Greetings Everyone!

[AnonSan]

Hello Everyone!

 

My name is AnonSan. I am reaching into my 30s and I grew up in a non-traditional church environment from Asia. The church I grew up in established their first American flagship in Anaheim, California which became popular during the 70s-80s. Since then, my family raised me in the church's legalistic and cult-like environment. I was taught to look down anything that God would not approve and to not take in worldly pleasures that may distract us to read scriptures/attend church regularly. I did not have many friends outside of my family's church growing up as my mom's gatekeeping ways scared off most of my secular peers.

 

My family for the most part did not attend to my emotional needs and have shown numerous instances that their church and conservative beliefs came before my interests. I don't think my parents felt truly proud of me other than when I got baptized against my wishes. My lifelong milestones were seen as insignificant, such as when my mom once said, "You graduated college with honors only because it was all of God's work (without God, you would have never made it, even with your hard work)." My parents' whole social circle only consists of their church members who look up tp my parents, which amplified my family's need to uphold their social reputation. I have a (golden-child) older brother, but his experience is very different from mine's. He took advantage of the privileged Christian upbringing and left it as soon as he was more financially independent. However, he was physically and verbally abusive towards me, just like our mom, behind closed doors and popular in the public eye. My parents did little to correct such damaging behavior as they are more preoccupied with church duties and keeping up with their public image. Perhaps they think as long as they are faithful to God, everything will fall into place. Yet, my parents implemented many (sexist) restrictions whenever I participated secular activities outside of the church for the sake of my "purity", but none of them were applied to my older brother. I left Christianity for good after experiencing undue trauma caused by my family's priority in church over my well-being. 

 

Since then, I have been living with my husband with my newfound secular lifestyle since 2020. I have low contact with my parents and rarely talk to my older brother. My family has yet to take accountability for their actions and prefer sweeping it under the rug. I am in the process learning to love myself more and improving my self-esteem.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

Welcome! I am so glad you are here! 

I am Moxieflux66. I've only been here myself for a week or so. Everyone I've met here is as good as it gets so be ready to feel protected in this most safe of environments. You will have lots of big brothers here who won't abuse you. 

I have family issues over xtianity myself (as is evidenced in my own introduction; I was a bit testy that day) but nothing that cannot be overcome with time, support and nurturing. You came to the right place! 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Welcome, little sister!  I am glad you found us.  I share a lot of the same experiences with church that you have endured, from an abusive older brother (and mother) to parents who cared more about saving face than they did about their own kids.  I left the church, and pentecostal christianity, behind in 2003.   My deconversion from religion was rather brutal; and lasted nearly four years, during which time I went through major depression, disillusionment, anger... everything.  Eventually, I began to rebuild my life, redefine myself, and truly become the captain of my own ship.

 

I know it seems difficult right now, and having broken, dysfunctional relationships with family seems impossible; but, as the Buddha himself said, everything is impermanent.  This moment is only one of many, many moments that will make up your life.  Live in this moment, embrace it for all that it is; but always remember that this moment will pass.  And the "you" who experienced this moment will pass with it, like the butterfly who experienced the cocoon. 

 

Please reach out to us if there is anything we can do to help you.  

[◊ Weezer ◊]

WELCOME AnonSan!  I echo the above replies.  It is very sad that the legalistic religions sometimes ignore the needs that we all have for nurturing and belonging.  Especially needed by children, but we never outgrow the need.  I am glad you had the emotional strength you needed to pull away from family.  And I hope you have the strength to not allow anyone else to treat you badly.  

 

I also grew up in a legalistic religion that required the proper "rituals" for the salvation of our "souls".   I hope you will write a testimony and tell us more about the things you need to vent.  If you haven't already done so, read some of our testimonies, and discussions in other forums. HANG IN THERE!  Disappointing family and having strained relations is not easy, but if you are like me, you will find a peace you didn't have before, and will always be glad you stepped away from the religion.  I have been out 40 years now, and although it has been lonely at times, I have never been sorry I left.

 

If you don't mind telling us, what was the name of the religious group you left?

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

4 minutes ago, Weezer said:

legalistic religions

I don't think I've heard of this before. ??

