Still A Christian

[son_of_GOD]

First off I glanced at a few things that have turned you guys against Christ. I’ll address the  I remember and please feel free to ask me questions.

 

 I saw someone said that, “GOD,” sent His own son to suffer and die for humanity. Well that is a complete lie. GOD didn’t send His son He came Himself. Let me explain, first it says it plainly in English but we have discussed that it probably would have been better if instead of translating The Bible that instead people should have been taught Hebrew that way no misunderstandings would be made in translation.

 

That being said again GOD didn’t send His son, that would have been silly since all Jews are considered His sons as in heirs. If He wanted a son to do it there were plenty. But again the problem came with translating The Bible. 

 

I’d explain more but this message is already long. So I’ll just give you the scriptures where even in English Jesus Christ said plainly that He was the Father:

 

“Philip saith unto Him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”

‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭8‬-‭9‬ 

 

No son says when asked to see their father, “ you’re looking at him!” Not one. Again the problem came when it was translated.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Welcome, son.  I hope you will find a good home in our community here.  Please feel free to post as much as you'd like and ask us as many questions as you can think of.  However, out of respect for our community guidelines, I ask that you keep any andxall proselytizing and such confined to the appropriate forum, which is here in The Lion's Den.  As such, I have moved your topic here from the Introduction forum.  Again, welcome; and I look forward to hearing more from you soon. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Welcome!  Since you are new here I will explain to you that most of us know the Bible very well, and are aware that there are problems with the translations that have occured through the ages.  Many have been ministers, pastors, preachers, etc.  It sounds like you are here to bring us back into the fold from which we left, knowing the Bible very well.  Get ready for what will likely be the most frustrating discussion you have ever attempted.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Welcome Son,

 

Your argument is a bit weak. One scripture that you interpret as Jesus saying he was the father. One? Really? 

 

I personally was not a trinitarian and I don't believe the early church were either. There are a lot of problems with the trinitarian interpretation. Who was Jesus talking to on the cross? Or in the Garden of Gethsemane? Or even in creation when God says let US make man in OUR image? I feel the story flows better if you accept that there were three separate entities. But there were all the same and of one accord. In other words, if you have seen Jesus you have seen the father because the father is in Jesus. 

 

But none of that really matters or would convince anyone here to believe again. Maybe you should pick some of the bigger reasons people left. If you read some of the threads here in the lions den you'll get a better idea what your in for here. As has already been mentioned. Many of us here have a lot of knowledge on scripture and can make very sound arguments. 

 

 

Best Regards,

Dark Bishop 

 

 

[older]

Hi Son:

 

Welcome. Many of your predecessors here have also made the claim that there is an all-knowing, ever-present, all-powerful god who made absolutely everything (including the Covid virus that has killed over 1.1 million Americans) and who sent himself to earth and then killed himself in order to avenge himself for a curse he put on us because one of our distant ancestors and a rib woman ate fruit off a magical tree after being told to do it by a talking snake.*

 

Here is something for you: I spent my career in photojournalism and I have seen photographs that I can guarantee you have never seen, and will never see, of human suffering beyond anything you could possibly imagine. These photos prove to my satisfaction that the allegedly loving Christian god cannot possibly exist. There is no way any all-powerful, loving god would allow these things to happen. 

 

What I would like you to do is to take a look at a few of those photos. I have put them up on a server linked to below. The deal is that you must follow the directions below to look at each image separately for ten seconds and watch the entire set; no quick glances or skipping forward and no looking away. You are on your honor (God is watching you) to follow the directions to start the slide show and look at the photos, then after you have done that, come back and we'll discuss your loving god.

 

Be forewarned that there are images of severely deformed children, starving children, dead bodies in stacks and more. But if you want to claim an omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient, benevolent god, then you will have to look at the images first.

 

When you open the link, there is a set of photos. Click on the upper left image. Then at the bottom of the screen there is an arrow. Click once on that arrow and there will be an automatic slide show of the photos. Each will be on the screen for ten seconds. 

 

http://zimmer.fresnostate.edu/~gregl/proof/

 

 

 

________

*That last part is not original to me. I can't find the source.

