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Goodbye Jesus

So glad I saw through Xianity


InTheBigInning

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I was born into a Xian home back in 1984 in Cleveland. First born son of parents who are Independent Fundamental Baptists. Larger church of around 600 people. My dad is still a deacon there. The church ran a smaller private Xian school of about 300 students K-12. My parents were both on staff as teachers in the school. My mom taught 4th grade. My dad taught various subjects in the high school. My parents’ whole lives revolved around this church and school since our family income only came from this source. My parents didn’t mind the lower pay because they felt God (the god of the Bible) had called them to teach there as a ministry. 

 

The church held 3 services a week: Sunday morning, Sunday night, and Wednesday night. Staff were required to go to all 3 every week and tithe as well. So when my parents went to church, I went to church. My parents were/are also in the choir, so there would be some choir practices on Saturday nights that I would have to sit through. We were there a lot of time during the week. Growing up this way since birth, I didn’t know any different. That was my normal. Frequently being at the church. When I was old enough to go to the Xian school which was behind the church on the same property, I was there on the church campus 6 out of 7 days a week. Sometimes 7 out of 7 days. I probably spent more waking hours at the church property than I did anywhere else. 
 

As a staff kid, I was held to a very high standard. An example to all the other kids of what a good upstanding Baptist was. My parents were also held to a very high standard for this reason. So no wonder my dad approached me at age 5 and asked me if I would like to go to heaven when I died. I said yes and he proceeded to lead me down the Romans road and I was “saved” after mimicking my dad in a sinner’s prayer. I was called up to the front of the church the next Sunday to make my decision public and then baptized about 3 months later in front of the whole church. I was in the club officially. 
 

I was an attentive and obedient Xian. I starting reading my King James Bible as soon as I could read. I was in Sunday school since birth and learned the Bible first before anything else academically. The Xian school had Bible classes every day and a chapel service once a week as well. There was really no stop to the long preaching services I attended. There was no alternative to the indoctrination. No chance for critical thinking. I swallowed all the preaching as fact. My parents were just trying to do what they believed to be right. To make God happy. To prove their devotion. 
 

I was taught that the Bible was absolute truth. And only the King James Version could be trusted. The earth was only 6000 years old and all these people in the Bible were real people who actually lived and all the things recorded in the Bible actually happened. You would spend eternity in heaven or a burning hell. The mission of the church was to get people to heaven. The whole point of life was to prepare to die and be ready for eternity. What you believed was the most important thing about you. So needed to believe rightly. And this church had the corner on what was right. 
 

I was a model Xian outwardly and in my mindset until 4th grade. That was the beginning of the end. A slow 23 year long process that led to my deconversion. I began to think for myself. I began to question the message of my church. It started very small. My 2 best friends in school went to a different baptist church than I did. Not as strict. They could wear tennis shoes and even jeans to church! They were allowed to listen to Christian contemporary music. Music with electric amplification and a drum beat. This was heavily preached against music in my church. When my friends said they listened to it, I attacked them just as my pastor said to do from the pulpit. I told them it wasn’t Xian music but instead from the pit of hell! You know what my friends did? The most powerful thing they could have done for me…….they laughed. That was the first crack in the ice. How could they not succumb to hearing the truth? How could they laugh? How could they disagree? And nothing happened? The next few days or weeks we would go back and forth while remaining best friends and I listened to some of the music at my friend’s house. DC Talk and Newsboys.  I still protested and asserted what my pastor would say (that this music was evil), but you know what?….I liked it. I liked contemporary music. My friends’ families weren’t evil. They were devoted Xians too. Now I had a dilemma. Who was right? My church or their church? My family or their families? They both couldn’t be right. And I made the first decision for myself. I decided that my church was wrong about this subject and Xian contemporary music was not bad.

