German Catholic church loses 520,000 members in 1 year

[RankStranger]

20 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

No, sir.  I was definitely referring to the way you framed your argument.  I mistakenly assumed you would realize that I was not critquing the argument itself, merely the form in which you presented it.   In future I will try to make my remarks more clear.

 

For clarity here, let me just add: I agree that christianity is a horrible religion; but comparing it to other, equally horrible religions does nothing to strengthen your overall position of accepting the christian religion, nor does it encourage others to do so.

 

Well I'll be damned.  It's almost as if you were in fact referring to my 'position' the whole time.  

 

So is it the way I framed my argument that's "indefensible"?  Or is it my overall position of accepting the Christian religion that's "indefensible"?

 

Indefensible is a big word.  If you're clear on what you meant by it, I'd be interested to know.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

8 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Well I'll be damned.  It's almost as if you were in fact referring to my 'position' the whole time.

Again, I agree with your position.  It was the way you framed it that I find faulty.  I don't know how else to explain this to you in a way that you will understand, especially if you are intent on not understanding. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

12 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

So is it the way I framed my argument that's "indefensible"?  Or is it my overall position of accepting the Christian religion that's "indefensible"?

Can you defend your acceptance of the christian religion?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

20 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

Indefensible is a big word. 

Sorry.  I'll use smaller words for you in the future.

[RankStranger]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Can you defend your acceptance of the christian religion?

 

Yep.  I'm still waiting for you to tell me what exactly you meant by "indefensible", and what exactly you were referring to.

 

I think you don't know, or won't admit it.

[mwc]

On 7/6/2023 at 8:09 PM, older said:

I like it, too, Rank. I've heard but not confirmed that in the UK hundreds of years ago roll was taken at church and you had better have been there. 

     This is true (though I don't know how they actually measured attendance).  You're referring to Act of Uniformity 1558.  It was repealed and reinstated shortly after and finally removed altogether in the late 1800's.  If you didn't attend church once a week you got a pretty hefty fine.  

 

          mwc

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

7 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

 

Yep.  I'm still waiting for you to tell me what exactly you meant by "indefensible", and what exactly you were referring to.

 

I think you don't know, or won't admit it.

I have already explained what I meant and what I was referring to.  Several times.  If you still legitimately do not understand, I can't help you.

 

 

[RankStranger]

2 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I have already explained what I meant and what I was referring to.  Several times.  If you still legitimately do not understand, I can't help you.

 

 

 

Sure you were.  That's why you asked me to 'defend' my acceptance of the Christian religion. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

9 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

That's why you asked me to 'defend' my acceptance of the Christian religion. 

No.  I asked you if you could defend your acceptance of the christian religion.  This is probably why it is so difficult for you to understand simple explanations; you struggle with reading comprehension.  And that's okay.  I already agreed to use smaller words and simpler explanations in the future.  I think we've made some real progress here.  Have a good day.

[older]

Hi Rank. I appreciate your thoughts and we do have many points of agreement. What I didn't make clear when I wrote that Christianity is the most aggressive is that they are probably the most active in proselytizing. Yes, other religions have used force on people for various reasons but as far as I can determine, Christianity does more proselytizing than any of the others. A Wikipedia article on the subject* says that proselytization is uncommon in Indian religions such as Hinduism (although there is some debate within Hinduism about doing so), Jainism and Sikhism, and Buddhism does not have an accepted or strong proselytism tradition. Judaism generally considers proselytizing offensive. I didn’t find a list of all religions and their approach to proselytism but the size of Christianity would suggest that it is the largest faith to engage in the practice.

 

 

 

____________

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytism

[older]

Our discussion here about the negatives of Christianity raises an interesting question: is there a version of Christianity that is 100 percent positive? Let's not derail this thread with that, but rather I'll start a new one here:    

 

[RankStranger]

48 minutes ago, older said:

Hi Rank. I appreciate your thoughts and we do have many points of agreement. What I didn't make clear when I wrote that Christianity is the most aggressive is that they are probably the most active in proselytizing. Yes, other religions have used force on people for various reasons but as far as I can determine, Christianity does more proselytizing than any of the others. A Wikipedia article on the subject* says that proselytization is uncommon in Indian religions such as Hinduism (although there is some debate within Hinduism about doing so), Jainism and Sikhism, and Buddhism does not have an accepted or strong proselytism tradition. Judaism generally considers proselytizing offensive. I didn’t find a list of all religions and their approach to proselytism but the size of Christianity would suggest that it is the largest faith to engage in the practice.

 

 

 

____________

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytism

 

Sure, you may be right about Christianity being the biggest and best proselytizers.  Missionary work is a big deal in my old church.  I might like to see some of that... sometime.

 

Proselytizing can be an annoying practice... what can I say?  At least Christians aren't into honor-killings.  Well, most of us aren't.  These days.  

 

 

 

[older]

1 hour ago, RankStranger said:

Proselytizing can be an annoying practice...

