An EVIL teaching of Jesus

[Art D]

We’ve seen two commands in the Old Testament where Yahweh says a child that curses a parent must be put to death. Jesus is as responsible for those commands as his Father because, to quote Jesus, “I and my Father are one.” So, when Yahweh was inspiring the commands, Jesus wasn’t there saying, “Now wait a minute, Dad. Let’s think this over a bit.” Rather, Jesus was there agreeing with his Father.

 

Worse, there are two instances in the New Testament where Jesus specifically cites the Old Testament commands with approval. One instance occurs in Matthew 15:1-4.

Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.

The Pharisees criticize Jesus’ followers. In turn, Jesus says the Pharisees disobey God’s command to put the cursing child to death.

 

The Bible is said to be the very Word of God. Of course, it wasn’t originally written in English, but it’s translated by scholars who spend their lives studying the original languages and who, no doubt, pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance before translating. In the Bible, we have prophets who tell us what God said, and we have a few instances of God himself speaking. In Matthew 15:1-4, we have God himself quoting himself in his very own super-duper book. We have Jesus specifically citing with approval the Old Testament commands to kill the cursing child. We have Jesus labeling those commands as commands of God.

 

Can it get any more certain than that? No. Will believers, who have been trained from childhood to believe their preacher, not their own eyes and brain, allow themselves to be told the words don’t mean what they clearly mean? Yes. 

 

From “The Anti-Christian Book: Truth is Anti-Christian. The Bible tells Enormous Lies about God.”

[RankStranger]

I may be a bit biased here... see that big glowing cross to the left.

 

But it looks to me like Jesus was clearly playing 'devil's advocate'.  Pointing out that the Pharisees themselves don't live per every jot and tittle of the law.

 

Fundamentalists rarely understand this.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

I may be a bit biased here... see that big glowing cross to the left.

 

But it looks to me like Jesus was clearly playing 'devil's advocate'.  Pointing out that the Pharisees themselves don't live per every jot and tittle of the law.

 

Fundamentalists rarely understand this.

And when jesus said, "Anyone who does not hate his own father and mother is not worthy to be my disciple" was he just playing devil's advocate then as well?  Get thee to the Den, foul godling!

[RankStranger]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

And when jesus said, "Anyone who does not hate his own father and mother is not worthy to be my disciple" was he just playing devil's advocate then as well?  Get thee to the Den, foul godling!

 

Jesus often spoke metaphorically, and in parables.  You understand this, right?  Most non-fundamentalists do.

[RankStranger]

3 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

And when jesus said, "Anyone who does not hate his own father and mother is not worthy to be my disciple" was he just playing devil's advocate then as well?  Get thee to the Den, foul godling!

 

Also I like this post 

[TABA]

I just like the epithet “Foul Godling”.  That’s worth saving for future use.  

[RankStranger]

2 minutes ago, TABA said:

I just like the epithet “Foul Godling”.  That’s worth saving for future use.  

 

I like it.  Can I have it as a tag?

[☆ pantheory ☆]

Luckily my own kids when they were young never cursed at me or my wife. They didn't have to fear what would happen, they already knew   So they would never have dared to do it, at least to my face or in my presence, or maybe even under their breath or even think it. Cussing in general brought about restrictions, but cursing us as parents required just one good swat on their butts, in their underpants while bending over, which rarely every happened, was a great teacher of manners and other desired behaviors. I never did it in anger. I would wait awhile and they would know what was coming. As the Bible says, spare the rod, spoil the child -- which I still believe today contrary to modern discipline beliefs in the US. But of course their knowledge of your unlimited love for them is of primary importance and must be well known to them and to all others.  The carrot and the stick method teaches both animals as well as children.

 

And the good and bad experiences of life also teach smart adults on an ongoing basis,  by the same carrot-and-stick method IMO, which can involve self rewards and self discipline.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

I like it.  Can I have it as a tag?

I have applied it as your signature.  It will appear at the bottom of your posts.  If you get tired of it, give me a holler and we'll change it. 

[RankStranger]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I have applied it as your signature.  It will appear at the bottom of your posts.  If you get tired of it, give me a holler and we'll change it. 

 

Thanks, much appreciated 

[Hierophant]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:35 AM, Art D said:

We’ve seen two commands in the Old Testament where Yahweh says a child that curses a parent must be put to death. Jesus is as responsible for those commands as his Father because, to quote Jesus, “I and my Father are one.” So, when Yahweh was inspiring the commands, Jesus wasn’t there saying, “Now wait a minute, Dad. Let’s think this over a bit.” Rather, Jesus was there agreeing with his Father.

