Never was a true Ex-Christian

[midniterider]

(mood: questioning, snarky, smile on my face and a bit of seriousness) 

 

Why do 'ex-Christians' hang out here year after year talking about the religion they left? Quoting bible scripture they don't like as defense against other bible scripture they dont like?

 

My in-law is a fundy and wiggles Jesus into every conversation. How many times do you as an ex-C think about Jesus during the day? Maybe we never really left the fold. Maybe we can't quit Jesus? We're just hanging on? 

 

I recently got tired of the daily blast of hate, anger, and general drama from another ex-c forum on the net so I unsubscribed. Unfortunately over there forums are like a sticky booger...they hang around even after you flick em. 

 

Sure there's a bit of altruism, helping the 'lurkers'. And of course the Lion's Den generates tons of text.... Not saying what anyone does is wrong, I just have the recurring feeling that if I really don't like something then why the fuck do I keep talking about it? 

 

It's kind of like talking to your ex on the phone every day. No, thanks. 

 

Anyway, there's my uplifting drivel to brighten your day.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

There used to be a recurring theme in the church I grew up in, a phrase that was used so often as to lose its impact: "If only one person gets saved, then this was all worth it."  Evangelists would say it toward the end of their message, just before the altar call.  The production team would say it at the end of an Easter Passion reenactment that had cost into the tens of thousands.  That sentiment has stayed with me over the years, impacted my outlook on life in ways that the church folk never imagined and certainly did not intend.  I don't know what impact I might have on lurkers; none have ever come forward to tell me.  A few members over the years have mentioned a remark I made or a thought I put into their minds; but that's about it.  None of that really matters to me, though; because that thought, always lingering in the back of my mind is: "If just one person can be helped in their journey by something I say, then it will all be worth it."  It doesn't matter if I ever know about it or not; I think about it, and that's enough for me. 

 

I faced my deconversion pretty much alone, wrestled with my thoughts and fears, tried to figure out how to rebuild my shattered life, plunged into a pit of disillusionment and despair for a while.  I never really expected there would be anyone else who would understand it; so I never reached out or looked for any help.  I just pushed my self-reliant ass along as I've always done.  But, when I look back over it now, I realize how much easier it would have been had I had a companion willing to walk the path, or even just a part of the path, alongside me.  As the Irish say, "Two shorten the road."  I'd hate to think that I had some little nugget of wisdom, experience, strength, or hope that could have made all the difference in someone else's world; and I held onto it because I wasn't in the mood to talk about jesus or the church.  Sure, most members come here, get what they need from us, and then go on along their merry way; but the few of us who've stayed here over the years, do so because we believe in what we're doing. 

 

I do, anyway.

[midniterider]

Thanks, Prof. The question about why I keep coming here pops into my head periodically, though lately I gave been interested in reducing anxiety and creating more peace inside my head. 

 

One step involves reduction of news media intake. I unsubbed from the other ex-c forum because it was nonstop bitching about Xian relatives, friends, coworkers driving people crazy. I was offering helpful tidbits all the time. It's just one of several negative thought items that was bringing me down, though. 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, midniterider said:

Thanks, Prof. The question about why I keep coming here pops into my head periodically, though lately I gave been interested in reducing anxiety and creating more peace inside my head. 

 

One step involves reduction of news media intake. I unsubbed from the other ex-c forum because it was nonstop bitching about Xian relatives, friends, coworkers driving people crazy. I was offering helpful tidbits all the time. It's just one of several negative thought items that was bringing me down, though. 

 

 

I quit an agnostic website a few years ago because it was nothing more than an echo chamber.  I get bored easily; so the diversity of opinions and personalities we have here is refreshing for me.

[pantheory]

On 8/23/2022 at 7:43 AM, midniterider said:

(mood: questioning, snarky, smile on my face and a bit of seriousness) 

 

Why do 'ex-Christians' hang out here year after year talking about the religion they left? Quoting bible scripture they don't like as defense against other bible scripture they dont like?

 

My in-law is a fundy and wiggles Jesus into every conversation. How many times do you as an ex-C think about Jesus during the day? Maybe we never really left the fold. Maybe we can't quit Jesus? We're just hanging on? 

 

I recently got tired of the daily blast of hate, anger, and general drama from another ex-c forum on the net so I unsubscribed. Unfortunately over there forums are like a sticky booger...they hang around even after you flick em. 

