willybilly30 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 ok ever religion that i know of says gods watching and protecting and guiding people. i am starting to think thats bogus. i was watching a newsshow and it talked about a priest accused of murdering a nun on an alter slicing a cross in her chest and hes also accused of molesting children. i mean were was god? did god just watch and say oh the nun will be with me anyway shes old its her time to go or what about the kids what the hell was god doing? im sure some christians gonna say catholics are sinners blabla bla.... but! i got more stuff here. i like too look up news and this isnt just a catholic thing and even if catholics are sinners thats pretty sorry of god too think well their sinners ill let it slide dont you think? were was god i cant help but wonder that what was god doing or thinking. ok one thought lead to another heres the other thought. where is god? hes not sitting over earth or an airplane,rocket or something would of seen him, hes not in the ground or a oil drill worker wouldve seen him, hes not underwater or a submarine wouldve seen him. proving god is impossible seems like your just left with excuses oh maybe god is invisible, maybe god dont want to be known, maybe god has a reason to let people molest kids and kill nuns maybe theirs a lesson to learn. teaching lessons like that is sick. who is god? with all the religions, pictures, statues, beliefs its ovious no one knows and its all a big guessing game. why dont god show itself what possible reason could it have for not showing it self. i used to have a good reason to believe in god id say were did the universe come from? well the problem with saying it came from god is i have no proof what so ever. im just making up a reason. you know what would solve all this? an interview with god but god never has yet to show up and iv read several testemonies of people who prayed for it. and leads to other thoughts why am i always answering prayers, spells, giving guidance, whatever it always seems im doing all the work. or if im sick and pray for healing i still got to take medicine and wait to get well and i have yet to do a spell or pray and something happen without any effort on my part. god either dont exist or dont care or maybe gods like a animal they have the babies then leave them when their old enough to leave the nest. i dont know. i dont know what to think anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Yeah that's at the boat where I'm at. I found this coin before my deconversion and it was a tarnished religious coin, it had this verse from Romans that said that anyone who calls out in the name of the lord shall be saved and on the other side it had a picture of an Eagle and some other verses to look up. Anyway, I found it and I have to this day, I don't know why it doesn't do me any good and yet I keep it. Then again that state is known for its religiousness. I don't know what to think sometimes when it comes to god/supreme being. The xtians say that god is there but because of free will he lets mankind do both good and evil. Like you I get frustrated so much, and I just want to know the endless mysterious questions but they answers never came. Not in religion or out of it. I used to think that I found that coin because God "arranged" it. What idioticy. I don't know, sometimes when I look at how complex the world is, the universe, and the personalities of humans and animals I think "well maybe god does really exist." But beyond that, god doesn't do anything. So what's the point? I don't know I think you just kind of have to go with the flow and let these things ride out, not even religion can answer all these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 is the coin like a good luck kind of thing? i have stuff like that i used to carry a buckeye in my pocket cause it supposingly brought good luck my life was no diffrent before i carried and the thing broke in my pocket lol. i read alot of stuff on magic i have crystals, dreamcathers all sorts of stuff but i usually get dissapointed in the end. im beginning to think people and all life is on their own. my views on god is so conflicted i see what might say it exists, i see stuff were i think god might of helped but then i find out i was wrong. i dont think im ready to give up the idea of god totally but im leaning toward the deist concept i guess that god made the universe then left it alone and dont interfere in it. Yeah that's at the boat where I'm at. I found this coin before my deconversion and it was a tarnished religious coin, it had this verse from Romans that said that anyone who calls out in the name of the lord shall be saved and on the other side it had a picture of an Eagle and some other verses to look up. Anyway, I found it and I have to this day, I don't know why it doesn't do me any good and yet I keep it. Then again that state is known for its religiousness. I don't know what to think sometimes when it comes to god/supreme being. The xtians say that god is there but because of free will he lets mankind do both good and evil. Like you I get frustrated so much, and I just want to know the endless mysterious questions but they answers never came. Not in religion or out of it. I used to think that I found that coin because God "arranged" it. What idioticy. I don't know, sometimes when I look at how complex the world is, the universe, and the personalities of humans and animals I think "well maybe god does really exist." But beyond that, god doesn't do anything. So what's the point? I don't know I think you just kind of have to go with the flow and let these things ride out, not even religion can answer all these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 The manner in which divine intervention/prayer/etc is taught by Xianity is poisonous. There is no reason to believe that if an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good god exists that