Amethyst Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12498143/site/newsweek/ April 26, 2006 - I think I need to understand atheists better. I bear them no ill will. I don't think they need to be religious to be good, kind and charitable people, and I have no desire to debate or convert them. I do think they are wrong about the biggest question, “Are we alone?” and I will admit to occasionally viewing atheists with the kind of patient sympathy often shown to me by Christians who can't quite understand why the Good News of Jesus' death and resurrection has not reached me or my people. However, there is something I am missing about atheists: what I simply do not understand is why they are often so angry. So we disagree about God. I'm sometimes at odds with Yankee fans, people who like rap music and people who don't like animals, but I try to be civil. I don't know many religious folk who wake up thinking of new ways to aggravate atheists, but many people who do not believe in God seem to find the religion of their neighbors terribly offensive or oppressive, particularly if the folks next door are evangelical Christians. I just don't get it. This must sound condescending and a large generalization, and I don't mean it that way, but I am tempted to believe that behind atheist anger there are oftentimes uncomfortable personal histories. Perhaps their atheism was the result of the tragic death of a loved one, or an angry degrading sermon, or an insensitive eulogy, or an unfeeling castigation of lifestyle choices or perhaps something even worse. I would ask for forgiveness from the angry atheists who write to me if I thought it would help. Religion must remain an audacious, daring and, yes, uncomfortable assault on our desires to do what we want when we want to do it. All religions must teach a way to discipline our animal urges, to overcome racism and materialism, selfishness and arrogance and the sinful oppression of the most vulnerable and the most innocent among us. Some religious leaders obviously betray the teachings of the faith they claim to represent, but their sacred scriptures remain a critique of them and also of every thing we do to betray the better angels of our nature. But our world is better and kinder and more hopeful because of the daily sacrifice and witness of millions of pious people over thousands of years. To be called to a level of goodness and sacrifice so constantly and so patiently by a loving but demanding God may seem like a naive demand to achieve what is only a remote human possibility. However, such a vision need not be seen as a red flag to those who believe nothing. I can humbly ask whether my atheist brothers and sisters really believe that their lives are better, richer and more hopeful by clinging to Camus's existential despair: “The purpose of life is that it ends." I can agree to make peace with atheists whom I believe ask too little of life here on planet earth if they will agree to make peace with me and with other religious folk who perhaps have asked too much. I believe that the philosopher-rabbi Mordecai Kaplan was right when he said, “It is hell to live without hope, and religion saves people from hell.” I urge my atheist brothers and sisters to see things as Spinoza urged, sub specie aeternitatis—“under the perspective of eternity.” And to try a little positivity. Last Sunday I took two high-school girls to Cold Spring Labs to meet Dr. James Watson. One of the girls wants to be a research scientist, and the other has no idea yet, but I think she will be a great writer. I think they also both want boyfriends. I want them to stay smart and not dumb down to get a boy. Watson spoke and listened to the girls, and they left, I hope, proud about being smart. I know that Jim believes way more in Darwin than in Deuteronomy, but he also believes that at Cold Spring Labs the most important thing is not whether you are a man or a woman, not whether you believe in God. The most important thing, as he says, is “to get something done.” Now there's an atheist I can believe in. * * * * * Uh, okay, I'm not an atheist but how would you like it if there were articles constantly about "angry" Jews trying to stereotype you? You're not even trying to understand. You're just stereotyping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I say if you are not angry you are not paying attention, whether you are a Jew or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 He's also making the false assumption that religion makes the world a better place. Studies have shown that in regions where the religious population is higher, there is actually more crime. Not to mention, he's assuming that atheists have no purpose in life, no hope, and think that life has no meaning. Not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Something I have learned about myself over the years, before my deconversion even, is that when people keep on claiming that you're an angry person, you start acting like one. If people could stop claiming atheists to be angry all the time, we actually could start having meaningful conversations, but no, they have to reiterate the idea over and over again, and yes that causes frustration and anger in itself. So if you truly want to solve it, look at the hateful and angry religious people that keep regurgitate these false ideas in the sole purpose to create an emotional storm and then claim victory! And this article is the reason why anyone in our group should be angry. We're a pinned and picked out, targeted if you so want, for criticism. How we behave, what we think, what we believe or not, what we eat, if we should celebrate holidays or not, if we have any morals, if evolution and science is right or wrong, and through all this we have to defend what we are. We are not the aggressors, "they" are. The religious elite that think they have the right to point and single out other people of other beliefs (or unbeliefs). That is something to be angry about. So stop it, because You (religious person) are the cause to the problem you complain about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checkmate Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Well