 

My friends were very happy that I converted to their stance on CCM. Come to find out that my Xian cousins actually listened to it as well! I had become a little bit of a rebel from my church’s teachings. In 5th and 6th grade I began listening to secular rock with these same friends. I enjoyed that too. Rage Against the Machine. I was hooked. In junior high, I was listening to secular pop and rock radio stations (secretly of course from my parents). I started to develop a rebel attitude and enjoyed disobeying my church’s teachings about strict lifestyle. My friends really helped me get exposure to the outside world. I would go on to try alcohol a little and even started smoking in junior high. It was exhilarating to do what I wanted to do. To take freedom. But I went too far in 9th grade and was exposed and expelled from school. Very shameful for me family. They could have been fired and my dad blamed me. I repented and came clean about everything with substances and rock music. I completely cleaned up my life back to the old baptist ways. I was brought before the whole church and forgiven. Very shocking and fearful time in my life. Dad threatened to send me to an all boys Lester Roloff boarding school in Texas. I was terrified. They sent me to live with other my grandparents in Michigan for a month. I completed 9th grade at home.

 

I was allowed back in school in 10th grade under probation. The pastor of the church was also the superintendent of the school and he hated me. He did not want me back. I didn’t get back into substances but did “fall” into new temptations. Sexual experience with my new first real girlfriend and then starting a rock band with my 2 friends since I found that I was actually naturally gifted at playing drums. I never really got caught with my girlfriend over the next 2.5 years but I did get caught for the rock band. Almost got expelled mere weeks before graduating 12th grade. We had to quit the band and publicly apologize to the student body in order to graduate. We did and we did until the day after graduation when we resumed the band. Parents of course humiliated and enraged again. My dad told me a few months after graduating that I couldn’t live at home if I continued playing in the band. So I left at 18. My friend’s aunt and uncle took me in while we played concerts and shows around Cleveland. 
 

I still believed in God and considered myself a Xian but I knew I was rebellious. A former classmate approached me about a year later when I was 19 and challenged my Xianity. He had left the IFB’s and become an even more hardcore Xian. An Anabaptist. I couldn’t refute his challenges and he claimed to actually follow the Bible unlike what my church had taught me growing up. I was interested and heard him out for about a month a realized I wasn’t saved. I had had doubts all through my rebellious years since 6th grade. But now I was sure. I wasn’t serving the Lord wholeheartedly and was in danger of hell. So I made it “right” on July 13, 2004 at age 19 and was born again. Quit the band. Apologized to my parents and everyone at church. Completely cleaned up my life again and even went further than my parents in strictness. It was actually very euphoric and freeing to have my life completely clean and on the “right” track finally. I was completely right with God. Nothing held back. 
 

I was seeking the Lord’s guidance in everything. Praying many hours a day. I felt something start to lead me. I figured it was Jesus or the Holy Spirit. It told me to quit my job and quit college in Cleveland and move an hour south to Kent. This is where my old classmate went to church and we became best friends. I left everyone and everything behind in Cleveland. A fresh start as an adult. I was very devoted to Jesus and led a very strict lifestyle. I was a street preacher. I met a college girl at church and we married after a year of dating in 2006. We would go on to have 4 kids and bounce from church to church as nondenominational churches would self-destruct around us. I had been in the construction business and learned property management so I felt led to start my own business in 2011 buying real estate and becoming a landlord. 
 

No other Xians lived as strictly as we did. We were seen as overzealous at each new church we went to. I felt that God was not leading us to devout churches. My wife and I began having personal problems and our marriage was declining. Then in July of 2017 it happened. I didn’t know it at the time but, I would start deconverting. Another former classmate of mine had adopted the view that the earth was flat because the Bible said so. I wanted to correct her but asked for material on her stance so I could poke holes in it more efficiently. She gave me a 130 page pdf of her reasons and I started reading leisurely. After 3 months I had made it half way through the document and I realized in October of 2017 that yes indeed the Bible is a flat earth book. It was like scales fell from my eyes. I still remember sitting on my bed when the realization hit me. What were the implications of the Bible supporting a flat domed earth cosmology? 
 

It had dawned on me that the Bible may not be accurate. It may not be infallible. It could have problems. I had to be sure. I hurried up and read the rest of the pdf. The Bible made so much more sense now. I could let errors be errors and not have to rationalize or explain away the faults. I knew I was on to something. I instantly felt relief. Very similar to the feeling of being born again. This time I had learned the truth. There was no hell to be afraid of. No heaven. No sin. I determined that the earth is not flat and so something had to go. Either the Bible or science. I chose to throw away the Bible. I felt so free. Intellectually free. Everything I had been taught growing up about Xianity was untrue. The world made so much more sense. I began talking about Bible errors and looking for the best arguments for biblical inerrancy. I gave God until January 1, 2018 to convince me that the Bible was somehow true and that I was wrong. Well, that time came and went. I openly came out as an atheist. 
 