it wouldn't hook us up at every turn. No such being could logically or morally permit suffering to happen. People need to think outside the box. Those who aren't content to posit there are no gods at all need to step away from the conventional Xian-flavored theme of looking at gods and the "supernatural" and so on. To me, I've been long theorizing that magic and the like does exist, but some people are naturally more proficient with it than others, and hence if they pray or make spells, they'll have a better chance of a successful working than average folks. It's like math - some of us are naturally better with numbers and some of us just aren't - but that doesn't invalidate mathematics. Why can similar thinking not be applied to magic or the like? Why must everything be defined by Xian standards? When you compare something to the phony, impossible standards set by Xianity, denial always seems like the more rational option. The same applies to gods, too. I believe that gods exist, but that they are simply unable to interfere much in the world. Otherwise, there would be proof of a real, tangible, physical nature. As to why they can't meddle much in the world - who knows? Perhaps the universe has simply grown too big for them to handle, or perhaps there are laws of nature that govern that sort of thing, and we simply haven't discovered them, yet. It would be the height of arrogance to posit that we've got it all figured out as of this date in history just as it would be the height of foolishness to insist on defining everything by flawed Xianish standards. If humans never think outside the box, unanswered questions are all we'll have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 I think its pretty devasting when you first realise God is not the all powerful intervening personal God you were taught. It left me feeling lost and alone although i wasn't If all you need is emotional help .. then belief can work on that level but once you want something more concrete - ie actual proof of his divine intervention - like curing a kid from cancer etc then its clear he does not work that way I have come to think of God a spiritual connection that can help you deal with life but not by actual intervention - more by your own efforts to get in tune with yourself and the good stuff in life But the first awareness of God not actually looking down and protecting you personally is not nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Willy, You have discovered the "problem of Evil" which doesn't disprove a god of some sort, but it does disprove ChristianGod. Logical problem of evil 1. God is omnipotent (premise) 2. God is benevolent (premise) 3. Benevolent beings are opposed to all evil. (premise) 4. God is opposed to all evil. (conclusion from 2 and 3) 5. God can eliminate evil completely. (conclusion from 1) 5.1 Whatever end result of suffering, God can bring about by ways which do not include suffering. (conclusion from 1) 5.2 God has no reason not to eliminate evil (conclusion from 5.1) 6. God will eliminate evil completely. (conclusion from 4, 5 and 5.2) 7. Evil exists, has existed, and probably will always exist. (premise) 8. Items 6 and 7 are contradictory; therefore the premises are wrong 9. Therefore, premises are false, or God does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 maybe magic is sort of like muscles and i havent strenthened it enough yet i mean it works sometimes but not as good as iv seen in other people. maybe working with magic is like working with mathmatics with alot of practice and learning you get better. im starting to think that has more to do with the person. i am starting to think maybe god is more like nature is like when a cat has kittens as soon as they grow up or leave the spiritworld to become human in a spiritual sense. they are on their own. maybe magic is like the claws on a cat the more they develop and practice using them the better they get. i hope this makes sense its the best example i could think of explaining were my thinkings headed. The manner in which divine intervention/prayer/etc is taught by Xianity is poisonous. There is no reason to believe that if an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-good god exists that it wouldn't hook us up at every turn. No such being could logically or morally permit suffering to happen. People need to think outside the box. Those who aren't content to posit there are no gods at all need to step away from the conventional Xian-flavored theme of looking at gods and the "supernatural" and so on. To me, I've been long theorizing that magic and the like does exist, but some people are naturally more proficient with it than others, and hence if they pray or make spells, they'll have a better chance of a successful working than average folks. It's like math - some of us are naturally better with numbers and some of us just aren't - but that doesn't invalidate mathematics. Why can similar thinking not be applied to magic or the like? Why must everything be defined by Xian standards? When you compare something to the phony, impossible standards set by Xianity, denial always seems like the more rational option. The same applies to gods, too. I believe that gods exist, but that they are simply unable to interfere much in the world. Otherwise, there would be proof of a real, tangible, physical nature. As to why they can't meddle much in the world - who knows? Perhaps the universe has simply grown too big for them to handle, or perhaps there are laws of nature that govern that sort of thing, and we simply haven't discovered them, yet. It would be the height of arrogance to posit that we've got it all figured out as of this date in history just as it would be the height of foolishness to insist on defining everything by flawed Xianish standards. If humans never think outside the box, unanswered questions are all we'll have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 maybe god is