Who is Melchizedek?

[Wertbag]

I hadn't heard of Melchizedek the priest before, but apparently, he was a big deal at one point:

 

Hebrews 7

This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

 

Psalm 110:4

“The LORD has sworn and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”
 

Some Christians have claimed that Melchizedek is Jesus, pointing to the lack of parents and living forever, as signs it was Him.  Others have said Jesus being born to a virgin happened centuries later, so you can't point to that as a sign of Christ.  Some point to "The King of Salem" to mean "King of peace" which was a name given to Jesus, while others say Salem is the term for Jerusalem, and this would mean he was an actual King.

Of course, if he lived forever then he would have been hundreds of years old when Jesus was born, which would put the whole birth narrative at odds.

 

The Psalm verse says there was an order of Melchizedek.  An "order" points to their being a whole group of priests and followers, and yet no one else in the bible is said to be of this order.  Basically, this guy was an immortal super being, but vanishes from the bible.

 

Has anyone heard stories or legends of what this guy or his order really were?  Should we just take the supernatural elements to point to this character being legendary?

[◊ Weezer ◊]

 i have heard the name but don't know any more about him than what you have written.  

 

I just started an ebook you might be interested in. Escaping from Eden  by Paul Wallis.  He is (or was) an Anglican minister in England who started trying to make sense of passages in the bible that "do not add up".  He compares the bible with ancient Sumerian writings and other ancient religions and comes up with some interesting possibilities. He has a very logical mind and has came up with inconsistancies I had never thought of.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

He isn't mentioned anywhere else outside of the Bible, kind of like Moses whose story mimics that of Sargon. I think these myths were written during the Babylonian captivity, and in my view Melchizedek seems like a way to link victory to God, which is a way to get people to fund the religion. I imagine that one of the people writing the myths about Abraham wanted to include the priesthood somehow even prior to there being any priests. 

 

Side note, last night I was watching a short vid of historian Richard Carrier talking about why people are so prone to believe myths, and he said that even in ancient Greece philosophers warned each other about dissing the gods in front of uneducated common folk because the poor regarded all the myths as real, and they were prone to avenging their god's honor so as not to lose the imagined protection from those gods. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Sometimes myths have threads of truth.  I think you would find the book I mentioned above very interesting.  I can't wait to finsish it today.  

[walterpthefirst]

Logic might help to throw some light on this, Wertbag.

 

Here's what Jesus himself had to say about Melchizedek.

 

Matthew 22 : 41 - 46.

 

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 

42 “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?”

“The son of David,” they replied.

43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him ‘Lord’? For he says,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord:
    “Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
    under your feet.”’

45 If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?” 

46 No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

 

In 43 and 44 Jesus quotes from psalm 110, which is the very psalm where we learn that there is a priestly order of which Melchizedek is a member.

 

Psalm 110.

 

1 The Lord says to my lord:

“Sit at my right hand
    until I make your enemies
    a footstool for your feet.”

 

2 The Lord will extend your mighty sceptre from Zion, saying,
    “Rule in the midst of your enemies!”

3 Your troops will be willing
    on your day of battle.
Arrayed in holy splendour,
    your young men will come to you
    like dew from the morning’s womb.

 

4 The Lord has sworn
    and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever,
    in the order of Melchizedek.”

 

5 The Lord is at your right hand;
    he will crush kings on the day of his wrath.

6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead
    and crushing the rulers of the whole earth.

7 He will drink from a brook along the way,
    and so he will lift his head high.

 

King David cannot be the person to whom god is speaking in this psalm.  God cannot be inviting him to sit at god's right hand.  That place is reserved only for Jesus.

 

Even though it appears that god must be addressing David (the Lord [God] said to my lord [David]) that invitation cannot apply to David.  Only to Jesus.

 

Therefore, since god must be speaking to Jesus, this tells us immediately that Melchizedek is not Jesus.

