An EVIL teaching of Jesus

[Art D]

We’ve seen two commands in the Old Testament where Yahweh says a child that curses a parent must be put to death. Jesus is as responsible for those commands as his Father because, to quote Jesus, “I and my Father are one.” So, when Yahweh was inspiring the commands, Jesus wasn’t there saying, “Now wait a minute, Dad. Let’s think this over a bit.” Rather, Jesus was there agreeing with his Father.

 

Worse, there are two instances in the New Testament where Jesus specifically cites the Old Testament commands with approval. One instance occurs in Matthew 15:1-4.

Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.

The Pharisees criticize Jesus’ followers. In turn, Jesus says the Pharisees disobey God’s command to put the cursing child to death.

 

The Bible is said to be the very Word of God. Of course, it wasn’t originally written in English, but it’s translated by scholars who spend their lives studying the original languages and who, no doubt, pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance before translating. In the Bible, we have prophets who tell us what God said, and we have a few instances of God himself speaking. In Matthew 15:1-4, we have God himself quoting himself in his very own super-duper book. We have Jesus specifically citing with approval the Old Testament commands to kill the cursing child. We have Jesus labeling those commands as commands of God.

 

Can it get any more certain than that? No. Will believers, who have been trained from childhood to believe their preacher, not their own eyes and brain, allow themselves to be told the words don’t mean what they clearly mean? Yes. 

 

From “The Anti-Christian Book: Truth is Anti-Christian. The Bible tells Enormous Lies about God.”

[RankStranger]

I may be a bit biased here... see that big glowing cross to the left.

 

But it looks to me like Jesus was clearly playing 'devil's advocate'.  Pointing out that the Pharisees themselves don't live per every jot and tittle of the law.

 

Fundamentalists rarely understand this.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

4 minutes ago, RankStranger said:

I may be a bit biased here... see that big glowing cross to the left.

 

But it looks to me like Jesus was clearly playing 'devil's advocate'.  Pointing out that the Pharisees themselves don't live per every jot and tittle of the law.

 

Fundamentalists rarely understand this.

And when jesus said, "Anyone who does not hate his own father and mother is not worthy to be my disciple" was he just playing devil's advocate then as well?  Get thee to the Den, foul godling!

[RankStranger]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

And when jesus said, "Anyone who does not hate his own father and mother is not worthy to be my disciple" was he just playing devil's advocate then as well?  Get thee to the Den, foul godling!

 

Jesus often spoke metaphorically, and in parables.  You understand this, right?  Most non-fundamentalists do.

[RankStranger]

3 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

And when jesus said, "Anyone who does not hate his own father and mother is not worthy to be my disciple" was he just playing devil's advocate then as well?  Get thee to the Den, foul godling!

 

Also I like this post 

[TABA]

I just like the epithet “Foul Godling”.  That’s worth saving for future use.  

[RankStranger]

2 minutes ago, TABA said:

I just like the epithet “Foul Godling”.  That’s worth saving for future use.  

 

I like it.  Can I have it as a tag?

[pantheory]

Luckily my own kids when they were young never cursed at me or my wife. They didn't have to fear what would happen, they already knew   So they would never have dared to do it, at least to my face or in my presence, or maybe even under their breath or even think it. Just one good swat on their butt with a belt vert rarely, with their pants down while bending over rarely, both boys and girls, was a great teacher of manners and other desired behaviors. I never did it in anger. I would wait and they would know what was coming. As the Bible says, spare the rod, spoil the child -- which I still believe today contrary to modern discipline beliefs in the northern US. But of course their knowledge of your unlimited love for them is of primary importance and must be well known to them and to all others.  The carrot and the stick teaches animals as well as children.

 

And the good and bad experiences of life teach smart adults  by the same carrot-and-stick method IMO.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, RankStranger said:

 

I like it.  Can I have it as a tag?

I have applied it as your signature.  It will appear at the bottom of your posts.  If you get tired of it, give me a holler and we'll change it. 

[RankStranger]

1 minute ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

I have applied it as your signature.  It will appear at the bottom of your posts.  If you get tired of it, give me a holler and we'll change it. 

 

Thanks, much appreciated 

[Hierophant]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:35 AM, Art D said:

We’ve seen two commands in the Old Testament where Yahweh says a child that curses a parent must be put to death. Jesus is as responsible for those commands as his Father because, to quote Jesus, “I and my Father are one.” So, when Yahweh was inspiring the commands, Jesus wasn’t there saying, “Now wait a minute, Dad. Let’s think this over a bit.” Rather, Jesus was there agreeing with his Father.

 

Worse, there are two instances in the New Testament where Jesus specifically cites the Old Testament commands with approval. One instance occurs in Matthew 15:1-4.

Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves also break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and, ‘The one who speaks evil of father or mother is to be put to death.

The Pharisees criticize Jesus’ followers. In turn, Jesus says the Pharisees disobey God’s command to put the cursing child to death.

 

The Bible is said to be the very Word of God. Of course, it wasn’t originally written in English, but it’s translated by scholars who spend their lives studying the original languages and who, no doubt, pray to the Holy Spirit for guidance before translating. In the Bible, we have prophets who tell us what God said, and we have a few instances of God himself speaking. In Matthew 15:1-4, we have God himself quoting himself in his very own super-duper book. We have Jesus specifically citing with approval the Old Testament commands to kill the cursing child. We have Jesus labeling those commands as commands of God.

 

Can it get any more certain than that? No. Will believers, who have been trained from childhood to believe their preacher, not their own eyes and brain, allow themselves to be told the words don’t mean what they clearly mean? Yes. 

 

From “The Anti-Christian Book: Truth is Anti-Christian. The Bible tells Enormous Lies about God.”

 

Great point on Jesus always being there with Yahweh. I bring this up when apologists claim "That was the Old Testament." They want to run as far away from the OT unless it serves their purpose - they should just do like Marcion and do away with it. To my point, whenever they want to throw the old "that was the OT" phrase, I send them down a line of thinking that makes them squirm. If Jesus was always present with Yahweh, then that means Jesus was right there blessing off on the genocide, rape, and cannibalism. You can see the cogs turning and they begin to smoke.

 

How about Ezekiel 20:25-26 - God states he gave the Israelites commandments that were not good, i.e., child sacrifice. Yep, Jesus was there too giving the thumbs up. This is why fundamentalists have to store their theology in different boxes. Only by compartmentalizing can they avoid the cognitive dissonance considering these various ideas brings on.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

On 7/14/2023 at 10:17 AM, Hierophant said:

 

Great point on Jesus always being there with Yahweh. I bring this up when apologists claim "That was the Old Testament." They want to run as far away from the OT unless it serves their purpose - they should just do like Marcion and do away with it. To my point, whenever they want to throw the old "that was the OT" phrase, I send them down a line of thinking that makes them squirm. If Jesus was always present with Yahweh, then that means Jesus was right there blessing off on the genocide, rape, and cannibalism. You can see the cogs turning and they begin to smoke.

 

How about Ezekiel 20:25-26 - God states he gave the Israelites commandments that were not good, i.e., child sacrifice. Yep, Jesus was there too giving the thumbs up. This is why fundamentalists have to store their theology in different boxes. Only by compartmentalizing can they avoid the cognitive dissonance considering these various ideas brings on.

John 1:1 is also a stark reminder of the presence of jesus in the old testament.