 

Sure there's a bit of altruism, helping the 'lurkers'. And of course the Lion's Den generates tons of text.... Not saying what anyone does is wrong, I just have the recurring feeling that if I really don't like something then why the fuck do I keep talking about it? 

 

It's kind of like talking to your ex on the phone every day. No, thanks. 

 

Anyway, there's my uplifting drivel to brighten your day.

 

I guess it's simply a matter of definition. If you once believed in Christianity and now you don't. if so then you are now an Ex-Christian. There's also a big difference if one was a deep-rooted Christian, a fundamentalist, were "Born Again" etc. I was never any of these. Upon reading the bible as a teenager I realized how ridiculous the book really was. I feel I was never indoctrinated so I have no hard feelings, and  it was not that hard for me to leave Christianity excepting for my mother thinking that I was an educated fool.  I now view all religions of the world like Greek Mythology and never look back.

[Joshpantera]

10 hours ago, midniterider said:

(mood: questioning, snarky, smile on my face and a bit of seriousness) 

 

Why do 'ex-Christians' hang out here year after year talking about the religion they left? Quoting bible scripture they don't like as defense against other bible scripture they dont like?

 

My in-law is a fundy and wiggles Jesus into every conversation. How many times do you as an ex-C think about Jesus during the day? Maybe we never really left the fold. Maybe we can't quit Jesus? We're just hanging on? 

 

I recently got tired of the daily blast of hate, anger, and general drama from another ex-c forum on the net so I unsubscribed. Unfortunately over there forums are like a sticky booger...they hang around even after you flick em. 

 

Sure there's a bit of altruism, helping the 'lurkers'. And of course the Lion's Den generates tons of text.... Not saying what anyone does is wrong, I just have the recurring feeling that if I really don't like something then why the fuck do I keep talking about it? 

 

It's kind of like talking to your ex on the phone every day. No, thanks. 

 

Anyway, there's my uplifting drivel to brighten your day.

 

I haven't really gotten involved with other ex-C communities outside of this one. Outside of this I stick to the philosophy and mystical groups. 

 

 

 

 

[Joshpantera]

4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I quit an agnostic website a few years ago because it was nothing more than an echo chamber.  I get bored easily; so the diversity of opinions and personalities we have here is refreshing for me.

 

I had dropped in on a "Synchronicity Group," on facebook. Then dumped it for the same reasons. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Now that we aren't getting many ex-christians needing support, I am also am questioning why I keep coming here.

[nontheistpilgrim]

The reason I come here every day is that I feel the need for 'community' and connot find it anywhere else (put simply). On-line is not ideal but it's helpful for me. After over a dozen years I'm still defining what I think, moving from non-theist to atheist.....which is why I don't post much. I value the discussions (and love those when an authentic christian comes here!)

So, thanks all.

[duderonomy]

Dear God, look at us.

 

Spinning around and around on this pale blue dot lost in the vastness of space. Trying to hold on for dear life to a life we all know will end so soon and trying to make sense of it all.

 

Amen

[Henndigo]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:04 PM, nontheistpilgrim said:

The reason I come here every day is that I feel the need for 'community' and connot find it anywhere else (put simply). On-line is not ideal but it's helpful for me. After over a dozen years I'm still defining what I think, moving from non-theist to atheist.....which is why I don't post much. I value the discussions (and love those when an authentic christian comes here!)

So, thanks all.

Same, it’s a community thing for me - to give support and being interested in the thoughts of others who have travelled a similar path.   I don’t find I am particularly angry at all, I had some happy memories of my old religious life.  I just have moved on.  This is not to invalidate those who have suffered tremendous damage however and for them going into the anger stage is a part of coming to terms with what happened to them.

When I look at how extreme religious people are now becoming, I am glad I am done with it.  

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 8/23/2022 at 10:43 AM, midniterider said:

Why do 'ex-Christians' hang out here year after year talking about the religion they left? Quoting bible scripture they don't like as defense against other bible scripture they dont like

I had to take a few days and give your post some thought. It raises some good questions. 

 

Honestly I can't say I don't like the scripture. I almost like it more now than when I believed. A lot of the time when I studied as a believer I came across scripture that confused me. It forced me to ask questions. I saw contradictions and went through the whole cycle as a Christian of making excuses, coming up with my own "interpretations" etc. Yall would have hated me as a Christian. I would of been a lot like the guys we discuss with in the lions den. But one thing I always prayed for was to find the truth in the word. And now that I've actually found the truth of the word it all makes much more sense. Its like going back in time and putting yourself in an ancient believers shoes. Now that I've read secular studies and various discoveries they have made like the Ugarit tablets and dead sea scrolls I know why those contradictions are there. I know why they wrote a flat earth creation in genesis. I know who the "sons of God" were originally. Secular research has really brought the Bible into focus. Rightfully so, because the Bible, judeo-christian and muslim beliefs are a huge part of our history and need to be understood. 