like a football coach he will motivate you and tell you how to play. but god isnt going to play the game for you or jump on the field when you about to screw up and loose the game. thats how it seems to be for me. this makes more sense to me the more i think about it prayer/spells give me energy to keep going and motivation. I think its pretty devasting when you first realise God is not the all powerful intervening personal God you were taught. It left me feeling lost and alone although i wasn't If all you need is emotional help .. then belief can work on that level but once you want something more concrete - ie actual proof of his divine intervention - like curing a kid from cancer etc then its clear he does not work that way I have come to think of God a spiritual connection that can help you deal with life but not by actual intervention - more by your own efforts to get in tune with yourself and the good stuff in life But the first awareness of God not actually looking down and protecting you personally is not nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Your thinking sounds good, willy. I especially like the coach analogy. It makes more sense, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 According to christian mythology, in the situation you (first post) describe, not only was god watching, he wrote the whole "script" for the scene too. How anyone could worship a sick fuck like that is beyond me. There's the "free will" excuse, which isn't supported by the bible of course... but even if it was a valid excuse, why is it that it is the murderer or molester who has the free will to kill or rape? Why isn't the victim free to choose to be raped or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 is the coin like a good luck kind of thing? i have stuff like that i used to carry a buckeye in my pocket cause it supposingly brought good luck my life was no diffrent before i carried and the thing broke in my pocket lol. i read alot of stuff on magic i have crystals, dreamcathers all sorts of stuff but i usually get dissapointed in the end. im beginning to think people and all life is on their own. my views on god is so conflicted i see what might say it exists, i see stuff were i think god might of helped but then i find out i was wrong. i dont think im ready to give up the idea of god totally but im leaning toward the deist concept i guess that god made the universe then left it alone and dont interfere in it. Well I still have it, I found it when I was pretty emotional and somehow kept it. I don't know deconverting is a weird experience. Like I still listen to xtian music because I like it. I like listening to Rebecca St. James, even though the lyrics are about god and stuff. Although a lot of the songs are vague and can be applied to anything else like boyfriends. I'm not a huge believer in luck. The coin I found was just a religious coin, it was just "luck" or coincidence. I think that no matter a person's belief, they'll look for anything to confirm their beliefs. Like if a person believes in luck and they have something positive happen to them they might attribute it to their luck. I don't know why these things happen willy. That's why you've got to use your common sense, that's why we have brains. I think that if there's a god then he expects us to not be stupid and to use them. Why else would we have them? To use them, just like a stomach breaks down food and your bladder and colon empty out waste, the brain is there to think. You have to watch out for yourself, some naive xtians say "god's looking out for me" but you have to look out for yourself after all you're only mortal. Even if god came down and explained why things happened, I don't know if it would be a comfort to me or you. Because things still hurt, we have feelings and emotions and life still hurts. You're right about the coach analogy, god can't live YOUR life for you. You have to do that. Well I don't think this post help but that's my 2 cents. Take care of yourself willy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willybilly30 Posted April 30, 2006 Author Share Posted April 30, 2006 id like to see how christians rationalise it happened in a church of all places. to me this throws christian mythology out the window. the free will thing never made much sense i never read were any freewill was given in the bible seems more like threats. According to christian mythology, in the situation you (first post) describe, not only was god watching, he wrote the whole "script" for the scene too. How anyone could worship a sick fuck like that is beyond me. There's the "free will" excuse, which isn't supported by the bible of course... but even if it was a valid excuse, why is it that it is the murderer or molester who has the free will to kill or rape? Why isn't the victim free to choose to be raped or not? very good points. i think it makes more sense that youd be expected to look out for yourself cause we have brains to think with. I don't know why these things happen willy. That's why you've got to use your common sense, that's why we have brains. I think that if there's a god then he expects us to not be stupid and to use them. Why else would we have them? To use them, just like a stomach breaks down food and your bladder and colon empty out waste, the brain is there to think. You have to watch out for yourself, some naive xtians say "god's looking out for me" but you have to look out for yourself after all you're only mortal. Even if god came down and explained why things happened, I don't know if it would be a comfort to me or you. Because things still hurt, we have feelings and emotions and life still hurts. You're right about the coach analogy, god can't live YOUR life for you. You have to do that. Well I don't think this post help but that's my 2 cents. Take care of yourself willy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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