An Anti-cattle call for my soul. Right here and now.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

This testimony is in honor of my mother, who passed away in 2007. She was the only true Christian I ever knew.

Though this testimony is necessary, for a variety of reasons, it is perhaps the hardest thing I'll ever do. But one of the things leftover from my christian experiences is that to do good is to honor God and that spirit has never left me over the years though the words to express it has. Christianity, in all fairness, has in part influenced my worldview and is relevant to this thread, this website's purpose and for what I hope is the greater good of all who will read this.

 

I was born and raised in the Protestant Church, where I spent most of my Christian life in military chapels and religion was separated into Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish. One 'shift' preceded or succeeded the other so, in true military fashion it was orderly and generic. Services tended to be bland and ritualistic and not for the hungover or kids, who tended to fall asleep.

 

When the Viet Nam war called for my dad, my family moved to Florida for a couple of months so he could train at the base before being deployed. For the first time I went to a church off base and experienced the real hell fire-and-brimstone sermons Southern Baptists are known for. I was terrified.

My sister got saved during one of those horror shows, and to this day uses it as a blunt instrument to us 'unbelieving' siblings. What a racket!

But that's what brought me here, the anger that no matter how happy I might be, the Christians follow you like the Terminator. They can't seem to ever be happy for you or leave well enough alone!

 

But I digress.....

 

Dad went to Viet Nam, we lived in Iowa while he was gone. We regularly went to church at whatever church we attended, but I can't remember one single day of it, for some reason. Probably due to its bland and un-engaging nature and since I was a kid.

 

Dad was gone for more than two years at war. Mom did whatever she could to raise us singlehandedly and when Dad finally came back he was withdrawn and quiet, uninvolved and separate. We went through the motions as a family, but I got the sense Dad was never going to be the same.

When he finally retired after 20 years in the military, we moved to the Los Angeles area and bought a house. I spent 3 ½ years of high school in the area and eventually told my mom I wanted to stop going to church. My boyfriend had invited me to go to first a Krishna Ashram and then a Buddhist Temple. We went a few times and it was profound in my spiritual experience, as it emphasized the inner rather than the outer life. I will always be grateful for the freedom my mom gave me to explore my spirituality in my own way though she remained a devout Christian.

 

I heard Mom talking to Dad before we moved about her concerns that due to the big city, the drug availability would be worrisome and she was right. This girl right here caused more problems for good old ma than would break a hundred hearts, thanks to the wide availability of street drugs. My friends and I did plenty and did often and it seemed at the time way better than anything religion could offer. It felt good!

 

And so naturally, my church going/Buddha seeking days were not in the front row of priorities.Then my boyfriend and I had to confront an unpleasant surprise: I was pregnant. We had to get married, his mother insisted. And so we did. In Las Vegas. In a drive through chapel. But that's not important.

 

After that, when I was around 2 months pregnant, I agreed to attend a church service that was situated in a strip mall and had been a theater or something else in the space's former life. It was filled with theater seats as though an opera would be more appropriate, but those spaces were popular at the time and held lots of people for the spectacle, which included all the speaking in tongues, falling on the floor, thrashing and gnashing of teeth from the entire front of the stage, writhing like snakes in alleged ecstasy. It was a spiritual orgy!

 

Well, nothing happened to me that night at that place, but it had something of a delayed reaction. Maybe I went home and prayed a lot, I don't remember but something happened that seemed to change me, something I had not experienced before. Was it real this time?

 

I 'tried' to be saved before but it never 'worked'. The promises of the church were that Jesus would transform my life into the type of person I wanted to be, full of everything good there was to be had. I expected nothing less than full time bliss, which would make everything else just so much easier. Where had it been all my life, with such fervent effort and devoted heart? It was unfair enough I had to wait that long for my reward!

 

But that time, it somehow stuck. I'd done it right, finally, at the ripe old age of 20, and now everything would be great and happily-ever-after. Yay! My husband and I were baptized on the same day. I was getting more pregnant but I still had the 'feeling' I was saved. I read the Bible studiously. I was truly content. I went to church with my husband and all was as it should be.