 

On 8/23/2022 at 10:43 AM, midniterider said:

How many times do you as an ex-C think about Jesus during the day? Maybe we never really left the fold. Maybe we can't quit Jesus? We're just hanging on? 

Nah I really don't think about Jesus much. I don't even know for sure if he actually existed anymore. I think more about the actual writers of the Bible. Wondering who they were. Was Paul the Joseph Smith of his time and Jesus his angel with golden tablets? Why did those that forged books in apostles names make their forgeries? Why was revelations even included in the cannon? And was that guy on opium at the time?  

 

On 8/23/2022 at 10:43 AM, midniterider said:

Sure there's a bit of altruism, helping the 'lurkers'. And of course the Lion's Den generates tons of text.... Not saying what anyone does is wrong

 

For me, my deconversion wasn't pretty. I went through all the stages of grief. Hated myself for awhile for letting myself be dooped for so long and even more so for having pretty much joined a former cult with a checkered past. I didn't have anyone in my life that wasn't Christian. So I was alone. My wife went the opposite direction and we eventually divorced. And we are still together. (Complicated is an understatement lmao ) Its been a damn roller coaster for sure. 

 

Thankfully I found this site. Yall have seen my whole deconversion play out, pretty much. This site helped me out so much during that time. I felt like the world was against me but the members here really help me pick up the pieces. I wasn't the first and I'm sure I'm not the last. If I can do anything to help someone going through what I went through then its worth it. For me. That makes this site a necessity. We know that the church is dwindling. So it stands to reason there will be more people that will need some sense of community and support atleast until the unbelieving population grows some more. And what we do in the lions den is good practice for what we could be faced with in the real world. It gives us a chance to defend our stance against bible based religions. There are plenty of old school bible thumpers that would love the beat the lord back in our heads if they could. We've already seen several individuals that continually struggle with deconversion and indoctrination. 

 

I also have this thought. I feel that we may be in the beginning stages of a cultural change concerning religion. And I think eventually this Era may be studied by historians and they will be digging through the digital footprints on the net for information. What we are doing here now, may help them understand how this change really took off in the future. That makes it worth it for me as well. It may be wishful thinking, but its my wishful thinking  

On 8/23/2022 at 10:43 AM, midniterider said:

I just have the recurring feeling that if I really don't like something then why the fuck do I keep talking about it? 

It is a big part of your life. How can you not talk about it? Those experiences are still meaningful.... just in a different way. 

 

Best Regards and thanks for the post,

 

Dark Bishop

[◊ Weezer ◊]

I also believe we may be in the beginning of a cultural change regarding religion.  But it is leaving a void and what is going to fill the void isn't clear, which concerns me.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

9 hours ago, Weezer said:

I also believe we may be in the beginning of a cultural change regarding religion.  But it is leaving a void and what is going to fill the void isn't clear, which concerns me.

There is really no way to tell. I doubt that any of us will see the fruition of this movement in our lifetimes. But I hope it is a change for the betterment of humanity. Religion really holds the world back from moving forward. 

 

One of the things I worry about is that when religion becomes the minority what will happen? 

 

I can definitely see how scriptures in revelations, connected with various scriptures spread throughout the Bible, could be used to rally extremist Christians. literally starting a war against those they perceive as "the devil", "the great whore of babylon", "the beast", "mammon", or "the false prophets". 

 

For my decendants sake I hope its a peaceful fade into the books of history and a new Renaissance kind of period. Who knows really? I never would have thought that there would be a flat earth movement in my lifetime so yeah,........ lol. It could be anything at this point. 

[TABA]

10 hours ago, Weezer said:

I also believe we may be in the beginning of a cultural change regarding religion.  But it is leaving a void and what is going to fill the void isn't clear, which concerns me.

No doubt bad religion causes all kinds of harm, but bad religion is also a symptom as much as a cause: it’s a symptom of human nature.  And that doesn’t change much, unfortunately.  We can do better than christianity for sure, but we can also do worse.  It’s always been a minority of people who are prepared to question dogma, to swim against the tide, to ask awkward questions.  Politics is definitely becoming more like a religion for many people, and that’s not a compliment.  