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

I spent most of my high school years near Anaheim in the 70's. What's the name of the church you came from? I hope it's not the Crystal Cathedral...Reverend Schuller? I've actually attended church there. Even if it's not, I remember going to a 'drive-in' church where speakers were in the parking lot like a drive in movie and you didn't have to leave your car to hear the service. It was pretty bizarre. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

2 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

I don't think I've heard of this before. ??   (legalistic churches)

Churches that hinge your salvation on you following certain rituals.  Like being baptized by emersion.  And attending church regularly, etc.  You follow their "laws" (they call commandments) or you go to hell.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

1 minute ago, Weezer said:

Churches that hinge your salvation on you following certain rituals.  Like being baptized by emersion.  And attending church regularly, etc.  You follow their "laws" (they call commandments) or you go to hell.

Oh. Don't they all??? It's hard to say. I mostly attended on base chapels when I was a kid (my dad was in the Air Force), which were very different than churches I later attended on the 'outside'. Mostly they were mild (no hellfire and brimstone), bland and dull, especially for a kid. 

[AnonSan]

@Weezer: I grew up in the Local Churches (Lord's Recovery) whose founder was Witness Lee. The non-profit organization that supports the entire group function nation/world wide is called The Living Stream Ministry (LSM). Each branch (locality) is named by the town/city each are located in. So, a branch that has a location in a town (Anaheim) is named as The Church in Anaheim. Apply that to all the branches under the common name "The Church in __town/city name__". Reason for the unusual naming stemmed from the founder's ideal of churches not a physical place of worship, but as the gathering of saints "under one body, one name, one universe." If you are already confused by this explanation, you are not alone.  A lot of the teachings explained by Witness Lee is foreign and controversial among other denominations and Christian organizations that have questioned/challenged his theology and legalistic practices.

(Spoiler alert: The Local Churches think other denominations are inferior that they themselves being better than them for having the "highest gospel" (truth) to the Bible interpretations, so the group has Witness Lee's annotations in our own published Bible which we call it "The Recovery Version." ALLEGEDLY, the LSM previously filed defamation lawsuits against those who may have enough influence to give potential members second thoughts in being part of the Lord's Recovery movement. However, I do not know the outcome of the trials (if there were any) as the proceedings and litigation processes took place behind closed doors...)

 

What I have explained and experienced already is only the tip of the iceberg. Once you learn more about the Local Churches through the secular lens, you will realize that the whole organization is another manufactured, counterfeit Christian denomination that is appealing to the Chinese majority...The organization even has its own extensive 2-4 year training school (Full Time Training in Anaheim- abbr. FTTA) for those who study the teachings the local church and the founder's theologies in much greater depth since 1989. 

 

I highly recommend looking into Jo Casteel's "Open Letter to the Saints in the Lord's Recovery." It's a bit of a read but she eloquently explained why she left while exposing the emotional, spiritual, physical, and mental abuses within the organization. Everything I had issues with the Lord's Recovery, that I could not explain into words back then, is all compiled in that letter. As expected, it caused a stir among the members that the governing leaders in the LSM were denouncing the letter as Satan's work and outcasting Casteel as mentally insane. 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

I don't understand the movement toward franchise churches other than becoming a DEN OF THIEVES. Calvary Chapel, of which my sister is a part, has been a member for decades already. Criminal enterprise if you ask me. Look at the International House of Prayer; many franchise churches, all with sexual abuse allegations brought by the elders of the franchises. In fact, the original founder of the outfit, Mike Bickell, is also facing allegations. The fish rots from the head down, doesn't it? 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

4 hours ago, AnonSan said:

@Weezer: I grew up in the Local Churches (Lord's Recovery) whose founder was Witness Lee. The non-profit organization that supports the entire group function nation/world wide is called The Living Stream Ministry (LSM). Each branch (locality) is named by the town/city each are located in. So, a branch that has a location in a town (Anaheim) is named as The Church in Anaheim. Apply that to all the branches under the common name "The Church in __town/city name__". Reason for the unusual naming stemmed from the founder's ideal of churches not a physical place of worship, but as the gathering of saints "under one body, one name, one universe." If you are already confused by this explanation, you are not alone.  A lot of the teachings explained by Witness Lee is foreign and controversial among other denominations and Christian organizations that have questioned/challenged his theology and legalistic practices.

