Four questions for Christians

[older]

I have some questions for any Christians that may be passing through here. I’ve been wondering about a few Bible stories and am hoping you can clear up some things I’m curious about.

 

 

Question 1:

In Deuteronomy it says that if a woman is raped in the country, she can be allowed to live because when she cried out there probably was no one there to rescue her. But if she is raped in the city she must be stoned to death because she obviously did not cry out.

 

The question is, what if the woman is raped in the suburbs? Suburbs are kind of between city and country. There quite possibly could have been people who heard her, but if you know anything about suburbs, people tend to mind their own business. A woman hollering could be a common occurrence in some neighborhoods. So it wouldn’t be fair to stone her to death, but on the other hand if the neighbors are close by she should get some sort of punishment. Perhaps she should just get a thorough whipping (The number of lashes could be calculated by the distance between her house and the neighbors.). What do you think?

 

 

Question 2:

Adam and Eve were the first humans so their children were the first kids, right? Genesis says that Eve was the mother of all, so all of Adam and Eve’s kids were brothers and sisters. So in order to populate the planet those kids had to practice incest. I think that’s kind of icky, and according to the rules in Deuteronomy it’s a no-no and if you do it you’re in big trouble with The Man. So how can this work?

 

 

Question 3:

In Exodus, a few paragraphs after the 10 Commandments, it says that if a man beats his slave and the slave lives at least two days before he dies, the man is not responsible for his death because the slave is the man’s property.

 

Now there are rules about women slaves and what to do when you sell your daughter as a slave, but there is nothing in that section about wives. So the question is: What if you beat your wife and she lives two days before she dies? Since the Bible has lots of info on buying and selling wives, a wife is therefore the man’s property, so shouldn’t it be the same as when you beat your slave?

 

 

Question 4:

In the book of Numbers, the Israelites were commanded to kill all the Midianites including all the men, pregnant women, wives, and little boys; however, the Israelites were told to keep the virgin girls for themselves.

 

Now I can’t imagine what a bunch of soldiers would want with virgin girls, but the question is this: The Bible says there were 12,000 soldiers and 32,000 virgins. Doing a little math, if each soldier got two virgins, there would be 8000 virgins left over. How, then, were these girls divided up? Having some of the soldiers share a virgin ruins the concept of having a virgin. Giving some of the soldiers three virgins each leaves 4000 soldiers with only two virgins each. That doesn’t seem fair, particularly since these guys risked their lives in a war to get this. Would the girls be distributed by rank? If so, I’d hope that the privates would be the ones to get the bonuses since they are usually the ones who do all the dirty work. But the Bible is silent on this. What could the answer be?

 

Thanks to anyone who takes time to clear up these issues for me. I’ve been confused about them for years.

 

 

 

[mwc]

4 hours ago, older said:

I have some questions for any Christians that may be passing through here. I’ve been wondering about a few Bible stories and am hoping you can clear up some things I’m curious about.

 

 

Question 1:

In Deuteronomy it says that if a woman is raped in the country, she can be allowed to live because when she cried out there probably was no one there to rescue her. But if she is raped in the city she must be stoned to death because she obviously did not cry out.

 

The question is, what if the woman is raped in the suburbs? Suburbs are kind of between city and country. There quite possibly could have been people who heard her, but if you know anything about suburbs, people tend to mind their own business. A woman hollering could be a common occurrence in some neighborhoods. So it wouldn’t be fair to stone her to death, but on the other hand if the neighbors are close by she should get some sort of punishment. Perhaps she should just get a thorough whipping (The number of lashes could be calculated by the distance between her house and the neighbors.). What do you think?

     For this one the answer should be pretty straight-forward (unlike the others).  Unlike more recent times there was a more defined line between city and country way back when.  Cities had walls and outside the walls populations got pretty sparse fairly quickly.  No real suburbs as we have them.  As cities grew beyond the walls people would build nearby and a sort of suburb would appear but it was still fairly dense in population but probably not what was something that was considered when the whole thing was written.

 

     If we imagine a law that was written for the ages, as opposed for its times, then it's pretty bad since it failed to include all the types of living conditions that would exist.  I would think the woman in the suburbs should be not be whipped but pelted with tiny pebbles until annoyed.   

