Morality: to be an obdient slave, or to rebel and be a free human being?

[alreadyGone]

 

"SLAVES, OBEY YOUR MASTERS"
-Jesus Christ, Ephesians 6:5

 

Jesus man, are you serious?

 

Jesus also said, "you cannot serve more than one master".

How then is an enslaved person to give his obedience to a supposed Supreme Being, creator of all things, and also be obedient to an earthly master who gains that position of supremacy over the slave by virtue of being stronger or able to bring overwhelming force to bear on the slave?

 

And how was I ever entrained into belief in such silliness?

 

[walterpthefirst]

1 hour ago, alreadyGone said:

 

"SLAVES, OBEY YOUR MASTERS"
-Jesus Christ, Ephesians 6:5

 

Jesus man, are you serious?

 

Jesus also said, "you cannot serve more than one master".

How then is an enslaved person to give his obedience to a supposed Supreme Being, creator of all things, and also be obedient to an earthly master who gains that position of supremacy over the slave by virtue of being stronger or able to bring overwhelming force to bear on the slave?

 

And how was I ever entrained into belief in such silliness?

 

 

With all due respect, AG...

 

It's generally agreed among bible scholars that the author of the book of Ephesians was the apostle Paul and not Jesus of Nazareth.

 

So we would then be comparing the words of Jesus and Paul.

 

Not Jesus and Jesus.

 

But your point is well made and still stands.

 

A slave would be caught in the middle, trying and failing to obey contradictory commands from their earthly master and their heavenly one.

 

As you say, it's just silliness.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

11 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

It's generally agreed among bible scholars that the author of the book of Ephesians was the apostle Paul and not Jesus of Nazareth.

 

So we would then be comparing the words of Jesus and Paul.

 

Not Jesus and Jesus.

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness  2Timothy 3:16

 

Since jesus is god, and all scripture is god-breathed, then the actual authors would not matter.  It's all the words of god himself.

[alreadyGone]

Thank you Walter for clarification.

Of course, if we are to accept that the entire bible is authored in actuality by God, then it's all the same voice, no?

 

ETA: the Professor posted as I was typing this post and said it better than I..

 

As a believer I asked several ministers over time if the rebellion of the American colonists in the 18th century was a righteous act, or rebellion and defiance of the commandment of God (Romans 13: 1-5), and I got... silence.

In each case, nothing.

 

 

[sdelsolray]

Slavery was an accepted and moral practice in the societies from which the Bible books arose.

 

Not much else needs to be said.

[walterpthefirst]

20 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

Thank you Walter for clarification.

Of course, if we are to accept that the entire bible is authored in actuality by God, then it's all the same voice, no?

 

ETA: the Professor posted as I was typing this post and said it better than I..

 

As a believer I asked several ministers over time if the rebellion of the American colonists in the 18th century was a righteous act, or rebellion and defiance of the commandment of God (Romans 13: 1-5), and I got... silence.

In each case, nothing.

 

 

 

It's ok, alreadyGone (and you too, Prof),

 

You're both right of course, about the word of god and the Word of god.

 

It should all be the same, say the same thing and mean the same thing.

 

Assuming it all comes from one, unchanging and eternal source.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

47 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

It's ok, alreadyGone (and you too, Prof),

 

You're both right of course, about the word of god and the Word of god.

 

It should all be the same, say the same thing and mean the same thing.

 

Assuming it all comes from one, unchanging and eternal source.

 

Thank you.

 

Walter.

 

 

It only seems like it was written by a number of different authors with a number of different mindsets and a number of different agendas, giving it a number of different interpretations and possible meanings.  But, really, truly, Honest Injun, it were writ by the One True, Everlasting and Never Changing god Almighty Himself.  And he's the same yesterday, today, and forever and ever.  So, if he says slaves should obey their masters, then slaves should obey their masters.  But if he says nobody can serve two masters, well then slaves have to choose between going to hell for serving their masters instead of god, or going to hell for serving god and disobeying their masters.  Fucking free will, man; because he's mysterious and shit.

[alreadyGone]

On 4/16/2022 at 9:45 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It only seems like it was written by a number of different authors with a number of different mindsets and a number of different agendas, giving it a number of different interpretations and possible meanings.  But, really, truly, Honest Injun, it were writ by the One True, Everlasting and Never Changing god Almighty Himself.  And he's the same yesterday, today, and forever and ever.  So, if he says slaves should obey their masters, then slaves should obey their masters.  But if he says nobody can serve two masters, well then slaves have to choose between going to hell for serving their masters instead of god, or going to hell for serving god and disobeying their masters.  Fucking free will, man; because he's mysterious and shit.

 

You'll go to heck for that, you wait and see.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

22 hours ago, alreadyGone said:

 

You'll go to heck for that, you wait and see.

The words of god only seem to contradict themselves because you need the spirit to give you wisdom and discernment in correctly interpreting the words of god.  And not just any spirit; it has to be the holy spirit.  The word of god says to test the spirits to see if they're of god, which you can only do if you have the holy spirit, which is of god; and having the holy spirit is the only way of testing the holy spirit to see that it is of god.  Only the holy spirit can verify that it is the holy spirit of god; and, thus, it is also, by default, the only way to correctly interpret the words of god, which are also of god, through the holy spirit. 

 

I don't see why y'all godless heathens can't understand this.

[walterpthefirst]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

The words of god only seem to contradict themselves because you need the spirit to give you wisdom and discernment in correctly interpreting the words of god.  And not just any spirit; it has to be the holy spirit.  The word of god says to test the spirits to see if they're of god, which you can only do if you have the holy spirit, which is of god; and having the holy spirit is the only way of testing the holy spirit to see that it is of god.  Only the holy spirit can verify that it is the holy spirit of god; and, thus, it is also, by default, the only way to correctly interpret the words of god, which are also of god, through the holy spirit. 

 

I don't see why y'all godless heathens can't understand this.

 

...because god's mysterious and shit?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

24 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

...because god's mysterious and shit?

Exactly. 

[alreadyGone]

Professor,

You're making my head hurt.

[pantheory]

22 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

...because god's mysterious and shit?

 

It might be clearer to me if more proper English were used such as: ... because God is cabalistic and fecal matter?

[walterpthefirst]

I can rewrite it to make it more readable and accurate, Pantheory.

 

 

God is mysterious (because trying to reconcile the conflicting and contradictory imaginings of superstitious ancient people about him requires him to be so)

and shit (because his actions in the bible show him to be a narcissistic, spiteful, misogynistic, sadistic, cruel, inflexible, intolerant and vainglorious bully).

 

That better?

 

 

 

Walter.

 

 

[pantheory]

7 hours ago, pantheory said:

 

It might be clearer to me if more proper English were used such as: ... because God is cabalistic and fecal matter?

 

Walter,

 

"...because god's mysterious and shit? "

 

your posting was fine, clear, and got a laugh. I was hoping the same for mine above   Problem is, if you have to explain it, it ain't so funny.