I don't remember if I posted on this site the news story of the guy who was trimming hedges and had stepped inside with his hedge trimmer just as the doorbell rang. He opened it while holding the trimmer to find a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses, who quickly stepped back from the door. They made a couple of excuses and left. The guy says he'll keep a chain saw next to the door from now on.

[Casualfanboy16]

7 minutes ago, older said:

The guy says he'll keep a chain saw next to the door from now on.

This is the only way to handle proselytizers. Sometimes other methods won't cut it, but that chainsaw sure will. 

[RankStranger]

That'll work til I build a tactical self-defense Bible.  You ain't seen the Wrath of God yet!

[Casualfanboy16]

1 minute ago, RankStranger said:

That'll work til I build a tactical self-defense Bible.  You ain't seen the Wrath of God yet!

I mean... that's one way to put on the full armor of god, I guess.

[Wertbag]

One thing I've been reading about the decline in Christianity was that there was a portion that were driven away by fundamentalist teachings.  It used to be that being taught Genesis was literal truth was not countered and going from church to Christian schooling managed to avoid hearing opposing views.  Nowadays people raised to ideas like a young earth, global flood, literal garden of Eden or the world's population coming from 2 people once and 8 people after the flood, are quickly finding tons of evidence online as to why those ideas are silly.  Fundamentalism teaches that if you can't trust any part of the bible then why would you trust any of it?  But this line of thinking can backfire, as when questions get raised, people are less likely to move to a more reasonable position (it's all metaphor, old earth creation or some more flexible stance) and drop faith altogether.

There are Christians who speak out against Fundamentalism as a position that does more damage than good.  If you have to deny all fields of science to make your stories work, then credulity gets stretched to breaking point.

[RankStranger]

14 minutes ago, Wertbag said:

One thing I've been reading about the decline in Christianity was that there was a portion that were driven away by fundamentalist teachings.  It used to be that being taught Genesis was literal truth was not countered and going from church to Christian schooling managed to avoid hearing opposing views.  Nowadays people raised to ideas like a young earth, global flood, literal garden of Eden or the world's population coming from 2 people once and 8 people after the flood, are quickly finding tons of evidence online as to why those ideas are silly.  Fundamentalism teaches that if you can't trust any part of the bible then why would you trust any of it?  But this line of thinking can backfire, as when questions get raised, people are less likely to move to a more reasonable position (it's all metaphor, old earth creation or some more flexible stance) and drop faith altogether.

 

There are Christians who speak out against Fundamentalism as a position that does more damage than good.  If you have to deny all fields of science to make your stories work, then credulity gets stretched to breaking point.

 

Yeah...

 

Fundamentalism is a powerful approach in some ways.  For a while... and not without cost.  It was a pretty functional approach under conditions that existed 50+ years ago.  Not for everybody of course, but for enough people.  But that world doesn't exist anymore.  People are are as free to walk away as they've ever been.

[RankStranger]

1 hour ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

I mean... that's one way to put on the full armor of god, I guess.

 

Makin' Bible-Beaters great again.

 

[Casualfanboy16]

5 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

Makin' Bible-Beaters great again.

 

Well, I guess I could give the Bible a shot...

[Casualfanboy16]

6 hours ago, Wertbag said:

One thing I've been reading about the decline in Christianity was that there was a portion that were driven away by fundamentalist teachings.  It used to be that being taught Genesis was literal truth was not countered and going from church to Christian schooling managed to avoid hearing opposing views. 

I was one of those people raised up in fundamentalist teachings. I got a Christian school education my entire PreK-12th grade years. Even went to church pretty much every Sunday until I started getting bored of it and tried making up excuses not to go. The only times I went (usually by force) I had to sit through the service and all I could think about was waiting for it to end so I could get to the Keurig out in the lobby and grab myself a cup of hot chocolate.

 

Even if I was raised outside of fundamentalist teachings, I feel like I would fall out of it anyway at some point. Christianity's teachings kinda messed me up in a number of ways. I personally think that the decline is for the betterment of the world. I guess it doesn't help either that I'm gay in a rather heavily Conservative Christian environment. Not to mention a lot of teachings from my school contribute to my lack of self-esteem. Hearing "you're worthless without god in your life" isn't exactly something you should be preaching to a bunch of middle school/high schoolers at morning chapel. It only was said once, but things like that tend to stick so... guess the axe does forget and the tree really does remember.

 

If Christianity was a drug, this place is my rehab center to get me clean again. I've had my overdose of Christian education and dogma over the years, and personally, I don't need much more right now. I'll go back to read the Bible when I've sobered up enough lmao.

[older]

7 hours ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

I'll go back to read the Bible when I've sobered up enough lmao.

  

Considering how many good books there are out there that are really worth reading, perhaps it would be better to just skip it.

[RankStranger]

9 hours ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

Well, I guess I could give the Bible a shot...

 

I like this post.