 

Until the baby was born. I'd hoped and tried to plan for a home birth but the opposite happened. When it was said and done my son was born by Cesarean Section at less than 6 pounds. He spent the first 24 hours in an incubator. I spent it recovering from major surgery and since I was unconscious when the surgery was done I didn't even meet my son until 24 hours after he was born.

 

After the surgery that Christian bliss wore off immediately, as if it was severed along with my body and child. That spirit was gone as fast as it had appeared. Knowing what I know now, I question the validity of calling it a conversion or simply the hormonal process of procreation at work. Nothing mystical or attributable to God, Christianity or anything associated with religion. Just good old fashioned motherhood/biology.

 

My faith lingered nonetheless, in tatters but not quite finished. I was still a seeker and didn't want to give up on what I thought had worked, but I'd simply fallen away from. I could surely get it back.

 

My tiny family, consisting of my semi-truck driving husband, our son of a year or so old, and I set out from Los Angles in 1979 to move north into northern Mendocino County, California, bordering the infamous Emerald Triangle, the eventual pot growing capital of the country, to settle and move out of the city to a more rural place to raise our family. Living among the redwood trees was something profound and wondrous.

 

My husband had to take a job truck driving that kept him away from home 6 days a week. The 7^th day when he came home he slept most of the time. With a child and no husband in a strange new place it was challenging so say the least. I tried the closest local church, bringing my year old baby with me. There were five or six congregants  in attendance. The place felt so gloomy I never went back.

 

My faith severely failed me mostly on my own with no support, a child to raise mostly singlehandedly and no one to turn to.

And then someone entered my life that profoundly changed me and the entire direction of my life. I consider him a special miracle and a testament to what eventually really saved me, my soul and my purpose.

 

It is also in his honor I dedicate this testimony, for without him, none of the rest of my life could have been possible. He died not long after my mother and I give him due credit, as if he were on a special mission especially for me. I honor his life, his presence and for all the good he has wrought thanks to his generous time spent with me and with my children. He was not a christian but saw the pain I carried because of the damage. He set about to save me (and my children) from it.

He was a recent honors graduate of the University of California Berkeley, a student majoring in religious studies and minoring in Christianity. He, being an intellectual of the highest degree I've personally ever known, took utter compassion on me, took me under his wing, most importantly DEPROGRAMMED ME, and supported me throughout the process, like a personal spiritual trainer. He stuck by me, almost as if it were his mission in life to do so. He had the kind of dedication I see right here on this website and because of the profound experience and freedom I had with this revelation of consciousness, I hope to further that goal right here with all who are in need. In his honor; I think he would heartily approve.

 

Most importantly, he encouraged me to enter college so I could gain enough knowledge to reinforce my newfound de-programmed-ness. I only had two years of community college but it made more difference in my life than all the previous years combined. I was on the path to progress thanks to him, and it translated into being able to help my children as well. His legacy has had a profound impact that cannot be matched and it was in service to true compassion for me and for my kids. I never found such a thing in a Christian either before or after my Christian experience. Not bad for a heathen!

 

I see the need for religious connection as valid and worthy. I know what it feels like to have that aching need for bliss; we are all hard wired to need that as a human species. I know the pain of failing to find that bliss we all seek, whatever path our lives lead us in. And I know the feeling of unfairness that naturally follows from still not knowing, in the face of all our efforts, to remain unsatisfied that promise of bliss has not been met.

 

In the end, after 65 years of seeking, I may never know for sure what awaits me. My life has been a journey, and every scar to me has become a blessing in disguise. Every failure contains the seeds of success. I heard a woman recently who had been trying to sell her first book proclaim, “People are able to sell a good story every single day. Why not me?” She had tried selling her book and been rejected 43 times. But after that, she was on a major news network talking about her book.

If it only takes 43 times trying, imagine what a hundred might get you!

 

And in closing, my spiritual journey continues. I am not 'there' but every step brings me closer to that bliss, including both feeling it and thinking it. Every bit of my being is engaged in this seeking and I cannot and will not stop until my life is over. Why not? The fun is in the journey, not necessarily the destination.

