How Religion Began.

[Bob the Unbeliever]

How Religion Began.

 

A Fable.

 

Once long ago, there was a Very Lazy caveman. His name was Oog. He detested needing to go out and hunt for food every day, as it was both Hard Work and Dangerous.

 

However, Oog had a very good imagination. He was also a pretty persuasive speaker.

 

Thus, Oog discovered that he had a Talent for Explaining Why Things Happened. Oog was just imagining things out of his head, but the others in his tribe began to come to Oog to Explain Why. Why This? and Why That? and so on.

 

Oog quickly discovered that he could ask for a favor in return for these explanations ... and people began bringing Oog food, and he would Explain.

 

Oog liked this new arrangement. All he had to do was lie around all day long thinking up new Explanations for Stuff, and people would give him food!

 

Oog had invented the Worlds First Profession: Professional Liar. (Or Shaman/Priest/Clergy, if you prefer the vernacular.)

 

Thus Oog became fat and even more lazy.

 

This went on for many years.

 

Then, one day, the son of the Chief was killed, as a direct result of an Explanation of Oog's. The Chief grew quite peeved about it, and immediately had Oog killed.

 

But, it was Too Late: Oog's "God Virus" idea had taken hold in the tribe. Soon, Oog's son was Explaining Things ...

 

...

 

And So, the Present Day: We still have fat and lazy folk that will, for a price, Explain Things with a Convincing Voice.

 

And THAT is how the God Virus infected the Human Race.

[Lycorth]

[insomniac]

oog wouldve made a great college student, his bs'ing skills are amazing.

[Guest maeon3]

Regardless of oog's lies, the questions he attempted to answer still remain. I suppose the questions he attempted to answer were: Why am I here and what's my purpose?

 

Granted there are more liars then truth tellers. A subgoal of the game your playing/living is differentiating between the two.

 

You are to segragate the liars from the truth tellers and to be consistant and follow your beliefs to the logical conclusion be it Theism, Atheism or other.

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Regardless of oog's lies, the questions he attempted to answer still remain. I suppose the questions he attempted to answer were: Why am I here and what's my purpose?

 

No, Ogg was making it up as he went along - just any religious initiator does/did.

 

The real answer to questions can never come from within one's imagination - but must come from observation of the world around us.

 

Granted there are more liars then truth tellers. A subgoal of the game your playing/living is differentiating between the two.

 

You are to segragate the liars from the truth tellers and to be consistant and follow your beliefs to the logical conclusion be it Theism, Atheism or other.

 

There is little or no logic in Theism, any flavor, because one must make a leap of faith to get started.

 

That leap forms the basis of everything that follows - and the direction can literally be anywhere.

 

However, agnosticism, begins with complete doubt of everything, and works up from there logically.

 

The only real leap of faith required is that your 5 senses relate to reality as it truly is. It's not a bad premis, and is required for Theism as well. But, unlike Theisim, this is the only faith statement needed - the next steps are all observational.

[Guest maeon3]

I need a definition for "imagination". It's bothering me.

 

Wikipedia: Imagination is, in general, the power or process of producing mental images and ideas.

Dictionary.com: The formation of a mental image of something that is neither perceived as real nor present to the senses.

 

I believe your a bit rash on saying imagination can never answer questions. I claim it's rarely trustworthy to answer questions in and of itself. However if the imagination is supported by guess and check verification system known to be trustworthy then he may evolve his idea into something that resembles the truth after many generations. his idea evolves so more people bring him food.

 

I must be picky, because I know that humans are "imagination machines" and we can do nothing but imagine. When you say that imagination causes no answers, then I think "woah, ergo humans can't answer anything". Thats not right.

 

Everyone can learn from oog. he's simply omitting the 2nd step of the imagine / verification process. All knowledge written in books was first the wild imagination of some oog that stood the sand blasting of rational thought or scientific method.

 

I think everyone should utilize this method on spiritual matters. I imagine things from a religous perspective, but then subject my imagination to the rigors of science. If it stands, then I claim "This is the best I can come up with". If people attack me for it, then wonderful. You tell me about your faith, I'll tell you about mine.

[Ouroboros]

My definition of God: he doesn't exist (yet).

[Gaunilon]

Couple of questions for Bob the Unbeleiver:

Not to be a caviller, but isn't your post an example of imagining an explanation for something you didn't observe because it supports your preferences?

 

Also, how would one explain people who insisted on offering explanations without profit? Given the name of this site the obvious example would be that Jewish carpenter guy who started a religion so he could live as a nomad for three years and then get tortured and killed.

(and then why did his followers pick up that particular torch and run with it, anyway? Didn't most of them meet very similar fates for the ensuing century or two? Do you really think there were a lot of fat and lazy profiteers in that crowd?)

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Couple of questions for Bob the Unbeleiver:

Not to be a caviller, but isn't your post an example of imagining an explanation for something you didn't observe because it supports your preferences?

 

Why, yes, that is exactly it.

 

I very deliberately chose high-emotional-index descriptions of my mythical "Ogg" for a reason.

 

I wished to cast a bit of skepticism and derision on the whole idea of unsubstantiated faith as an explanation for anything.

 

If one resorts to unsubstantiated faith statements, one may choose any explanation for what is perceived around us - just as all religions do. If you start out with the "believe" first, then add the explanation, you can say literally anything.

 

Look at Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, for example. It is a pretty well thought-out alternative explanation to Creationism.

 

Neither can be either proved or disproved, because both philosophies begin with unsubstantiated faith statements.

 

Also, how would one explain people who insisted on offering explanations without profit? Given the name of this site the obvious example would be that Jewish carpenter guy who started a religion so he could live as a nomad for three years and then get tortured and killed.

(and then why did his followers pick up that particular torch and run with it, anyway? Didn't most of them meet very similar fates for the ensuing century or two? Do you really think there were a lot of fat and lazy profiteers in that crowd?)

 

There is profit and there is profit. The most basic and obvious one is food/money/ease. That is the one I chose, because it is easily identified by anyone reading the fable.

 

However, there are many other motivators to do things; caring for your offspring, caring for your parents/family; fame; power; historical immortality* and so on.

 

Other than the basic food/money/ease, likely the most often sought reward is power over others.

 

I could just as easily written the fable where Ogg rose to great power over his tribesmen, including power of life and death, etc. It would've been a deeper story, and more complex - but I did not wish to explore it that deeply.

 

As for Jesus, yes he did not profit monetarily much, if the Bible can be trusted as a historical source. However, look at all that lovely power Jesus had over his disciples.

 

And factor in the historical immortality - and you have motive enough for anyone.

____________________________________________________________________

 

* historical immortality is a term I use to describe the need, for some, to leave a 'mark' on history, to leave something of themselves for the next generation. Great artists often are driven by this to a degree. Some politicians have this motivation as well - Ronald Reagen is a fine example. (To be sure, it was not his only motivation.) I believe that it stems mostly from an awareness of one's own mortality. And, Jesus was clearly aware of his, if the Bible is even close to recording what he said.

[spamandham]

While amusing, we actually know the origin of most of the world's religions. They originated in ancient astronomy.