My wife would not hear me out for very long. She was very opposed to my even searching into the Bible issues or biblical flat earth. She tried to get a local Xian college professor to set me straight (to no avail) and even tried to get my best friend to set me straight (again to no avail).  No Xian could satisfy the problems in the Bible. I got bolder and bolder. My wife eventually filed for divorce in 2019 saying she needed a Xian husband. She would not have the kids end up in hell for questioning God and the Bible. She still hates me deeply. I lost half of my rental houses when she left and she got the kids for most of the time. I’ve since bounced back financially quite well and am doing fine. I get along with my kids great. I’m not preachy about atheism and not angry about Xianity. I did go through a long mourning process since my worldview had died but it’s so relieving to be out of that mindset. I know very well why I’m not a Xian and able to articulate it well. I was born to refute Xianity. With my background, how could I not? I’m passionate about helping anyone who has left Xianity and been shunned like me. I’ll go toe to toe respectfully with any Xian that wants to talk about the Bible. I really have a great life and enjoy myself quite a bit. The mental freedom is priceless. :) 

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Wow!  What a story!  Thanks for writing it.  I thought my Church of christ experience was strict, but your experience was really stiffling.  Even though my Dad was an elder and fairly hard lined, my mother and other realtives were more liberal.  I went to public schools and my mother taught in public schools, so I saw differnt ideas from an early age.  Like you I had a logical mind and some things just did not add up with the Bible.  I've been out 40 years now. and the longer I live, the more I see that does not add up.  

 

WELCOME!  Hang around and enjoy like minded people!

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I sincerely apologize that you had to be exposed to DC Talk.  How you must have suffered!

 

I'm joking, of course.  😏  I had an eerily similar experience during childhood.  Our church had a school.  I went to it; and mom taught there.  Dad was the head usher.  Our family was well respected by the church community and, by god or "the rod," I was going to live up to the expectations. 

 

We were pentecostal; so, in addition to the strict rules, we were also expected to speak in tongues, dance in the spirit, and roll around in the floor being "slain."  There were also demons under every stone and root.  We had to do spiritual warfare against all the powers of hell itself from a very young age. 

 

As a by-product of the anxiety and paranoia that was instilled in me through such heavy indoctrination, I suffered nighttime paralysis all throughout childhood and well into my late teens.  This "proved" to me that the demons were real and that I was under constant attack by none other than satan himself.  Because only the name of jesus could set me free from these episodes.  There is, of course, a psychological explanation; but, given that psychology itself was a tool of the devil, whatever explanation it had to offer was soundly rebuked in the name of jesus. 

 

I'm glad those days are behind us both, now, my friend.  We did endure a lot; but, as you said, the mental freedom is well worth it now.  Out of curiosity, did you go through the 5 stages of grief during your deconversion?  Many of us do; and often get stuck on the anger part for a while.  My experience is that the anger is normal and it's okay to allow yourself to feel it.  But once it has served its purpose, best to let it go and move on from it.  

 

Anyway, I'm rambling like a drunken redneck now; but I'm happy you have found our community and I hope you will make yourself at home here.  If you need anything at all, just give me a holler.

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Hey, welcome to our community, @InTheBigInning!  Great to have you with us.  That’s a great introduction post - thanks for taking the time!

 

Wow, that’s about as deep and as thorough an indoctrination as it’s possible to have.  No doubt that kind of full immersion beginning at infancy is very effective in the short term.  But I have to wonder how many of your peers were ultimately propelled out of Christianity and even theism completely when they started to see problems with the fundamentalist approach.   Do you have an idea how many of your former classmates are still deep into it, how many became more liberal Christians, and how many left the building completely as you did?  
 

Again, welcome!  I hope you’ll like it here.

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Thanks for the welcome! I’ve experienced the 5 stages of grief when my worldview died. I started with denial when confronted with biblical flat earth. Then I accepted the Bible had errors. Then I was bargaining about how the earth could be flat but that didn’t last long at all. Then I was upset for a long time. It’s subsided quite a bit in the past couple years. But I can always stoke the flame if I focus on how I was duped since birth. Hahaha. 
 

