Judges 19 and Genesis 19 duplicated stories?

[Wertbag]

I know I have read both stories, Genesis talking of Lot protecting the travellers from the sex starved crowd by offering his daughters, and the Levite offering his daughter/concubine to protect travellers from sex starved crowds, but I never considered side by side just how similar the two accounts are:

 

Judges 19 - While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”
The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”

Genesis 19:5 - They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

 

Not only is the story the same, but the wording is almost identical.  The same gay rape inspired crowd, the same two women to be sacrificed, the same end result of the city being burnt to the ground with no survivors. A quick search on when Judges and Genesis were written puts estimates for both at around the same time 500-600BC.

 

Maybe it is one story and the details got twisted or changed over time?  Perhaps it's a repeating moral story and neither telling is based on real events?  Or perhaps the Israelites just needed to justify their war, so told a story to make themselves look like the good guys?  I find it hard to believe that the implausible event happened once, let alone in the exact same way multiple times.
 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

A Lot to consider. 

[mwc]

On 7/2/2023 at 3:57 PM, Wertbag said:

I know I have read both stories, Genesis talking of Lot protecting the travellers from the sex starved crowd by offering his daughters, and the Levite offering his daughter/concubine to protect travellers from sex starved crowds, but I never considered side by side just how similar the two accounts are:

 

Judges 19 - While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”
The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. Look, here is my virgin daughter, and concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”

Genesis 19:5 - They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”
Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

 

Not only is the story the same, but the wording is almost identical.  The same gay rape inspired crowd, the same two women to be sacrificed, the same end result of the city being burnt to the ground with no survivors. A quick search on when Judges and Genesis were written puts estimates for both at around the same time 500-600BC.

 

Maybe it is one story and the details got twisted or changed over time?  Perhaps it's a repeating moral story and neither telling is based on real events?  Or perhaps the Israelites just needed to justify their war, so told a story to make themselves look like the good guys?  I find it hard to believe that the implausible event happened once, let alone in the exact same way multiple times.
 

     Lot puns aside , from what I've read about this the prevailing consensus seems to be that the version in Genesis came first and the author of Judges used it as a way to cause the reader to think back to that infamous tale.  Essentially, as a way to tell the reader how the lawlessness of the people they were talking about was the same as those in Sodom, their fate the same and the reader would understand the parallel and justification.  I'm sure I'm oversimplifying this, and I hope I'm recalling it all since it's been awhile, but I think this is somewhere in the neighborhood.

 

          mwc

 

[pantheory]

On 7/6/2023 at 1:59 AM, mwc said:

     Lot puns aside , from what I've read about this the prevailing consensus seems to be that the version in Genesis came first and the author of Judges used it as a way to cause the reader to think back to that infamous tale.  Essentially, as a way to tell the reader how the lawlessness of the people they were talking about was the same as those in Sodom, their fate the same and the reader would understand the parallel and justification.  I'm sure I'm oversimplifying this, and I hope I'm recalling it all since it's been awhile, but I think this is somewhere in the neighborhood.

 

          mwc

 

Yeah, your explanations sounds about right to me -- that the Genesis story came first, and the reasoning and reason for the second story. Fairy tails cab be fun to write. But as a scientist I hope I haven't written any.   I also never wrote any stories where rape was involved.