Omni what?

[Sexton Blake]

Many claims are made about their imaginary friend by believers. Like a comic book character, he can do anything required of him.

 

Omnipotent?

 

Judges 1:19 And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

 

I always found this verse strange. How can this be with a God who made an entire Universe? Demons are said to be helpless against iron.

 

Omniscient?

 

That means that God knows everything, that he let every evil thing from Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit onwards happen and did nothing to prevent it, so he could then punish people. It would also mean a knowledge of the future, with God knowing everything he will do, every day, forever, making him nothing more than a puppet going through the motions. If he changes anything and does something else, then he cannot see the future.

 

Omnipresent?

 

Like the bible authors who were everywhere they needed to be, and with a perfect memory remembering everything said and done. For God it would mean he saw every evil done, every nasty and vile thing done, every horror that ever was. He watched it all happen and never did anything to stop it, like watching each and every one of his six million chosen people be murdered by the Nazis in WW2. And until recently he got to watch 29,000, now reduced now to 20,000 babies and little children suffer and die every single day, and he does nothing.

[florduh]

Yes, I have also pondered why his "hands" have been tied so often if he exists and is supernatural. Nothing about it adds up! Mysterious ways, I suppose 

 

[Joshpantera]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:45 PM, Sexton Blake said:

Omnipresent?

 

Like the bible authors who were everywhere they needed to be, and with a perfect memory remembering everything said and done. For God it would mean he saw every evil done, every nasty and vile thing done, every horror that ever was. He watched it all happen and never did anything to stop it, like watching each and every one of his six million chosen people be murdered by the Nazis in WW2. And until recently he got to watch 29,000, now reduced now to 20,000 babies and little children suffer and die every single day, and he does nothing.

 

This is one of the most important aspects of counter apologetics in my view. Try as they will, this one is difficult to impossible to get out of. And mostly impossible. I have yet to see anyone get out of it. 

 

Omnipresence is devastating to the christian message.

 

Because it's not just that an omnipresent is observing these evils, as if from afar and somehow disconnected from it all as an outside observer -  omnipresence would mean present inside and outside of it all. To even think in terms of inside or outside is meaningless against the idea of "all present." It's a wholeness. Not divided presences which has to be "all" consuming. Or else it isn't omnipresence. It's something less than that. 

 

To be "all present," necessarily breaks down to presence in space, presence in all material, presence in all of the good, and presence in all of the evil. There's no sense of a 'lack of presence' in anything or anywhere when you're making the claim of "all presence" or "everywhere present." Anything less than "all" is automatically 'partial and selective presence.' 

 

The Vedic tradition realized this long before the christian era. The christian tradition still has not owned up to it yet, some 2,000 years later. Vedic tradition let's it be what it is - all present. And can deal with the implications of accepting it as such.

 

Christianity claims omnipresence, but then doesn't own up to the claim in the same way. It runs and hides from the necessary implications after making the claim. 

 

An omnipresent god wouldn't simply watch evil and do nothing to stop it, an omnipresent god has to be present as all involved - observer, culprit, and victim!

 

The presence is omni or it isn't. And if it isn't, then the claim is immediately false. This is a sweating and uncertain which of two buttons to push moment for christians. 

 

Omnipresent or not????

 

An omnipresent god has to both watch the suffering babies and little children while at the same time having a presence as the very babies and children suffering - doing nothing to stop any of it even to the extent that the god IS it. All of it. Present in every aspect of any given scenario and all parties involved. Space, time, and matter. Every single aspect of existence. Therefore present in all of the good and evil simultaneous. 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

The OT god seems a lot more like one of the Greek or other gods, which had a LOT of human character flaws. But most people took the approach of "Yeah, but whaddya gonna do? They're in charge. Try to placate them."

 

[Sexton Blake]

Long ago, I read THE CIRCUS OF DR. LAO (1935, Charles Finney) which has a lot of weird characters and things in it.

 

In the glossary, the Great God Yottle we learn is an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient lump of bronze.

 

[♦ Fuego ♦]

They made a movie of that book with Tony Randall (rather than an actual Chinese man) as the lead, but named it "The Seven Faces of Dr. Lao". I loved it as a kid.