(Spoiler alert: The Local Churches think other denominations are inferior that they themselves being better than them for having the "highest gospel" (truth) to the Bible interpretations, so the group has Witness Lee's annotations in our own published Bible which we call it "The Recovery Version." ALLEGEDLY, the LSM previously filed defamation lawsuits against those who may have enough influence to give potential members second thoughts in being part of the Lord's Recovery movement. However, I do not know the outcome of the trials (if there were any) as the proceedings and litigation processes took place behind closed doors...)

 

What I have explained and experienced already is only the tip of the iceberg. Once you learn more about the Local Churches through the secular lens, you will realize that the whole organization is another manufactured, counterfeit Christian denomination that is appealing to the Chinese majority...The organization even has its own extensive 2-4 year training school (Full Time Training in Anaheim- abbr. FTTA) for those who study the teachings the local church and the founder's theologies in much greater depth since 1989. 

 

I highly recommend looking into Jo Casteel's "Open Letter to the Saints in the Lord's Recovery." It's a bit of a read but she eloquently explained why she left while exposing the emotional, spiritual, physical, and mental abuses within the organization. Everything I had issues with the Lord's Recovery, that I could not explain into words back then, is all compiled in that letter. As expected, it caused a stir among the members that the governing leaders in the LSM were denouncing the letter as Satan's work and outcasting Casteel as mentally insane. 

 

The doctrine sounds similar to the Church of Christ my parents belonged to.  Thought they were the only true Church. 

 

What are the things you would like to talk about here?  We want to be as helpful as possible.  And hope you will join in the different conversations. 

[AnonSan]

15 hours ago, Weezer said:

 

The doctrine sounds similar to the Church of Christ my parents belonged to.  Thought they were the only true Church. 

 

What are the things you would like to talk about here?  We want to be as helpful as possible.  And hope you will join in the different conversations. 

 

Looks like a lot of church organizations (and cults) often advertise themselves as being the true church to gain more members.

 

There is a lot I want to talk about- the many experiences we see often in other churches and practices exclusive to the local churches that are cult-like. Since I left 5 years ago, I have already received push back from my family over the years and recently got scrutiny from ex-local church members online when they realized I no longer walk in the Christian faith. It's hard to find a support group who can truly sympathize, understand, and share (traumatic) experiences as a former Christian conforming to their institutional practices. 

[AnonSan]

On 11/4/2023 at 6:56 PM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Welcome, little sister!  I am glad you found us.  I share a lot of the same experiences with church that you have endured, from an abusive older brother (and mother) to parents who cared more about saving face than they did about their own kids.  I left the church, and pentecostal christianity, behind in 2003.   My deconversion from religion was rather brutal; and lasted nearly four years, during which time I went through major depression, disillusionment, anger... everything.  Eventually, I began to rebuild my life, redefine myself, and truly become the captain of my own ship.

 

I know it seems difficult right now, and having broken, dysfunctional relationships with family seems impossible; but, as the Buddha himself said, everything is impermanent.  This moment is only one of many, many moments that will make up your life.  Live in this moment, embrace it for all that it is; but always remember that this moment will pass.  And the "you" who experienced this moment will pass with it, like the butterfly who experienced the cocoon. 

 

Please reach out to us if there is anything we can do to help you.  

 

I am so glad to find you all here! I will definitely share my experiences with everyone.

 

Pentecostal Christianity is tough! My best friend of 10 years grew up in it and tells me it is rather extreme compared to other church denominations. Both parents are pastors in the community so attending church at least 3-4 times a week was the norm. My friend experienced speaking in tongues and has seen his parents conduct exorcisms that took place after their evening sermons. His parents still love him despite his sexual orientation, but ever since he came out his parents have started to discredit more of his "progressive" thoughts. Luckily, he has started to go outside of his home more often away from his church's oppressive mindset. 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

1 hour ago, AnonSan said:

 

Looks like a lot of church organizations (and cults) often advertise themselves as being the true church to gain more members.

 

There is a lot I want to talk about- the many experiences we see often in other churches and practices exclusive to the local churches that are cult-like. Since I left 5 years ago, I have already received push back from my family over the years and recently got scrutiny from ex-local church members online when they realized I no longer walk in the Christian faith. It's hard to find a support group who can truly sympathize, understand, and share (traumatic) experiences as a former Christian conforming to their institutional practices. 