said, Hans. It's too bad the people reading MSNBC.MSN.COM won't read your words. Such is the problem with Xians. They have all their tidy little answers, provided in their tiny little world view, and they NEVER take the time to learn or hear what WE have to say. It's Strawman City with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Strawman City. That's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 Well said, Hans. It's too bad the people reading MSNBC.MSN.COM won't read your words. Such is the problem with Xians. They have all their tidy little answers, provided in their tiny little world view, and they NEVER take the time to learn or hear what WE have to say. It's Strawman City with them. There was a comment box on the side. If nothing else, it'll get read by someone before they delete it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I don't think the comment is to show on the site/page, but goes into his email only. Anyway, it's very misleading to assume the anger comes from "Why do nonbelievers seem to be threatened by the idea of God" as the subtitle suggests. It's not the idea of God that is threatening my life, it's the idea of organized religion demanding my following in my daily life. My choice of TV show, car, shampoo, smoking or not, life partner and politcal party have to be selected and approved by a religious cult, because they believe something and have majority. That is a threat to me and my liberty. I don't care what people believe, but I do care when their belief starts mandating my choices to be by their guidelines. And that's where he completely misses the point. Do I have the right to Not-Believe? Or is my Atheism a threat to the Religious Community? Does he write this article because the idea of a non existent God is a threat to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padreko Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 That segment was utterly retarded. Athiest people can be just as angry towards religious people as religious people are to people who support abortion. What were the signs saying Matthew Shepard was going to burn in hell, but pure stupidity? Or ruining funerals of soldiers from Iraq because of "GOD" hates rampent hoe-moe-seex-you-alls. Things like this make me angry towards religion. You don't have to be athiest to be mad at religion - you just need a brain. These people have no idea what it means to get work done - they just sit around and listen to some guy preach every weekend and say a-men and hollelujah. It would be more productive for them to spend that hour or two doing some community service activity as opposed to listening to some worthless chatterbox. Furthermore, what is it that people supposedly need to hope for besides good medicine, good food, and good sex and whatever else it is we like to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I'm not angry at the non-existent entity known as God, any more than I am angry at Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. However, I am angry at self-righteous frauds who want to force me to live my life according to their so-called morals. If religious people like this Rabbi would mind their own business, I wouldn't really give a damn what they did or did not believe. I only give a damn because they are meddlesome busybodies who are constantly trying to tell me what to do, or - even worse - trying to get the government to point a gun to my head and force me to what they want me to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Here's another take on the issue: Why can't I be angry, when God (according to the Bible) have been angry over and over again? Aren't we supposed to be in his image? He's supposed to be angry and it's acceptable, but we're not supposed to be? Such hypocrisy! Sounds like us humans are held to higher standard than God himself. If we can achieve it, would we become a higher moral character than him (she/it)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Here's another take on the issue: Why can't I be angry, when God (according to the Bible) have been angry over and over again. Aren't we supposed to be in his image? He's supposed to be angry and it's acceptable, but we're not supposed to be? Such hypocrisy! For that matter, how many times have you heard xtians say that they felt a "righteous anger for the Laaaard"? Oh, it's OK for religious people to be angry at us heathens, but when we get angry at them, well, that's just plain "wrong." Agreed: they're hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Did you see my addition? I added an extra comment after. Should we be held to a higher standard than God and Christians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Did you see my addition? I added an extra comment after. Should we be held to a higher standard than God and Christians? Looks like our edits crossed over the Ethernet! Of course, you know christians will hold us to a higher standard of conduct than they hold themselves. After all, they're "saved," so they get to sin and be forgiven an endless number of times. That makes them "different." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 So true. They can sin and get forgiveness by being cleansed by the blood, while we have to suffer the eternal damnation for every little sinful thought. Go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 UUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHH!!! PEOPLE LIKE THIS PISS ME OFF SOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!! GAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!! Is that angry enough? [edited for ease of reading thread; not for content] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Is that angry enough? [/b] I think you left out a few R's and H's. Now I'm ashamed of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pitchu Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Poor Rabbi Gellman. His opinion piece probably made a ton of atheist Jews very angry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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