[midniterider]

12 hours ago, Weezer said:

I also believe we may be in the beginning of a cultural change regarding religion.  But it is leaving a void and what is going to fill the void isn't clear, which concerns me.

 

Sleeping in on Sunday, I suspect.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

2 hours ago, TABA said:

No doubt bad religion causes all kinds of harm

This is not true:

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 hours ago, TABA said:

 

  Politics is definitely becoming more like a religion for many people, and that’s not a compliment.  

 

I am reading the book, SAPIENS: A BRIEF HISTORY OF HUMANKIND,  which makes that point.  He talks about the fine line between politics and religion and different idealogies such as capitapism, socialism, communism, etc.  He sees them as forms of religion.  I  highly recommend the book which has a whole section about religion and how convaluted it is.  I am almost to the part where he predicts some directions mankind may take in the future.  He also makes an interesting argument about how our fantasies (myths) are necessary for bonding together large numbers of people in a society, and how these myths are colliding as we drift toward a global society.  I'm anxious to see what he predicts will happen.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

7 minutes ago, Weezer said:

I am reading the book, SAPIENS: A BRIEF HISTORY OF HUMANKIND,  which makes that point.  He talks about the fine line between politics and religion and different idealogies such as capitapism, socialism, communism, etc.  He sees them as forms of religion.  I  highly recommend the book which has a whole section about religion and how convaluted it is.  I am almost to the part where he predicts some directions mankind may take in the future.  He also makes an interesting argument about how our fantasies (myths) are necessary for bonding together large numbers of people in a society, and how these myths are colliding as we drift toward a global society.  I'm anxious to see what he predicts will happen.

I will have to check that one out. Sounds interesting. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

This is getting a little off topic, but something else mentioned is that Buddhism started out as a philosophy, but people turned it into a religion, some even praying to the founder.  And he sees Buddhism as one of the more healthy religions.  It seems that many people prefer fantasy and magic over reality. HA!  looking at what is still going on today, our moral evolution has a l-o-n-g way to go!

[TABA]

9 hours ago, Weezer said:

I am reading the book, SAPIENS: A BRIEF HISTORY OF HUMANKIND,

 

 

9 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

I will have to check that one out. Sounds interesting. 

Be careful, DB!  I know one or two people who started to deconvert after reading that book!  Danger, Danger!!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

5 hours ago, TABA said:

Be careful, DB!  I know one or two people who started to deconvert after reading that book!  Danger, Danger!!

 

It pretty well "lays the cards on the table" regarding human and religious development.

[Henndigo]

18 hours ago, Weezer said:

I am reading the book, SAPIENS: A BRIEF HISTORY OF HUMANKIND,  which makes that point.  He talks about the fine line between politics and religion and different idealogies such as capitapism, socialism, communism, etc.  He sees them as forms of religion.  I  highly recommend the book which has a whole section about religion and how convaluted it is.  I am almost to the part where he predicts some directions mankind may take in the future.  He also makes an interesting argument about how our fantasies (myths) are necessary for bonding together large numbers of people in a society, and how these myths are colliding as we drift toward a global society.  I'm anxious to see what he predicts will happen.

I enjoyed that book too.  You may also be interested in The Better Angels of our Nature by Steven Pinker as well which chronicles how much humankind has changed as society became less violent and less religious.  Even today’s Christian’s if they were to back to the past, would feel totally out of place because society has changed so much.

For all the problems we have in the world today, I am glad to have been born in this day and age!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

   The program wouldn't let me click on another "like" button.

[TABA]

On 8/27/2022 at 3:13 PM, DarkBishop said:

Honestly I can't say I don't like the scripture. I almost like it more now than when I believed.

The great Bible scholar Robert M. Price - previously a christian and now an atheist - has often said that he loves the Bible, not because it’s the word of god but because of its human origins, which make it all the more fascinating.  

 

On 8/27/2022 at 3:13 PM, DarkBishop said:

Secular research has really brought the Bible into focus. Rightfully so, because the Bible, judeo-christian and muslim beliefs are a huge part of our history and need to be understood.

When you stop accepting it as the word of god, without error or contradiction, you become free to explore and to understand it and its origins, and the motivations of its many writers and translators.  I find that much more rewarding than when I previously struggled - only half convincing myself - to make it all line up.