 

 

4 hours ago, older said:

 

Question 2:

Adam and Eve were the first humans so their children were the first kids, right? Genesis says that Eve was the mother of all, so all of Adam and Eve’s kids were brothers and sisters. So in order to populate the planet those kids had to practice incest. I think that’s kind of icky, and according to the rules in Deuteronomy it’s a no-no and if you do it you’re in big trouble with The Man. So how can this work?

     It works the same as all other sex except the two people are brother and sister.

 

4 hours ago, older said:

 

Question 3:

In Exodus, a few paragraphs after the 10 Commandments, it says that if a man beats his slave and the slave lives at least two days before he dies, the man is not responsible for his death because the slave is the man’s property.

 

Now there are rules about women slaves and what to do when you sell your daughter as a slave, but there is nothing in that section about wives. So the question is: What if you beat your wife and she lives two days before she dies? Since the Bible has lots of info on buying and selling wives, a wife is therefore the man’s property, so shouldn’t it be the same as when you beat your slave?

     If you beat your wife and she lives two days before she dies you know she's going to make sure you're going to eat a lifetime of shit during that time.  Whoever wrote this knew it was just best to sell her right away. 

 

4 hours ago, older said:

 

Question 4:

In the book of Numbers, the Israelites were commanded to kill all the Midianites including all the men, pregnant women, wives, and little boys; however, the Israelites were told to keep the virgin girls for themselves.

 

Now I can’t imagine what a bunch of soldiers would want with virgin girls, but the question is this: The Bible says there were 12,000 soldiers and 32,000 virgins. Doing a little math, if each soldier got two virgins, there would be 8000 virgins left over. How, then, were these girls divided up? Having some of the soldiers share a virgin ruins the concept of having a virgin. Giving some of the soldiers three virgins each leaves 4000 soldiers with only two virgins each. That doesn’t seem fair, particularly since these guys risked their lives in a war to get this. Would the girls be distributed by rank? If so, I’d hope that the privates would be the ones to get the bonuses since they are usually the ones who do all the dirty work. But the Bible is silent on this. What could the answer be?

     The answer is in the bible.  We go to Solomon with his amazing wisdom and cut the remaining girls in half.  Plenty for everyone.

 

          mwc

 

[older]

Thanks for some clarifications, MWC. But I still have some problems understanding this.

 

Q1.

I can understand the walled city vs. country. Now that I think about it, I’ve seen movies that show this — everyone inside the walls living tight together, and nothing right outside for a ways. But what if she’s outside and gets nailed when pushed right up against the wall? You’d think that the guards atop the wall could hear something, unless they were on break.

 

Q2.

Artificial insemination? But did they have syringes in those days?

 

Q3.

Hm. So just sell her and save your rage for your kid who talks back to you? (But that doesn’t work either since you’re supposed to report the kid to the community and they do the stoning. You just get to watch.)

 

Anyway, if you sell her, what do you think a used wife is worth? (I got $1500 for my used VW Beetle. It had 250,000 miles on it; I think the value of a used wife would be also based on use.)

 

OTOH, Deuteronomy says that if you find uncleanliness in your wife you can divorce her, but you’d also think that before a man buys a wife he’d check to be sure she showers regularly. This is just getting more confusing.

 

Q4.

That’s not going to work, MWC. If there are 8000 leftover virgin girls and 12,000 soldiers and you cut the girls in half, then you have 16,000 girl parts, so there is still an uneven number. And also, how would you cut them? If it’s horizontally across the middle, who gets the part that counts? If it’s vertically, top-to-bottom, well, then the part that counts is ruined.

 

This is just too confusing. I’m going back to bed.

[mwc]

2 hours ago, older said:

Q1.

I can understand the walled city vs. country. Now that I think about it, I’ve seen movies that show this — everyone inside the walls living tight together, and nothing right outside for a ways. But what if she’s outside and gets nailed when pushed right up against the wall? You’d think that the guards atop the wall could hear something, unless they were on break.

     I think we've all been up against a wall at one point or another.  Everyone pretends they don't know what's going on when you're in that position.

 

2 hours ago, older said:

Q2.