Some of my classmates joined the church and even got hired there to work on staff. Couldn’t believe it. We were rebels in high school. I would say most have continued in Xianity and loosed up on the strict lifestyle. One of them has seen the light and completely walked away from faith. Most will not talk to me. I’m always open to talking to them but I had turned them off back in 2004 when I became even more hardcore as an Anabaptist. Now that I’m atheist, they definitely don’t want to have anything to do with me. Some of my friends have recently just come around and we have talked but they keep me at arms length. It will take more time and maybe some luck. 

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2 hours ago, InTheBigInning said:

 

Some of my friends have recently just come around and we have talked but they keep me at arms length. It will take more time and maybe some luck. 

 

 

Don't hold your breath.  I've been out 30 years and it hasn't happened with any of my old friends.  Even the very liberal questioning ones back in the day eventually decided to hang in there.  But my group was overall more "liberal" (worldly) to begin with than your's were. 

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11 hours ago, InTheBigInning said:

Thanks for the welcome! I’ve experienced the 5 stages of grief when my worldview died. I started with denial when confronted with biblical flat earth. Then I accepted the Bible had errors. Then I was bargaining about how the earth could be flat but that didn’t last long at all. Then I was upset for a long time. It’s subsided quite a bit in the past couple years. But I can always stoke the flame if I focus on how I was duped since birth. Hahaha. 

I didn't realize until years later that I had gone through the 5 stages of grief.  I just remember being angry for a long time and eventually (finally) learning to process my emotions, the anger along with the rest.

 

11 hours ago, InTheBigInning said:

Some of my classmates joined the church and even got hired there to work on staff. Couldn’t believe it. We were rebels in high school. I would say most have continued in Xianity and loosed up on the strict lifestyle. One of them has seen the light and completely walked away from faith. Most will not talk to me. I’m always open to talking to them but I had turned them off back in 2004 when I became even more hardcore as an Anabaptist. Now that I’m atheist, they definitely don’t want to have anything to do with me. Some of my friends have recently just come around and we have talked but they keep me at arms length. It will take more time and maybe some luck. 

I was educated in "christian" schools from elementary through college.  I've lost touch with most of my high school colleagues; but I know through a Facebook group that I am one of the few who have turned from the faith.  Among my peers from college there is a much different story.  Most of the close friends I has there (some of whom are still friends) have left religion.  About a half dozen were in ministry and had to find other means of gainful employment upon deconversion.  The ones who stayed in the faith are now extreme fundagelicalists.  It's weird how differently people respond to the same environment and the selective pressure therein.

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On 5/11/2023 at 10:40 PM, InTheBigInning said:

What were the implications of the Bible supporting a flat domed earth cosmology? 
 

It had dawned on me that the Bible may not be accurate. It may not be infallible. It could have problems. I had to be sure. I hurried up and read the rest of the pdf. The Bible made so much more sense now. I could let errors be errors and not have to rationalize or explain away the faults. I knew I was on to something. I instantly felt relief. Very similar to the feeling of being born again. This time I had learned the truth. There was no hell to be afraid of. No heaven. No sin. I determined that the earth is not flat and so something had to go. Either the Bible or science. I chose to throw away the Bible. I felt so free. Intellectually free. Everything I had been taught growing up about Xianity was untrue.


It seems like you made a pretty rapid journey from totally believing the Bible to exiting Christianity completely.   Did you pass through any phase of thinking the basics of Christianity might be true even if much of the Bible was not literally correct?  Many people persist as lifelong Christians in that state.  Some of us here went through a liberal-Christian period on our way out of the religion.    

 

Was there any period when you were no longer a Christian but still believed in a god?  That too seems like a common transition state during many deconversion journeys.  

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Yes it was pretty rapid. Once I found that one flaw, it was like I was completely disgusted with the Bible. It was so obvious that is was ancient Jewish propaganda. A loser civilizations attempt at some sort of control in the Middle East. They couldn’t conquer much land or build an empire like Babylon or Egypt or Assyria or Greece. They were the ones being conquered constantly by force of arms so they used their religion and power of speech to “conquer” and I was one of their victims. 
 

The only concept that I do personally retain is the belief in a higher power. I know that something has helped me throughout my life. Something has given me ideas and guidance that have saved my life or changed it for the better. Too many examples in my life to deny it. I just called this thing “Jesus” or the “Holy Spirit” all my life. But now I could negate that. I began researching other established religions for a year or so but they were just as hokey as Xianity. 
 