 

[mwc]

On 3/28/2023 at 6:06 PM, son_of_GOD said:

I’d explain more but this message is already long. So I’ll just give you the scriptures where even in English Jesus Christ said plainly that He was the Father:

 

“Philip saith unto Him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”

‭‭John‬ ‭14‬:‭8‬-‭9‬ 

 

No son says when asked to see their father, “ you’re looking at him!” Not one. Again the problem came when it was translated.

 

     So why do you think that the KJV translators messed up in John 14:13?:

Quote

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 

     And why do you think jesus keeps himself distinct from the father in John 14:24?

Quote

He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

 

     Or exalt the father as superior in John 14:28?:

Quote

Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

 

     It's pretty strange the translators got it so right in that one place but apparently messed up in so many other places within the very same section.  Is there something wrong with the translation?  Do you have a better one?  Do you have some examples of the "originals" (meaning the sources the the translators used and are known to be entirely accurate) and their output where we can see these errors?

 

          mwc

 

[walterpthefirst]

I'm a bit confused by your claim that the bible has been mistranslated, soG.

 

If we assume that god is just as the bible says and he's eternal, all-knowing and all-powerful, then wouldn't he have known beforehand that the people he had entrusted to translate the bible wouldn't do it properly, just as he wanted it done?

 

And if we assume that nothing is impossible for god, just as the bible says, then couldn't god have selected trustworthy people beforehand , knowing in advance that they would translate the bible properly, just as he wanted it done?

 

Of course my argument here is based on those bible passages that describe god's perfect foreknowledge.

 

But if those passages have been mistranslated too.... ?

 

 

 

 

[sdelsolray]

On 3/28/2023 at 6:06 PM, son_of_GOD said:

First off I glanced at a few things that have turned you guys against Christ. I’ll address the  I remember and please feel free to ask me questions.

...

Yes, welcome to the forum.  I have three basic questions:

1)  Do you realize/understand that most of the members of this forum consider the Biblical text as mythology/fiction?

 

2)  If you do not yet realize this, are you prepared/willing to consider that perspective?  

3)  If you already realize/understand this, why are you here?

[◊ Weezer ◊]

If God wants us to know the exact truth or meaning of his will, why send it through multiple translations, copied by hand for centuries by human beings who seem to screw up so often??  Humans wrote the writings in the Bible.  Humans for centuries argued over which writings would go into the Bible.   Now all the groups don't have the same list of writings in their Bible.  So which one now has the correct and accurate Bible??  God has never stepped in and said, "this is the correct version".  So tell me, which version have you decided became his holy word?  And just who is it who said it was his holy word?  When II Timothy 3:16 was written, the New testament did not exist.  And besides, some man wrote those words.  Not god.

 

If God is all knowing, loving, and can do anything he wants to do, and really wants us to understand him, and follow him like he wants us to, why doesn't he use his magic powers and break into all branches of our public media and tell us all at the same time, exactly what it is he wants us to believe and do?  When he does that, I will return to believing in him.

 

Have you read the "Signature" that appears at the bottom of this post?

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Looks like the Son of God just did a drive by lol oh well. Guess we will have to wait until his second coming for a reply.  

 

DB

[older]

13 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Looks like the Son of God just did a drive by lol oh well. Guess we will have to wait until his second coming for a reply.  

 

DB

Well it was fun while it lasted. What I've learned is that most Christians will debate and argue and make illogical excuses until you present them with something they cannot refute, and then they just walk away. The best is when we point out the contradictions in the Bible that nullify major parts of the theology, as some of you have done above.

[walterpthefirst]

5 hours ago, older said:

Well it was fun while it lasted. What I've learned is that most Christians will debate and argue and make illogical excuses until you present them with something they cannot refute, and then they just walk away. The best is when we point out the contradictions in the Bible that nullify major parts of the theology, as some of you have done above.

 

Well, I have to ask (not just you Older, but anyone asking) what would you expect?

 

If a Christian's faith is founded only on their emotions, then they're unlikely to have thought much (or at all) about the internal logic of their beliefs.

 

So they get a rude awakening when they come here believing that their emotion-driven, but illogical faith will persuade anyone.

 

And so the pattern repeats itself because these self same Christians are unlikely to have read threads like these where logic destroys emotion.

 

And so they walk away, to resume their emotion-based beliefs, having learned nothing about themselves and falsely thinking that we are Satan's children.