 

I love you all.

The best is yet to come.

 

 

 

 

 

[pantheory]

On 11/8/2023 at 8:16 AM, moxieflux66 said:

This testimony is in honor of my mother, who passed away in 2007. She was the only true Christian I ever knew.

Though this testimony is necessary, for a variety of reasons, it is perhaps the hardest thing I'll ever do. But one of the things leftover from my christian experiences is that to do good is to honor God and that spirit has never left me over the years though the words to express it has. Christianity, in all fairness, has in part influenced my worldview and is relevant to this thread, this website's purpose and for what I hope is the greater good of all who will read this.

 

I was born and raised in the Protestant Church, where I spent most of my Christian life in military chapels and religion was separated into Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish. One 'shift' preceded or succeeded the other so, in true military fashion it was orderly and generic. Services tended to be bland and ritualistic and not for the hungover or kids, who tended to fall asleep.

 

When the Viet Nam war called for my dad, my family moved to Florida for a couple of months so he could train at the base before being deployed. For the first time I went to a church off base and experienced the real hell fire-and-brimstone sermons Southern Baptists are known for. I was terrified.

My sister got saved during one of those horror shows, and to this day uses it as a blunt instrument to us 'unbelieving' siblings. What a racket!

But that's what brought me here, the anger that no matter how happy I might be, the Christians follow you like the Terminator. They can't seem to ever be happy for you or leave well enough alone!

 

But I digress.....

 

Dad went to Viet Nam, we lived in Iowa while he was gone. We regularly went to church at whatever church we attended, but I can't remember one single day of it, for some reason. Probably due to its bland and un-engaging nature and since I was a kid.

 

Dad was gone for more than two years at war. Mom did whatever she could to raise us singlehandedly and when Dad finally came back he was withdrawn and quiet, uninvolved and separate. We went through the motions as a family, but I got the sense Dad was never going to be the same.

When he finally retired after 20 years in the military, we moved to the Los Angeles area and bought a house. I spent 3 ½ years of high school in the area and eventually told my mom I wanted to stop going to church. My boyfriend had invited me to go to first a Krishna Ashram and then a Buddhist Temple. We went a few times and it was profound in my spiritual experience, as it emphasized the inner rather than the outer life. I will always be grateful for the freedom my mom gave me to explore my spirituality in my own way though she remained a devout Christian.

 

I heard Mom talking to Dad before we moved about her concerns that due to the big city, the drug availability would be worrisome and she was right. This girl right here caused more problems for good old ma than would break a hundred hearts, thanks to the wide availability of street drugs. My friends and I did plenty and did often and it seemed at the time way better than anything religion could offer. It felt good!

 

And so naturally, my church going/Buddha seeking days were not in the front row of priorities.Then my boyfriend and I had to confront an unpleasant surprise: I was pregnant. We had to get married, his mother insisted. And so we did. In Las Vegas. In a drive through chapel. But that's not important.

 

After that, when I was around 2 months pregnant, I agreed to attend a church service that was situated in a strip mall and had been a theater or something else in the space's former life. It was filled with theater seats as though an opera would be more appropriate, but those spaces were popular at the time and held lots of people for the spectacle, which included all the speaking in tongues, falling on the floor, thrashing and gnashing of teeth from the entire front of the stage, writhing like snakes in alleged ecstasy. It was a spiritual orgy!

 

Well, nothing happened to me that night at that place, but it had something of a delayed reaction. Maybe I went home and prayed a lot, I don't remember but something happened that seemed to change me, something I had not experienced before. Was it real this time?

 

I 'tried' to be saved before but it never 'worked'. The promises of the church were that Jesus would transform my life into the type of person I wanted to be, full of everything good there was to be had. I expected nothing less than full time bliss, which would make everything else just so much easier. Where had it been all my life, with such fervent effort and devoted heart? It was unfair enough I had to wait that long for my reward!

 

But that time, it somehow stuck. I'd done it right, finally, at the ripe old age of 20, and now everything would be great and happily-ever-after. Yay! My husband and I were baptized on the same day. I was getting more pregnant but I still had the 'feeling' I was saved. I read the Bible studiously. I was truly content. I went to church with my husband and all was as it should be.