Artificial insemination? But did they have syringes in those days?

     I suppose they'd need that if poking your sibling didn't work.  All animals are apparently inbred this way according to the bible.  It's part of the design.

 

2 hours ago, older said:

Q3.

Hm. So just sell her and save your rage for your kid who talks back to you? (But that doesn’t work either since you’re supposed to report the kid to the community and they do the stoning. You just get to watch.)

 

Anyway, if you sell her, what do you think a used wife is worth? (I got $1500 for my used VW Beetle. It had 250,000 miles on it; I think the value of a used wife would be also based on use.)

 

OTOH, Deuteronomy says that if you find uncleanliness in your wife you can divorce her, but you’d also think that before a man buys a wife he’d check to be sure she showers regularly. This is just getting more confusing.

     If your wife has 250,000 miles and you're beating her until she nearly dies I imagine she ain't worth much at that point.  If I saw your VW at a quarter million miles and you had recently beat the shit out of it I think we're looking at parting that thing out at best.  It's not like you've shown yourself to be a good owner.

 

     I will add, on a more serious note, that divorce happened a lot and it was easy.  The man basically just told the woman to hit the bricks and that was that (technically he had to give her a decree which was just a note that said it).  Only some societal pressure (ie. small, close-knit towns for example) kept this from happening all the time.

 

2 hours ago, older said:

Q4.

That’s not going to work, MWC. If there are 8000 leftover virgin girls and 12,000 soldiers and you cut the girls in half, then you have 16,000 girl parts, so there is still an uneven number. And also, how would you cut them? If it’s horizontally across the middle, who gets the part that counts? If it’s vertically, top-to-bottom, well, then the part that counts is ruined.

     Solomon isn't one to trifle with.  Cut them up then hide the pieces like an easter egg hunt?  Or maybe try a sort of evil santa with them?  Lots of fun for (just about) everyone?

 

          mwc

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

Hey boys! Now that we have a few xtians hanging around, maybe one or more would care to comment on this very meaningful discussion? 

 

I myself am speechless. And glad I'm not a virgin, sliced up or whole. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:32 PM, older said:

 

Thanks to anyone who takes time to clear up these issues for me. I’ve been confused about them for years.

 

I am obviously not a Christian, but it seems to me the Old Testament is a convoluted mess.

 

1 hour ago, moxieflux66 said:

 

Hey boys! Now that we have a few xtians hanging around, maybe one or more would care to comment on this very meaningful discussion? 

 

You will probably have to grab them by the ear and drag them here. 

[RaymondSheen]

18 hours ago, Weezer said:

I am obviously not a Christian, but it seems to me the Old Testament is a convoluted mess.

 

You will probably have to grab them by the ear and drag them here. 

 

I'm going to try to get to this soon. 

[older]

It's amazing that this post of mine from last September has generated some responses just today. I was lying in bed this morning between the flannel sheets and slowly coming out of my coma and thinking about one of the questions, so I must have felt the vibe.

 

What I was thinking about was Question 4, the problem of dividing 32,000 virgins up between 12,000 soldiers. As I wrote above, giving each of the 12,000 soldiers two virgins leaves 8,000 virgins left over, and the question is: What happens to them?

 

Well, upon reflection, I am inching toward an answer. First, I would think that a certain percentage of the leftover virgins are so ugly that they would just be cast aside. I don't know what that percentage might be, but I do see ugly girls from time to time and I'd say that perhaps 10 to 15 percent of them fall in the unacceptable range. So perhaps they were traded off to some other tribe in exchange for some well-trained goat herding dogs. That takes 1200 out of the mix, reducing the leftover to 6800.

 

Now these leftovers aren't physically ugly, but some of them just might be nasty or nags. I'm not sure what percentage that might be, but we've all encountered women who looked great at first but then were revealed to be toxic. I don't know what you'd do with them but you could put these extra virgins to work bottling olive oil.

 

As to the remainder, who would thus be acceptable in all categories, the problem is that sharing them ruins the concept of having a virgin, so I'm at a loss as to how to deal with them. We've got some nice white zinfandel on hand; perhaps that will lead me to an answer.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

 

 

 Toss a glass this way buddy! 