I feel stalked online too. My sister and her cult. But oddly, with these kind community members' protection, I feel much bolder in facing the possibility of being found and simply confronting her. If she wants to eavesdrop, then BRING IT BABY! I've got big brothers now! We will protect you too. 

Yes, the entire reason I am here is because I've never found a group like this. And we will help as best we can. I didn't join too long ago but the cause is worthy and solace can be had here. 

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

1 hour ago, AnonSan said:

 

I am so glad to find you all here! I will definitely share my experiences with everyone.

 

Pentecostal Christianity is tough! My best friend of 10 years grew up in it and tells me it is rather extreme compared to other church denominations. Both parents are pastors in the community so attending church at least 3-4 times a week was the norm. My friend experienced speaking in tongues and has seen his parents conduct exorcisms that took place after their evening sermons. His parents still love him despite his sexual orientation, but ever since he came out his parents have started to discredit more of his "progressive" thoughts. Luckily, he has started to go outside of his home more often away from his church's oppressive mindset. 

Pretty sure this is my sister's gig too. But there are members here to help you address that. Don't invalidate anything you feel by being pressured via guilt. Xtians prey on and manipulate entirely on an emotional level and when I say it's an abusive relationship, I've had those and know the tactics and similarities are the same. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

1 hour ago, AnonSan said:

 

I have already received push back from my family over the years and recently got scrutiny from ex-local church members online when they realized I no longer walk in the Christian faith. 

 

It can be a frustrating and lonely walk after leaving the faith.  I was working for a church related social service agency and almost all our social contacts were church related.  I have tried to take on the attitude of the Catholic protestor Martin Luther from the middle ages.  Someone asked him where he would stand if the church kicked him out.  His reply was, "under the sky".   That's the way I feel at times living in a very conservative area of the country.  

 

Do you have any friends or relatives who accept your non-belief?

[AnonSan]

56 minutes ago, Weezer said:

It can be a frustrating and lonely walk after leaving the faith.  I was working for a church related social service agency and almost all our social contacts were church related.  I have tried to take on the attitude of the Catholic protestor Martin Luther from the middle ages.  Someone asked him where he would stand if the church kicked him out.  His reply was, "under the sky".   That's the way I feel at times living in a very conservative area of the country.  

 

Do you have any friends or relatives who accept your non-belief?

 

My husband came from a loose Catholic background, but from a very young age knows well to avoid being part of a church and being devout from a young age.  When I told several stories about my family's church to my husband, he found my church weird and depriving of free will and critical thinking. He understands why I left my family's church for sure. We consider ourselves agnostic:  we both believe there is a higher power that made the universe, but not through artificial religious constructs and institutions. 

[Casualfanboy16]

Hii, @AnonSan!! I'm a bit late to drop by and say hi, but anyway, I'm Casualfanboy16 (or Casual for short). I've been on the forum for a few months now!! Glad you found us!! You've really come to the right place!

 

Just like you, I'm in the process of repairing my self-esteem and working on loving myself more. While I can't entirely relate to your situation, I do relate to it to some extent... sort of. My parents have shown numerous times that their Conservative, Christian beliefs above all else have been more important to them than me living authentically as a gay man. They also, especially recently, have been trying to pressure me into joining this Young Adult Group full of local churchgoers, which I refuse to go to for obvious reasons looollll.

 

I hope you are doing well on your journey and will continue to hang out with us heathens here at Ex-C! We very much appreciate your company!

 

Warmest regards,

Casual

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

2 minutes ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

They also, especially recently, have been trying to pressure me into joining this Young Adult Group full of local churchgoers, which I refuse to go to for obvious reasons looollll.

How horrifying! Clearly you know not to do that. GOOD. I think that's plenty of reason to love yourself more! 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

4 hours ago, AnonSan said:

Looks like a lot of church organizations (and cults) often advertise themselves as being the true church to gain more members.

You're completely right. A lot of competition out there. 

[Casualfanboy16]

2 hours ago, moxieflux66 said:

How horrifying! Clearly you know not to do that. GOOD. I think that's plenty of reason to love yourself more! 

Yeah, I actually did cave into the pressure a couple months ago because here's the thing. Like, I  was told that this young adult group wasn't going to be focused around Christianity- by someone who attended the church lmao. He was the one who approached me about it in the first place. I didn't attend it for a while after that, but my parents heard about it and insisted that I should go. I was still actively like "no", but eventually I caved in and went.