 

Worse, there are two instances in the New Testament where Jesus specifically cites the Old Testament commands with approval. One instance occurs in Matthew 15:1-4.

Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.

The Pharisees criticize Jesus’ followers. In turn, Jesus says the Pharisees disobey God’s command to put the cursing child to death.

 

The Bible is said to be the very Word of God. Of course, it wasn’t originally written in English, but it’s translated by scholars who spend their lives studying the original languages and who, no doubt, pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance before translating. In the Bible, we have prophets who tell us what God said, and we have a few instances of God himself speaking. In Matthew 15:1-4, we have God himself quoting himself in his very own super-duper book. We have Jesus specifically citing with approval the Old Testament commands to kill the cursing child. We have Jesus labeling those commands as commands of God.

 

Can it get any more certain than that? No. Will believers, who have been trained from childhood to believe their preacher, not their own eyes and brain, allow themselves to be told the words don’t mean what they clearly mean? Yes. 

 

From “The Anti-Christian Book: Truth is Anti-Christian. The Bible tells Enormous Lies about God.”

 

Great point on Jesus always being there with Yahweh. I bring this up when apologists claim "That was the Old Testament." They want to run as far away from the OT unless it serves their purpose - they should just do like Marcion and do away with it. To my point, whenever they want to throw the old "that was the OT" phrase, I send them down a line of thinking that makes them squirm. If Jesus was always present with Yahweh, then that means Jesus was right there blessing off on the genocide, rape, and cannibalism. You can see the cogs turning and they begin to smoke.

 

How about Ezekiel 20:25-26 - God states he gave the Israelites commandments that were not good, i.e., child sacrifice. Yep, Jesus was there too giving the thumbs up. This is why fundamentalists have to store their theology in different boxes. Only by compartmentalizing can they avoid the cognitive dissonance considering these various ideas brings on.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:17 AM, Hierophant said:

 

Great point on Jesus always being there with Yahweh. I bring this up when apologists claim "That was the Old Testament." They want to run as far away from the OT unless it serves their purpose - they should just do like Marcion and do away with it. To my point, whenever they want to throw the old "that was the OT" phrase, I send them down a line of thinking that makes them squirm. If Jesus was always present with Yahweh, then that means Jesus was right there blessing off on the genocide, rape, and cannibalism. You can see the cogs turning and they begin to smoke.

 

How about Ezekiel 20:25-26 - God states he gave the Israelites commandments that were not good, i.e., child sacrifice. Yep, Jesus was there too giving the thumbs up. This is why fundamentalists have to store their theology in different boxes. Only by compartmentalizing can they avoid the cognitive dissonance considering these various ideas brings on.

John 1:1 is also a stark reminder of the presence of jesus in the old testament. 

[Dsred19]

On 7/20/2023 at 5:20 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

John 1:1 is also a stark reminder of the presence of jesus in the old testament. 

I was just about to post that very verse. I hear this all the time from a friend when I bring these things up…” that was the Old Testament, not Jesus” 

Even the New Testament in John 1:1 says they are one and the same….

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Yes, the argument about the OT not applying to us today always left me "scratching my head."  You may already be aware of this, but the words you read in the bible that are supposed to be the words of Jesus, are NOT the words of Jesus.  He wrote nothing as far as we know.  We aren't 100% sure he even existed.  What we have was written decades after he was reportedly gone, and we know that has likely been modified through the ages.  It also seems the early writers did a sloppy job of trying to tie Jesus to the Old Testament.   As Professor mentions above, the Marcion faction of the early church believed Jesus was sent to earth by a god other than the Abrahamic God.  BUUUTT, noone has ever explained which god that was!  But some of the teachings reportedly done by him (jesus) are valid concepts.

[☆ pantheory ☆]

On 7/12/2023 at 2:05 PM, RankStranger said:

 

Jesus often spoke metaphorically, and in parables.  You understand this, right?  Most non-fundamentalists do.

 

That's true. Many believe the bible must be taken literally, while others, as you explained,  realize that many of the biblical stories involve metaphors and parables. Also, the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Greek, and probably some Aramaic. then translated into almost countless other languages. Was every penning and translation by Monks and other transcribers and transcriptions inspired by God, or could there be some mis-translations in some or many of the almost countless languages?