Asimov Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 It is often posited by many a person that the human body is simply a receiver (like a TV) in the Universe and that our thoughts/emotions/self/conscousness exists independent of the body, particularly the brain. A common argument against that idea refers to the fact that when the brain itself is stimulated in certain ways, or when brain damage occurs that we either are unable to recognize certain objects or we lose a part of ourselves. For instance, stroke victims or victims of Alzheimer's. The refutation for this would clearly be that a TV when it is disrupted in some way ceases to transmit the image properly and thus it is a problem of wiring. The image is still being transmitted and still exists independant of the tv, but the tv is not picking it up. I've been thinking about this idea, and I find a specific flaw in this counter-argument. If the mind itself is independant of the body, and the body is just a "transmitter" of the (for lack of a better word) soul...then why do we lose consciousness when we sleep or are knocked out? Why does our consciousness itself cease to function when our bodies cease to function? I've gone to sleep plenty of times and I can say that I ceased to be aware of anything while I was asleep....if my signal is still there...where is it coming from and why is it not aware except when it's in the body? Clearly the answers to these questions will be ad hoc, so I do not expect anyone to actually answer with intellectual insight. But these are apparent problems with such an idea. In conclusion, if the mind is independant of the body, and the mind is but a projection from a source...then why does it appear that the mind itself is dependant upon the body and not upon the source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 It is often posited by many a person that the human body is simply a receiver (like a TV) in the Universe and that our thoughts/emotions/self/conscousness exists independent of the body, particularly the brain. If this were true, then why I can't I see the world through your eyes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibby Posted April 27, 2006 Share Posted April 27, 2006 It is often posited by many a person that the human body is simply a receiver (like a TV) in the Universe and that our thoughts/emotions/self/conscousness exists independent of the body, particularly the brain. If this were true, then why I can't I see the world through your eyes? Without something to be conscious of consciousness remains unconscious. Consciousness arises with its object, they are not independent but one. Consciousness and what it is conscious of are like two poles of a magnet. You cannot have just south or north poles, they arise together. Consciousness evolves ever more complex forms to express itself more consciously. There is a need for some stability in the way the brain expresses consciousness, because the organism needs to survive in this dimension of reality. But it is by no means always limited to this system, and can in special circumstances tune into other experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I'm going to go smoke some crack now. After that, then maybe I'll have a decent reply to this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 It is often posited by many a person that the human body is simply a receiver (like a TV) in the Universe and that our thoughts/emotions/self/conscousness exists independent of the body, particularly the brain. If this were true, then why I can't I see the world through your eyes? Without something to be conscious of consciousness remains unconscious. Consciousness arises with its object, they are not independent but one. Consciousness and what it is conscious of are like two poles of a magnet. You cannot have just south or north poles, they arise together. Consciousness evolves ever more complex forms to express itself more consciously. There is a need for some stability in the way the brain expresses consciousness, because the organism needs to survive in this dimension of reality. But it is by no means always limited to this system, and can in special circumstances tune into other experiences. I'm confused...are you agreeing with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Helmet Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Yes he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 Yes he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibby Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I'm confused...are you agreeing with me? Not if you are saying that the brain alone causes consciousness. I believe that consciousness grows the brain; that the brain, body and everything is in consciousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 Nope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Eh! I think Asimov is more in the line that consciousness (and subconsciousness) is an effect of the material world rather than opposite. And the argument is that if consciousness was metaphysical, why does it go to sleep when my body sleeps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Finished smoking my crack and I still don't have a reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibby Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Eh! I think Asimov is more in the line that consciousness (and subconsciousness) is an effect of the material world rather than opposite. And the argument is that if consciousness was metaphysical, why does it go to sleep when my body sleeps? You could just as easily say that consciousness withdraws from the conscious to the unconscious mode, and the brain wave activity changes to reflect that. What answer are you looking for Freethawt? What would constitute a decent reply? Sorry Asimov if I wondered off the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 You could just as easily say that consciousness withdraws from the conscious to the unconscious mode, and the brain wave activity changes to reflect that. Then how does drugs affect consciousness and sleep behavior? Or brain injuries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibby Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 You could just as easily say that consciousness withdraws from the conscious to the unconscious mode, and the brain wave activity changes to reflect that. Then how does drugs affect consciousness and sleep behavior? Or brain injuries? Usually the brain functions to tune consciousness into this reality, and that is essential for us to be able to function here. Maybe drugs can affect the brain and re tune or alter its "receiving" potential (like different radio stations......usually the brain is tuned into radio earth, but with drugs the tuning can be affected to pick up other things or distorted). When parts of the brain are damaged then they can no longer express that part of consciousness. For example, a part of the TV may malfunction and you may no longer get a colour picture. Does that mean that colour is no longer available? No. Its still there, but no longer being "consciously" experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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