 

You could imagine my suprise when we did, in fact, talk about God lol. They split up the boys and girls into separate groups and I don't remember all the things they discussed, but we did get to a point where we discussed a high point of the week, a low point of the week, and a moment where we incorporated God into the week or something like that. I just made up a bullshit story like "oh, I went for a walk outside and prayed and gave glory to the lord". I didn't enjoy that, and never went back again lol. I don't care how many times I hear "they don't do stuff like that all the time". I'm not giving it a second chance. I gave Christianity waaaaay too many second chances.

 

I went through an entire PreK-12th grade Christian school education. I was made to go to church almost every Sunday to boring services that I had to sit through, begrudgingly waiting it out so I could dash out the door and get myself a hot chocolate from the Keurig out in the lobby. I wasted several years I could've spent loving myself for who I am doing the exact opposite to please someone that didn't even exist, and also my parents. I'm not going back. I'm not giving it a second chance. It is finished.

 

-Casual

[TheRedneckProfessor]

6 hours ago, AnonSan said:

 

I am so glad to find you all here! I will definitely share my experiences with everyone.

 

Pentecostal Christianity is tough! My best friend of 10 years grew up in it and tells me it is rather extreme compared to other church denominations. Both parents are pastors in the community so attending church at least 3-4 times a week was the norm. My friend experienced speaking in tongues and has seen his parents conduct exorcisms that took place after their evening sermons. His parents still love him despite his sexual orientation, but ever since he came out his parents have started to discredit more of his "progressive" thoughts. Luckily, he has started to go outside of his home more often away from his church's oppressive mindset. 

I was educated from elementary school through university in pentecostal schools.  My family went to church, at a minimum, 3 times a week, plus school was just an extension of the church.  The university I went to had church services every weekday; and attendance was mandatory.  Looking back now, I don't really know how I survived it... never really being able to get away from the church and have a space that was just my own.  But I finally did escape.  These days, I take comfort in my family and meditation.  

 

I'm sorry about your friend.  I've also had a few friends who were rejected by the church because of their sexual orientation.  I think that is one of the most hateful aspects of the church.

 

 

[AnonSan]

17 hours ago, Casualfanboy16 said:

I was made to go to church almost every Sunday to boring services that I had to sit through, begrudgingly waiting it out so I could dash out the door and get myself a hot chocolate from the Keurig out in the lobby. I wasted several years I could've spent loving myself for who I am doing the exact opposite to please someone that didn't even exist, and also my parents. I'm not going back. I'm not giving it a second chance. It is finished.

 

-Casual

 

That was me trying to go through Sunday services through the very end for free lunches. My church had "love feasts" or "Sunday potlucks" which families cook sharable-sized dish and the church members would eat lunch together after service around 12PM. However, they rarely end on time because our church members enjoy the sermons too much that they always wanted to hear more of it. Meanwhile, I was hangry and mentally withering inside. Once I stopped going on Sundays and made lunch at home, I realized how much free time I had and wasted so much time just waiting for food. Plus, I was able to cook more and improve recipes. 

 

[Casualfanboy16]

7 hours ago, AnonSan said:

 

That was me trying to go through Sunday services through the very end for free lunches. My church had "love feasts" or "Sunday potlucks" which families cook sharable-sized dish and the church members would eat lunch together after service around 12PM. However, they rarely end on time because our church members enjoy the sermons too much that they always wanted to hear more of it. Meanwhile, I was hangry and mentally withering inside. Once I stopped going on Sundays and made lunch at home, I realized how much free time I had and wasted so much time just waiting for food. Plus, I was able to cook more and improve recipes. 

 

The name "love feast" sounds oddly sinister to me lmao. I do get hangry myself. Don't mess with me on an empty stomach lmfaooo!!

 

I stopped attending church a long while ago. I hated going anyway. Just having time to myself instead of going to church is so nice. I should improve my cooking skills tbh. It's been something I've been slacking on cuz I get lazy lmao.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 11/6/2023 at 8:45 AM, AnonSan said:

recently got scrutiny from ex-local church members online when they realized I no longer walk in the Christian faith. It's hard to find a support group who can truly sympathize, understand, and share (traumatic) experiences as a former Christian conforming to their institutional practices. 

Can you tell us more about the scrutiny from local ex members? What happened?