 

Until the baby was born. I'd hoped and tried to plan for a home birth but the opposite happened. When it was said and done my son was born by Cesarean Section at less than 6 pounds. He spent the first 24 hours in an incubator. I spent it recovering from major surgery and since I was unconscious when the surgery was done I didn't even meet my son until 24 hours after he was born.

 

After the surgery that Christian bliss wore off immediately, as if it was severed along with my body and child. That spirit was gone as fast as it had appeared. Knowing what I know now, I question the validity of calling it a conversion or simply the hormonal process of procreation at work. Nothing mystical or attributable to God, Christianity or anything associated with religion. Just good old fashioned motherhood/biology.

 

My faith lingered nonetheless, in tatters but not quite finished. I was still a seeker and didn't want to give up on what I thought had worked, but I'd simply fallen away from. I could surely get it back.

 

My tiny family, consisting of my semi-truck driving husband, our son of a year or so old, and I set out from Los Angles in 1979 to move north into northern Mendocino County, California, bordering the infamous Emerald Triangle, the eventual pot growing capital of the country, to settle and move out of the city to a more rural place to raise our family. Living among the redwood trees was something profound and wondrous.

 

My husband had to take a job truck driving that kept him away from home 6 days a week. The 7^th day when he came home he slept most of the time. With a child and no husband in a strange new place it was challenging so say the least. I tried the closest local church, bringing my year old baby with me. There were five or six congregants  in attendance. The place felt so gloomy I never went back.

 

My faith severely failed me mostly on my own with no support, a child to raise mostly singlehandedly and no one to turn to.

And then someone entered my life that profoundly changed me and the entire direction of my life. I consider him a special miracle and a testament to what eventually really saved me, my soul and my purpose.

 

It is also in his honor I dedicate this testimony, for without him, none of the rest of my life could have been possible. He died not long after my mother and I give him due credit, as if he were on a special mission especially for me. I honor his life, his presence and for all the good he has wrought thanks to his generous time spent with me and with my children. He was not a christian but saw the pain I carried because of the damage. He set about to save me (and my children) from it.

He was a recent honors graduate of the University of California Berkeley, a student majoring in religious studies and minoring in Christianity. He, being an intellectual of the highest degree I've personally ever known, took utter compassion on me, took me under his wing, most importantly DEPROGRAMMED ME, and supported me throughout the process, like a personal spiritual trainer. He stuck by me, almost as if it were his mission in life to do so. He had the kind of dedication I see right here on this website and because of the profound experience and freedom I had with this revelation of consciousness, I hope to further that goal right here with all who are in need. In his honor; I think he would heartily approve.

 

Most importantly, he encouraged me to enter college so I could gain enough knowledge to reinforce my newfound de-programmed-ness. I only had two years of community college but it made more difference in my life than all the previous years combined. I was on the path to progress thanks to him, and it translated into being able to help my children as well. His legacy has had a profound impact that cannot be matched and it was in service to true compassion for me and for my kids. I never found such a thing in a Christian either before or after my Christian experience. Not bad for a heathen!

 

I see the need for religious connection as valid and worthy. I know what it feels like to have that aching need for bliss; we are all hard wired to need that as a human species. I know the pain of failing to find that bliss we all seek, whatever path our lives lead us in. And I know the feeling of unfairness that naturally follows from still not knowing, in the face of all our efforts, to remain unsatisfied that promise of bliss has not been met.

 

In the end, after 65 years of seeking, I may never know for sure what awaits me. My life has been a journey, and every scar to me has become a blessing in disguise. Every failure contains the seeds of success. I heard a woman recently who had been trying to sell her first book proclaim, “People are able to sell a good story every single day. Why not me?” She had tried selling her book and been rejected 43 times. But after that, she was on a major news network talking about her book.

If it only takes 43 times trying, imagine what a hundred might get you!