I don’t know much for sure about this higher power. I don’t really even like calling it that. I just call it the Universe. I think it may be something like the Force in Star Wars. Or like in the Avatar movies. The goddess Eywa. An interconnection of matter and energy and something higher has emerged from it. I’m not dogmatic about it. I don’t know that it’s a person necessarily. One of my atheist friends believes that all humans are their own “gods” in that they have a higher consciousness inside themselves that helps us. That could be it. I don’t think that the universe is perfect or infallible. I don’t know if it’s just one thing or if there are several. I don’t know that it is omniscient or omnipotent. I think it uses the human concepts of all these gods like Allah or Jesus or Ganesh etc to give humans something to name it as. All I know is that the thing that led me into hardcore Xianity in 2004 was the same thing that led me out of it in 2017. I wasn’t looking to leave Xianity. But I’m so glad I did. 

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It's okay to not have everything figured out.  It's okay to believe, or not believe, as you see fit.  The main thing is to find out what works for you.  There is no one-size-fits-all worldview; there is no one single path that will lead to Truth.  Explore different paths; and examine different worldviews.  Eventually, you will find your own worldview, even if you cobble it together with bits and bobs from several other worldviews. 

 

I've been from christian to modified pantheist to hardcore atheist to philosophical agnostic Buddhist.  Each stop along my path has taught me something and given me ideals and principles to carry with me.  And I'm still not done.  I will never be done in the quest for Truth.  Good luck and godspeed. 

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6 hours ago, InTheBigInning said:

All I know is that the thing that led me into hardcore Xianity in 2004 was the same thing that led me out of it in 2017. I wasn’t looking to leave Xianity. But I’m so glad I did. 

 

4 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Eventually, you will find your own worldview, even if you cobble it together with bits and bobs from several other worldviews. 

 

I've been from christian to modified pantheist to hardcore atheist to philosophical agnostic Buddhist.  Each stop along my path has taught me something and given me ideals and principles to carry with me.


Following that path - finding your own worldview - is key to a richer and more meaningful life, I firmly believe.  In my case, I’ve taken on board aspects of Stoicism, Epicureanism and Buddhism, among others.  I don’t think there’s a shortcut to this point from fundamentalist Christianity, by the way.  You don’t get the benefits by becoming a liberal or even very liberal Christian, because Christianity in any form builds walls for the mind and severely limits critical thinking.  I think one has to renounce Christianity, cleanse one’s mind of its theology and dogma as much as possible.  THEN you can add in ideas from elsewhere, some of which may be compatible with Christianity but others not.  That’s OK, but only once we have stepped outside the belief system can we gain the full benefits of deconversion. 
 

 

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It’s funny that fundamentalist Xians act like Xianity is the most common sense worldview…how else could we make sense of life??? Hahaha, then to realize that Xianity is simply Judaism 2.0 and is only known today because the Roman Empire used it to unite people. And then Europe kept it going and then colonists kept it going in America. It’s not like it’s a superior way of thinking. It’s just been able to ride the coattails of major world movements. 

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11 hours ago, InTheBigInning said:

The only concept that I do personally retain is the belief in a higher power. I know that something has helped me throughout my life. Something has given me ideas and guidance that have saved my life or changed it for the better. Too many examples in my life to deny it. I just called this thing “Jesus” or the “Holy Spirit” all my life. But now I could negate that. I began researching other established religions for a year or so but they were just as hokey as Xianity. 

I've settled into a similar mindset with my views of a possible higher power. I prefer to use the masonic term, "Grand Architect". As it is the builder of the universe as we know it. I'm also comfortable exploring alternate religious means of meditation, ceremony, and traditions. Before I was Christian in my rebellious teenage years I explored Wicca and found it to be an interesting faith.

 

But I'm still fascinated with the Bible as well. Not as a factual text or anything. But just finding out the truths of why certain books were written, why certain phrases are made, and the historical context and impact it has made. The jews made a huge impact on earth for such a small group of tribal nomads. Its really impressive honestly. Even today most of the world is held captive by some form of abrahamic religion. I hope those days are slowly coming to an end. But the more I understand about their religious texts and how they came to be, the stronger I am in my own resolve against those religions. 