 

I was just perusing the topics and saw this. Laughed for hours and can't believe it got revived either. Not to mention our new xtian is...................taking it seriously?? 

 

 

[older]

Hey Moxie, why am I so obsessed with this? I can't seem to get it out of my mind. Help me. I don't believe in gods or spirits of any kind, so why should I be frequently thinking about these 8000 virgins? One was enough. 

[RaymondSheen]

7 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

 Toss a glass this way buddy! 

 

I was just perusing the topics and saw this. Laughed for hours and can't believe it got revived either. Not to mention our new xtian is...................taking it seriously?? 

 

 

This isn't serious? I've been answering these same questions for 30 years. I thought they were serious. I'm going to have to reevaluate my opponents. 

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

2 minutes ago, older said:

Hey Moxie, why am I so obsessed with this?

Let's take this step by step. Don't panic, just sip on that wine.....mmmmmm...isn't that tasty? 

Take a deep breath in.....................aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh...

 

3 minutes ago, older said:

I don't believe in gods or spirits of any kind, so why should I be frequently thinking about these 8000 virgins?

Now then.......feel better? Take another sip of wine............mmmmmmmmmm...lovely! 

Put down those mushrooms! Not ready for that yet..............

 

Of course you believe in spirits! They're floating around on the surface of your wine glass. Aren't they pretty?? 

 

You are not going to be attacked by ruthless virgins, older. Trust me. 

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

12 minutes ago, RIS said:

 

This isn't serious? I've been answering these same questions for 30 years. I thought they were serious. I'm going to have to reevaluate my opponents. 

 

As a matter of fact............I chose this thread to test you to see if you have a sense of humor. 

Jury's still out...............

[RaymondSheen]

14 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

As a matter of fact............I chose this thread to test you to see if you have a sense of humor. 

Jury's still out...............

 

Well, the jury can rest assured. I have very little sense at all of any kind. 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

9 hours ago, RIS said:

 

Well, the jury can rest assured. I have very little sense at all of any kind. 

You can go far here if you do. I have found most xtians do not have a sense of humor. Irony seems particularly difficult for them. 

 

If you want to be taken seriously here, you have to be able to also laugh at yourself sometimes. 

 

Or you can take another of our recent xtian's approaches and try to muscle your way in verbally. He doesn't seem to be making any friends.....

[RaymondSheen]

2 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

You can go far here if you do. I have found most xtians do not have a sense of humor. Irony seems particularly difficult for them. 

 

If you want to be taken seriously here, you have to be able to also laugh at yourself sometimes. 

 

Or you can take another of our recent xtian's approaches and try to muscle your way in verbally. He doesn't seem to be making any friends.....

 

Well, I've joined the club.

 

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

3 hours ago, RIS said:

Well, I've joined the club.

That's good! But you have to make sure to finish your homework before fun time. Don't neglect our Walter! 

[RaymondSheen]

1 minute ago, moxieflux66 said:

That's good! But you have to make sure to finish your homework before fun time. Don't neglect our Walter! 

 

Let's see . . . Walter, Walter . . . I'm new. Walter. . . 

 

Walter? 

 

Is there a link? I'm working on a @Weezer Waiting on a @TABA No Walter. Not used to names yet.  

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

That would be @walterpthefirst

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 2/11/2025 at 7:46 PM, older said:

reducing the leftover to 6800.

 

Now these leftovers aren't physically ugly, but some of them just might be nasty or nags. I'm not sure what percentage that might be, but we've all encountered women who looked great at first but then were revealed to be toxic. I don't know what you'd do with them but you could put these extra virgins to work bottling olive oil.

 

As to the remainder, who would thus be acceptable in all categories, the problem is that sharing them ruins the concept of having a virgin, so I'm at a loss as to how to deal with them. We've got some nice white zinfandel on hand; perhaps that will lead me to an answer.

 

I was lying in bed this morning thinking about this leftover ugly virgin problem and feeling terrible that you never got a satisfactory answer for this question. Obviously the xtian(s) didn't seem to help us with this, and since I think this could be a real problem of the ages, maybe we should revisit it. 