 

"You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek."  That does not mean you (Jesus) are Melchizedek.  It means that you (Jesus) are like Melchizedek.

 

At least, that's where my logic leads me on this.

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wertbag]

Then you get these fantasy stories like vampires, angels or the Highlander movies where there are immortal super beings living amongst us.  If this guy was immortal, then in theory he is still around.  Makes for some interesting story ideas but doesn't lend itself to being believable in the real world.

Imagine if the Pope never died?  Some guy who was 2000 years old still sitting at the head of the church.  That would convince so many people of the churches claims of the supernatural.

[walterpthefirst]

Wertbag,

 

 

Have you also considered how the role of Melchizedek (to be a priest forever) contradicts what Revelation says about the New Heaven?

 

Revelation 22 : 1 - 5

 

1Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 

2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. 

3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. 

4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 

5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.

 

Here we see the separation of man of god that first happened at the Fall healed and put right.  There no longer needs to be a priesthood to intercede on the part of sinners.  No need for a priesthood to act as intermediaries between god and man.  That's because ALL sin is washed away forever by Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

 

This is confirmed by Romans 8 : 29 & 30

 

29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 

30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

 

It is also confirmed by any passage of the bible that says that god's holy spirit comes to dwell in the hearts, minds and bodies of believers.  (There are many.)

 

Given all of the above, why would Melchizedek need to be a priest forever?  All sin has been forgiven.  The faithful are justified, glorified and indwelt by the holy spirit.  They cannot sin again.  They are conformed to the image of the Son and the Son has never sinned and never will sin. Therefore, when the saved enter the New Jerusalem there will be no need for there to be priesthood to intervene on their behalf with god, because of their sins.  There can be no sin in the New Jerusalem.

 

This is yet another example of how the bible simply cannot be the perfect and inerrant word of god, Wertbag.  God's declared role of Melchizedek is totally contradicted by the final outcome of god's plan of salvation.  And yet he supposedly said both things.  How can an all-knowing and perfect god contradict himself in this way?

 

The answer is simple.  God never said these things - people did.

 

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Actually,  @walterpthefirst, the bible says there is only one mediator between god and man and that is the man jesus.  If this is true, and we accept Melchizedek as a proto-jesus, then, Melchizedek could be a priest forever, in the sense that god is eternal and jesus is god and also the mediator between man and god, which is himself, only he won't necessarily play the role of priest for all of eternity since there is no more sin, but also he is the same yesterday, today, and forevermore and so he will still be a priest, even though he no longer needs to mediate between himself and us, and so he wont be a priest while still being a priest.  Because he's mysterious and shit. 

[walterpthefirst]

Of course.   Of course.

 

 

[Crystalclear]

According to a copy of the Jewish  Tanach, ancient Sages said he was Shem, son of Noah. 

[walterpthefirst]

Well that contradicts Hebrews 7 : 1 - 3, Crystalclear.

 

 

1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 

2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

 

 

According to the apostle Paul, Melchizedek isn't descended from any human father or mother.

 

So quite how he can be Shem, the son of Noah, I don't know.

 

 

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

On 4/1/2023 at 12:58 PM, walterpthefirst said:

Well that contradicts Hebrews 7 : 1 - 3, Crystalclear.

 

 

1 This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 

2 and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, the name Melchizedek means “king of righteousness”; then also, “king of Salem” means “king of peace.” 

3 Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.

 

 

According to the apostle Paul, Melchizedek isn't descended from any human father or mother.

 

So quite how he can be Shem, the son of Noah, I don't know.

 

 

 

Walter.

 

 

 

 

My old church said that Melchizedek was Jesus. They also said the Arch angel Micheal was Jesus. 

 

I don't really think there is enough in the bible about him to know who he was. Maybe there is more about him in some extra biblical texts somewhere. 

 

DB

[alreadyGone]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:21 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

...  Because he's mysterious and shit. 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

37 minutes ago, alreadyGone said: