If it be Thy will...

[Anodos]

How often this phrase is spoken and included in prayer and in statements regarding future plans. For example, 'God willing, next week I will be...'  'If it be Thy will, we pray that...'

 

I imagine a tight rope walker about to cross a deep ravine. That tight rope walker must have absolute 100% confidence that he/she will make it to the other side safely. There must be no doubt in their mind. There must be no 'if' or 'but' or 'maybe'. The slightest doubt/uncertainty could be costly.

 

Here is the problem. The moment the words 'if it be Thy will' creep in, is there not doubt? I mean, maybe it's not Gods' will. Then again, it could be. 

How can anyone go forwards in life, take risks, big or small, with this kind of thinking. It must surely take the wind out of the sails from the get go.

 

What tight rope walker could utter those words ' if it be Thy will...' before attempting to cross and have the confidence necessary? Does that statement not sow the seeds of doubt?

 

To succeed at anything, there must surely be no doubt! Does not doubt sap away at ones determination and will? I marvel at those that claim to live like that. To make decisions. A sort of fatalistic approach.

 

Biblically, is there any support for this kind of approach or thinking? For example, when the Israelites went into battle, they went with absolute confidence. When the prophets had to make important game changing decisions, they made them with absolute certainty and on the occasions when they were fearful, assurance was promptly provided prior to the decision being enacted (Gideon and the fleece, Moses and the signs given to him, Thomas and his doubts). I don't see this pattern of thinking being taught or practiced in the scriptures. That is not to say that man can over ride the will of God. Rather, the statement itself seems misapplied and leads to a fatalistic, weak, helpless, ineffective approach. How can it not?

 

Here is an example. Some years ago, I had signed up for a stint of voluntary work with a Christian organisation in India. I was all set to go. I was making preparations. Shortly before the start date, I went, as usual, for tea to a small 'home group' after evening service at the church. The elder, leading, said a prayer before we shared some food. In his prayer, he prayed the following - 'and we pray for .... if it be Thy will... regarding my upcoming trip to India. The moment he said the words 'if it be Thy will...' I remember thinking, 'what if it's not His will? Doubt crept in. I lost my confidence and pulled out of the voluntary work. 

 

 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

 

40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?

 

41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

 

42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

 

Matthew 26

[Anodos]

The passage from Matthew 26 - it would sound as though Jesus was resigned to allow things to play out, to unfold and let the 'Father' decide how things were to go. In which case, 'if it be thy will'. I see that.

 

Up to that point, by all accounts and indications, he knew what his mission and end would be. Yet, towards the end, a flickering of doubt.

 

I'm reminded also of a pastor I heard declare, that the best thing he ever did was let 'God' sit in the drivers seat and allow himself to sit in the passengers seat, so to speak. Again, I'm mystified how anyone can in reality truly live and function like that. Such an attitude cannot but lead to a complacent, fatalistic, passive approach to everything?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

55 minutes ago, Anodos said:

Up to that point, by all accounts and indications, he knew what his mission and end would be. Yet, towards the end, a flickering of doubt.

A flickering doubt followed by a whimpering complaint at the very end that god had forsaken him.  Compelling storyline, really.

 

57 minutes ago, Anodos said:

I'm reminded also of a pastor I heard declare, that the best thing he ever did was let 'God' sit in the drivers seat and allow himself to sit in the passengers seat, so to speak. Again, I'm mystified how anyone can in reality truly live and function like that. Such an attitude cannot but lead to a complacent, fatalistic, passive approach to everything?

Things might be different in the Bonny Auld Country; but in my experience, christians are only resigned to follow "god's will" so long as it agrees with what they already want to do anyway.  Once "god's will" becomes uncomfortable, embarrassing, or financially difficult, it somehow transforms into "an attack by the enemy to deceive them and lead them away from 'god's will'."

[RankStranger]

"If it be Thy will".

 

I pray much the same thing all the time.  Among other things it's an existential question.  I don't have an answer that'll satisfy anybody here.

[midniterider]

On 6/30/2023 at 7:33 PM, Anodos said:

How often this phrase is spoken and included in prayer and in statements regarding future plans. For example, 'God willing, next week I will be...'  'If it be Thy will, we pray that...'

 

I imagine a tight rope walker about to cross a deep ravine. That tight rope walker must have absolute 100% confidence that he/she will make it to the other side safely. There must be no doubt in their mind. There must be no 'if' or 'but' or 'maybe'. The slightest doubt/uncertainty could be costly.

 

 

 

https://youtu.be/JlSecLXKMTM

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:35 AM, midniterider said:

 

 

https://youtu.be/JlSecLXKMTM

 

Dang.  Thought I had seen all of those episodes.  But don't remember that one.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

If it be thy will is kinda like, whatever will be will be.

[RankStranger]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:43 PM, Weezer said:

If it be thy will is kinda like, whatever will be will be.

 

I like this post

[♦ Fuego ♦]

On 7/1/2023 at 3:14 AM, Anodos said:

I'm reminded also of a pastor I heard declare, that the best thing he ever did was let 'God' sit in the drivers seat and allow himself to sit in the passengers seat

 

How? Imagination. Does he literally let go of his actual steering wheel in his car? No. In the same way, he still makes the choices in the rest of his life. Believers don't make room for doubt, so when then take someone to surgery much pleading is done to God for intervention. The doctors do what they've studied in school and practicals, and believers credit God for healing or bow to his will if the person dies or is left crippled. God healing them would not require doctors, just like in the gospels or with Elijah. 

 

I recall talking to someone in church about lifting weights and she said "I encourage you to lift weights for Jesus". I asked her how exactly I would do that, and she had no answer. It sounds great to the ears of believers, but doesn't really make sense in reality. 

[Casualfanboy16]

56 minutes ago, Fuego said:

"I encourage you to lift weights for Jesus".

GETTING RIPPED AS FUCK FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT!!!! ‍

 

Edit: I don't know what came over me.

[Casualfanboy16]

1 hour ago, Fuego said:

Believers don't make room for doubt, so when then take someone to surgery much pleading is done to God for intervention. The doctors do what they've studied in school and practicals, and believers credit God for healing or bow to his will if the person dies or is left crippled.

As someone who was really sick as a baby and their parents prayed and prayed for them to get better and I eventually did, I can relate to this. I believe my parents told me the doctors didn't even know how I healed up because I believe there was like so much wrong with me I should've died, but I made some miracle recovery and even doctors couldn't explain it. I'm only saying this based off of what I was told because I don't remember anything that happened to me at that age. Of course, my parents gave more credit to God for this sudden miraculous recovery because they prayed and prayed and then had pretty much everybody in the church praying for me. I don't believe that the prayer or divine intervention is what kept me alive though. Maybe just luck, I guess. Also the work of doctors despite the whole weird miracle recovery thing that happened or whatever.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

4 hours ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

 

Edit: I don't know what came over me.

 

It was definitely the holy spirit!  

[Casualfanboy16]

Just now, Weezer said:

It was definitely the holy spirit!  

Lmaooooo! The holy spirit got a hold of me