 

DB

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Ya I get what you’re saying about being fascinated by the Bible while not believing it. I’ve had a few liberal Xians try to get me to appreciate the Bible. Not as inerrant truth but as kind of like Aesops fables. Some good lessons. And I’m at the point that I can’t even give the Bible that. I was taught it was inerrant, factual information. I don’t even want to fact check it for any nook or cranny that is true. I’ve fact checked so much of it to find out that it isn’t true that it seems trivial to try to “redeem” it. 
 

That last conclusion came when I found out there’s no evidence that anyone from Adam to Solomon existed. I was willing to give it a lot of slack until I learned that. So much of the Old Testament is just fake history. Then to learn that there’s no evidence that Jesus or the 12 disciples ever existed either was just further disgusting yet liberating. I could safely toss this book in the garbage. Or consider it propaganda. It just a tool of manipulation by the Jews to give themselves a cool backstory. Then for the Xians (under mostly likely apostle Paul) of the same thing. A cool backstory for Xianity. I hate that. 

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13 hours ago, InTheBigInning said:

Ya I get what you’re saying about being fascinated by the Bible while not believing it. I’ve had a few liberal Xians try to get me to appreciate the Bible. Not as inerrant truth but as kind of like Aesops fables. Some good lessons. And I’m at the point that I can’t even give the Bible that. I was taught it was inerrant, factual information. I don’t even want to fact check it for any nook or cranny that is true. I’ve fact checked so much of it to find out that it isn’t true that it seems trivial to try to “redeem” it. 

 

Your right, I don't try to redeem it. It is unredeemable. But it was so influential in my life. I've talked about this several times on this site, when I was a believer and especially when I answered what I thought was the call to preach I would continually ask God for the Truth in his will, his way and his word. I truly wanted to know the truth that God's word was trying to tell us. 

 

I know now that I never got an Iota of truth until I deconverted. There were always scriptures I would come across in my studies that would give me pause. Scriptures that I would pray about and confused me. Some were depictions of God that didn't align with the God that was taught in the church. Others were scriptures like when God was talking in the beginning and said, "let us create man in our image". Who was he talking to? At the time I assumed it was Jesus. Then it talks about the "sons of God" taking wives of the daughters of men. Who were these "sons of God", i thought there was only the one. And he was supposedly pure and holy without the carnal desires of man. Or why was revelations so crazy, was it an ancient man trying to describe unknown visions of the future? Or was it something else entirely?

 

Through my studies after deconversion I've been able to answer many of those questions. I know now that Judaism developed from ancient canaanite polytheistic beliefs. I also think that Egypt had a big influence on the creation of their monotheistic beliefs during the time of the Pharoah Akhenaten. https://www.thecollector.com/akhenaten-monotheism/

 

It was very close to this time that it appears the isrealites also began to move toward monotheistic beliefs. Not that of the Egyptian Ra. But their own Supreme deity El and later Yahweh. I think this because I have also read that during the time of the supposed exodus, escape would have been futile as Egypt controlled the whole region of Canaan anyway. Which means they were possibly under the rule of Akhenaten himself. 

 

I also questioned the stories of creation, the flood, and the tower of babel. Now I know that all those stories were just a primitive peoples attempt to explain the world around them based on their beliefs and ideals. 

 

So for me it is a quest for the actual truth behind something that impacted my life for many years and still continues to impact me through other believers in my family and in my life. 

 

DB

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For me, the bible makes great lining for the bird cage.  The pages are so thin they tend to form clumps when they get wet, making clean-up a snap.  Right now I'm using a red-letter edition of the King James Version.  Put bullshit in; get bird shit out.

 

 

il_fullxfull.3428626952_dpf5.jpg

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2 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

For me, the bible makes great lining for the bird cage.  The pages are so thin they tend to form clumps when they get wet, making clean-up a snap.  Right now I'm using a red-letter edition of the King James Version.  Put bullshit in; get bird shit out.

 

 

il_fullxfull.3428626952_dpf5.jpg

Are you sure you've gotten past the anger?

 

Lmao 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 

 

DB

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2 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

Are you sure you've gotten past the anger?

 

Lmao 🤣🤣🤣🤣 

 

DB

There are practical applications for even the worst of emotions.

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