 

And in closing, my spiritual journey continues. I am not 'there' but every step brings me closer to that bliss, including both feeling it and thinking it. Every bit of my being is engaged in this seeking and I cannot and will not stop until my life is over. Why not? The fun is in the journey, not necessarily the destination.

 

I love you all.

The best is yet to come.

 

 

Yeah, there is still a "spiritual side" to your writings IMO. That's cool though. As for me, all the religions of the world are exactly the same as Greek Mythology, and I've known  this for almost countless decades now. I do not laugh outwardly at religion, but inwardly I think "how stupid is that belief," with an inward smile or chuckle. 

 

best wishes, and expect you'll enjoy our company here and come to love our forum.   Cheers

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

1 hour ago, pantheory said:

expect you'll enjoy our company here and come to love our forum.   Cheers

Too late. I already do. 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

1 hour ago, pantheory said:

Yeah, there is still a "spiritual side" to your writings IMO. That's cool though. As for me, all the religions of the world are exactly the same as Greek Mythology, and I've known  this for almost countless decades now. I do not laugh outwardly at region, but inwardly I think "how stupid is that belief," with an inward smile or chuckle. 

I would expect nothing less of you my friend. I smile with you. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Thanks for sharing that!  Sharing promotes understanding and Helps us to see a real peson behind the posts that are made. 

 

I certainly remember those boring military church services.  I think I made it to 3 or 4 before going off base to a church.  And remember being disappointed when God did not "transform" me after baptism. I expected my sinful sexual lust would magically disappear until the day I was happily married.  What a let down that left me feeling like a hopeless sinner and doomed to hell.

 

I am curious.  Can you tell us more about your husband and son?

 

And perhaps we can have more discussion about that need for bliss.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

6 minutes ago, Weezer said:

And perhaps we can have more discussion about that need for bliss.

OH, YES PLEASE!!! 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

6 minutes ago, Weezer said:

Thanks for sharing that!  Sharing promotes understanding and Helps us to see a real peson behind the posts that are made. 

 

I know. It was harder than I expected it to be. Reminds me of how hard it was to 'go forward' at the end of services to be saved in front of a church full of people. 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

8 minutes ago, Weezer said:

I am curious.  Can you tell us more about your husband and son?

 

What would you like to know? There's a lot. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

9 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

I know. It was harder than I expected it to be. Reminds me of how hard it was to 'go forward' at the end of services to be saved in front of a church full of people. 

OMG!  One of the hardest things I ever did!  I was 11 years old, but it was made easier because a good friend did "the walk" with me.  

[◊ Weezer ◊]

17 minutes ago, moxieflux66 said:

What would you like to know? There's a lot. 

I reread the story and noticed you had children.  Not just a son. In general, what happened with kids and husband after your deconversion?

Let me think some more about a discussion on bliss.  In a sense, it would only be slighty related to religion.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

7 minutes ago, Weezer said:

I reread the story and noticed you had children.  Not just a son. In general, what happened with kids and husband after your deconversion?

Since I was saved first, I went to a local church to get baptized. The night before the preacher dropped in at my house to chat. We weren't expecting him and my husband had just smoked a big fat joint so a thick cloud hung in the air. He was so busted by the preacher (who somehow managed to ignore it all), red faced he agreed to pray with us and lo and behold! He was saved!!! Hell of a miracle, eh? 

From then on he was rather caught up in it all quite reluctantly. He got baptized with me the next day but he was really only going through the motions because he got caught. He 'fell out' of christianity as fast as he could get away from it. It was never a problem I had de-converted and when we moved away the subject never came up again. 

We moved to northern California in 1979. My daughter was born in 1980 of the next year. By then all talk of religion had completely disappeared. My husband lost his truck driving job and began collecting unemployment. Eventually he decided he wanted to try his hand at being a big pot grower, moved to a remote cabin at a friend's property while the three of us stayed behind. 

He never became rich as a pot grower but it was the beginning of the end of our marriage. 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

For continued discussion of "bliss", go to Ex-christian life forum, "Do you hate yourself?"

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

Just now, Weezer said:

For continued discussion of "bliss", go to Ex-christian Spirituality forum, "Do you hate yourself?"

Okie Dokie!