 

While I think your idea of putting the virgins to work bottling olive oil is pretty good, surely there's a better use for them somewhere, like sewing fancy underwear for the good-looking virgins! 

 

OTOH......

 

Since it's nearly Easter, maybe this idea should be reconsidered too: 

 

On 9/6/2023 at 8:48 AM, mwc said:

Solomon isn't one to trifle with.  Cut them up then hide the pieces like an easter egg hunt?

 

[Sexton Blake]

Black Nottingham Forest striker Taiwo Awoniyi is in an induced coma and receiving intensive care after emergency surgery on an abdominal injury which could have been fatal, after colliding with a post.

It seems the "GOD IS THE GREATEST" shirt that he wears on the pitch did not save him.

[☆ pantheory ☆]

On 2/11/2025 at 7:46 PM, older said:

It's amazing that this post of mine from last September has generated some responses just today. I was lying in bed this morning between the flannel sheets and slowly coming out of my coma and thinking about one of the questions, so I must have felt the vibe.

 

What I was thinking about was Question 4, the problem of dividing 32,000 virgins up between 12,000 soldiers. As I wrote above, giving each of the 12,000 soldiers two virgins leaves 8,000 virgins left over, and the question is: What happens to them?

 

Well, upon reflection, I am inching toward an answer. First, I would think that a certain percentage of the leftover virgins are so ugly that they would just be cast aside. I don't know what that percentage might be, but I do see ugly girls from time to time and I'd say that perhaps 10 to 15 percent of them fall in the unacceptable range. So perhaps they were traded off to some other tribe in exchange for some well-trained goat herding dogs. That takes 1200 out of the mix, reducing the leftover to 6800.

 

Now these leftovers aren't physically ugly, but some of them just might be nasty or nags. I'm not sure what percentage that might be, but we've all encountered women who looked great at first but then were revealed to be toxic. I don't know what you'd do with them but you could put these extra virgins to work bottling olive oil.

 

As to the remainder, who would thus be acceptable in all categories, the problem is that sharing them ruins the concept of having a virgin, so I'm at a loss as to how to deal with them. We've got some nice white zinfandel on hand; perhaps that will lead me to an answer.

 

But you forgot the automatic 72 virgins each man receives upon death from Jihad. The Quran suggests that these girls age would range from 10-13. This would seem to be a contradiction however since the only virgins remaining would certainly be ugly as you suggest, but only 9-year-olds and younger.

[Sexton Blake]

On 5/16/2025 at 3:15 AM, pantheory said:

But you forgot the automatic 72 virgins each man receives upon death from Jihad. The Quran suggests that these girls age would range from 10-13. This would seem to be a contradiction however since the only virgins remaining would certainly be ugly as you suggest, but only 9-year-olds and younger.

 

The few pages of the Birmingham quran:

 

https://jihadwatch.org/2015/08/scholars-catch-up-to-spencer-realize-ancient-quran-challenges-islams-origins

 

Which predates the Cairo quran used by muslims now, tells us that it is 72 WHITE GRAPES, a food offering for those who have travelled from death to Paradise.

 

Apparently Allah does not run a brothel in the Afterlife.

[☆ pantheory ☆]

2 hours ago, Sexton Blake said:

 

The few pages of the Birmingham quran:

 

https://jihadwatch.org/2015/08/scholars-catch-up-to-spencer-realize-ancient-quran-challenges-islams-origins

 

Which predates the Cairo quran used by muslims now, tells us that it is 72 WHITE GRAPES, a food offering for those who have travelled from death to Paradise.

 

Apparently Allah does not run a brothel in the Afterlife.

 

Thanks, don't recall ever hearing of the Cairo Quran version.

 

Although old Arabic, it is usually not translated into 72 virgins by moral Muslims, more aggressive translations interpret white as also being, clean pure or virgin, and grapes being plural, that which is lusted after in the desert. Even the number 72 is questionable from the original "old Arabic." So Jihadists stretch a lot to say 72 virgins are the prize for a martyr of Jihad. Another take from the translation is "that which will be given after Jihad." And that has been turned into humor. Somewhere else in the Quran it explains a virgin as girls from 10-13 years of age and older (if ugly). But after Jihad the only virgins left would be ugly 9-year-olds and younger