors and swirling clouds of random dust, shouldn't that point towards a lack of design? If every living thing is unique, if our planet has moving tectonic plates that cause random natural disasters, if invisible galactic radiation can strike anyone at anytime, or weather patterns can change dramatically hour to hour... Design talks to regular, organised, planned and standardised. Chaos talks to random, to unpredictable, to untracked and unknown. When you look at the universe or earth which better fits? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonobserver Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 On 1/14/2022 at 4:51 PM, Wertbag said: Wouldn't chaos be the opposite of design? If we look to the universe and see galaxies colliding, black holes devouring solar systems, planets pock marked by rains of meteors and swirling clouds of random dust, shouldn't that point towards a lack of design? If every living thing is unique, if our planet has moving tectonic plates that cause random natural disasters, if invisible galactic radiation can strike anyone at anytime, or weather patterns can change dramatically hour to hour... Design talks to regular, organised, planned and standardised. Chaos talks to random, to unpredictable, to untracked and unknown. When you look at the universe or earth which better fits? What you've outlined here isn't chaos. Physical laws being intermittent and unpredictable......THAT would be chaos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 16, 2022 Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2022 Isn't chaos the opposite of order? I can design something, but it's still chaotic. (I.e. bad design) But this isn't the opposite of chaos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 A system can be designed to give a pseudo-random result, such as lottery numbers pumped out by a ticket machine. But it still follows rules. As MoonObserver pointed out, all the physical laws are still there when a galaxy collides with another. What is more telling that there is no actual designer is when believers are subject to crime, abuse, natural disasters, poverty, homelessness, hunger, disease, and their god does nothing to help. This despite the precious promises of Jesus saying not to worry about food and shelter because god provides for the birds of the air and believers are "worth more than many birds... " (Luke 12:22-34). Other believers will tell them that god did answer, it just looks different than what they expected and is really a deep mysterious wonderful thing, ooohh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted January 16, 2022 Super Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2022 Maybe a more reasonable conclusion is that god's just a dumbass. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted January 17, 2022 Share Posted January 17, 2022 21 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said: Maybe a more reasonable conclusion is that god's just a dumbass. The ancients wrote that into a lot of their myths, but they also felt resigned to not being in control of the whims of the gods, though they did all they could to try and placate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantheory Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Is chaos the opposite of design? In common use, the word chaos is the opposite of the word order, not necessarily by design. This order can be creation by design, evolution, or even a perceived order by chance.. Design is generally the creation of something for use, function, beauty, etc., involving some kind of order.. In common use, the word chaos means “complete confusion and disorder: a state in which behavior and events are not controlled by anything.” https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/chaos In science, modern physics, mathematics, mechanics, etc. the word chaos has a different meaning. In science, Chaos is considered an entirely separate field of study involving mathematics of a number of different types, with the goal of better predictions for well-understood systems, processes, mechanics. etc. In related scientific studies: “Systems have been studied that behave unpredictably despite their seeming simplicity and the fact that the forces involved are governed by well-understood physical laws. The common element in these systems is a very high degree of sensitivity to initial conditions and to the way in which they are set in motion. For example, the meteorologist Edward Lorenz discovered that a simple model of heat convection possesses intrinsic unpredictability, a circumstance he called the “butterfly effect,” suggesting that the mere flapping of a butterfly’s wing can change the weather.” A more down-to-Earth example is the pinball machine: “the ball’s movements are precisely governed by laws of gravitational rolling and elastic collisions—both fully understood—yet the final outcome is unpredictable.” https://www.britannica.com/science/chaos-theory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonobserver Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 On 1/17/2022 at 7:01 AM, Fuego said: The ancients wrote that into a lot of their myths, but they also felt resigned to not being in control of the whims of the gods, though they did all they could to try and placate them. And among the gods have always been the Tricksters, those incorrigible bringers of chaos. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrkhoos Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 6 hours ago, Moonobserver said: And among the gods have always been the Tricksters, those incorrigible bringers of chaos. Sometimes I think the polytheists made more sense than the modern Abrahamic omnimax God :)) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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