 

If it weren't so sad it would be funny.   

 

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

 

 

[freshstart]

On 3/28/2023 at 9:06 PM, son_of_GOD said:

I glanced at a few things that have turned you guys against Christ.

Right off the bat your assumption that we "turned against Christ" is mistaken.

I didn't turn against Christ anymore than I turned against Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, or the Easter Bunny when I stopped believing in those things as well. There simply was not enough evidence to continue believing in any of this mythology (Christ included). And before you point to the bible (even the original Hebrew and Greek) as "evidence," one must consider all the other evidence (historical, scientific, as well as common sense) that refutes biblical stories. If you decide to explore that evidence, you may better understand what you're up against.

[older]

Yeah, Walter, it is sad. And I'm not surprised. They are afraid of their beliefs being shown to be false. I recall a very brief conversation with a family member who is a fundie. I don't remember the exact issue but she said something on a Christian topic and I didn't get three words out in response when she literally put her fingers in her ears and said, "La la la la, I can't hear you."

 

As has been said many times before, the reason their God made highlighters is so they can mark the text in the Bible that they like and ignore the rest. (And ignore the facts, deny reality, and defy logic.)

 

And, Freshstart, isn't it interesting how they jump to conclusions about we non-believers. How often do we hear the phrase that we're just "angry with God?" How can we be angry with something that doesn't exist? And when we press them to prove the Bible is true via evidence outside the Bible they come up empty-handed. (Well, except perhaps the "We don't know, therefore, God," response.)

 

It wouldn't be so annoying if they'd keep to themselves, but their theology requires them to "spread the word," which they take to extremes including passing laws to force their beliefs upon others.

[★ Citsonga ★]

On 4/2/2023 at 11:25 PM, Weezer said:

Have you read the "Signature" that appears at the bottom of this post?

 

FYI, signatures don't show up on some devices. When I'm on my PC I see users' signatures, but on my cellphone, which I'm using now, they don't show up. 

 

[sdelsolray]

Note that poster son_of_GOD uploaded his only post on Tuesday, March 28.  His last visit to Ex-C was on March 28.  The first response was posted three days later, on March 31.  He has not returned to read any of our responses.

 

It would appear that poster son_of_GOD is a drive by poster.

[walterpthefirst]

6 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

Note that poster son_of_GOD uploaded his only post on Tuesday, March 28.  His last visit to Ex-C was on March 28.  The first response was posted three days later, on March 31.  He has not returned to read any of our responses.

 

It would appear that poster son_of_GOD is a drive by poster.

 

 

And we're still waiting for the original Son of God to reappear.

 

 

 

[pantheory]

This being Good Friday, April 7th 2023, I have a "bad joke" for everyone, the stating of which could be used to demean both Christians and Atheists alike.

 

Why do they call it  Good Friday?  Cause it was the day that Christ was executed.

 

But maybe only atheists could laugh at this joke 

[pantheory]

On 4/6/2023 at 12:27 AM, walterpthefirst said:

 

 

And we're still waiting for the original Son of God to reappear.

 

 

 

 

Walter, have you heard of a Sea-Gull posting? The poster drops shit on a quick fly-over.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 4/7/2023 at 7:31 PM, pantheory said:

This being Good Friday, April 7th 2023, I have a "bad joke" for everyone, the stating of which could be used to demean both Christians and Atheists alike.

 

Why do they call it  Good Friday?  Cause it was the day that Christ was executed.

 

But maybe only atheists could laugh at the joke 

Our church never made a big deal of Easter, and good Friday was just another Friday. so I don't think I ever really thouht about why it is called good Friday, but it was a good thing to happen for christians.  Without his death, there was no forgiveness.  Kinda weird thinking!

[pantheory]

On 4/8/2023 at 9:07 PM, Weezer said:

Our church never made a big deal of Easter, and good Friday was just another Friday. so I don't think I ever really thought about why it is called good Friday, but it was a good thing to happen for Christians.  Without his death, there was no forgiveness.  Kinda weird thinking!

 

All religions involve illogical thinking in our search to find answers to the "how" and "why" questions we face as humans. History has instilled in us the idea that we are important beings. For many of us the idea that we are  just the smartest animals around in most ways (biology theory), takes away some of our dominating importance in any contrived grand scheme of things like most all religions.