Guest Emerson Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I've noticed that we make of "them," the xtians and they make fun of us at their forums. We have a lot of fun here at their expense and I know why this happens, a lot of us have pent up frustrations and bitterness to get out and I'm thankful for that, but does this make us any better, anymore enlightened? I don't think so. Sometimes we're just as silly as they are. on a more silly note.... Uh yah I guess I can't pledge to the "sorority" after this? lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 There is a difference. You see, our frustrations and bitternesses are real frustrations and bitternesses whereas "they" don't even know why they make fun of us because they're to stupid to realize that they're being duped. There! How'zat? Okay, I'm tired. But if you look real close, that does make some sense. Doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Sometimes we're just as silly as they are. Superficially, it can appear like that, yes. But just because the result is the same doesn't mean that the people who "generate" that result are the same. Consider: We at least know what we're talking about. Most of "you" over there in shrubbenführer's 4th reich have been christians, and usually fundies, for a time, so you definitely "know the enemy". How many fundies can rightfully claim the same for themselves? Just have a look at the standard "proof against evilution" brought forth by the fundies. How much of that has been refuted a gazillion times, sometimes a whole century ago? I see that as somewhat related to the claim "well, we christians might not be 100 % sure that we're right, but neither can you evilutionists be!". Of course, perhaps everything, literally everything is wrong. Perhaps solipsism is the only truth and we all just imagine the whole world around us. Of course the scientists/evolutionary biologists can be wrong too. But I'd like to ask the numbnuts out there: If you're faced with the decision on which side probably speaks the truth... if you have absolutely no idea about the scientific facts being discussed... but you at least see that one side does know the claims of the other, but that other side is totally and painfully clueless of what side #1 claims (as is always, yes, always the case with evolution deniers of any kind!)... who will you see as more trustworthy, again, even if you don't really understand the whole topic itself? You see, our frustrations and bitternesses are real frustrations and bitternesses whereas "they" don't even know why they make fun of us because they're to stupid to realize that they're being duped. Oh well, I can imagine easily that "they" are of the same opinion exactly inasmuch as "us ebil unbelievas" are concerned. But see my previous posting.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Sometimes, yes, we can be as bad as Xians. Some of our sort can be just as pigheaded and dogmatic as any Xian, and others can be just as rude and snobbish as a Xian who think he or she has a hotline to Gawd. But, like Fwee said, our frustrations are generally based in problems we've had with Xianity or problems we see in it - or in how Xians behave. Most Xians just use the hatreds condoned by their cult to vent their own angers and for the most part think we're all deliberately choosing evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Maybe making fun of the other group is a human trait. Which shows that we're human and so are they. We do have a lot of pent-up frustration. Spending many years believing something that was proven to be false. I feel duped and shamed. And also "they" are comming to me trying to tell me that I was never a Christian, I got it all wrong, I'm lying, I'm immoral, I'm evil, ... yeah... I kind of don't like it that much. I try to be the better person in a conversation, but when it starts to get to personal attacks of integrity... I get a lit bit upset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padreko Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I so asked thsi question when I first got here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 And have you started to rant in frustration of the "them" too now? And making fun of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ nivek ♦ Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Emerson: "Better"? Fuck no.. "More honest?" Maybeso. Know what I am, how I got here, and where I think I want to go to day. Don't give a rusty fuck through a rolling tuna can what many others think of me as long as I don't go about hurting them. Less serious about "looking correct and acting like a butt stuffed puritanical turkey dressed in best suit on way to be executed?" Yeaaahhhhh... "Pent up and bitter?" I dunno, about what? What do I have to be a bitch about? Most of my body is still attached and functions. Brain still kickstarts and and directs me to coffeepot every morning. Every_frackin_day challenges me to *do something*, and most daze I can still rise to meeting that goal. I simply do not need to kiss the sky_spookies_ass to be able to get up and get about to living. Praise dog! kL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 We are human and they are Human. But probobly the biggest and only real thing I hate about "Them" is that most of them wont admit the same thing. Most of the people here know more about xianity then xians themselves, but fundies dont know anything about what non belief entails and instead attempt to dehumanize anyone who doesnt agree with their ideals as "The enemy". On that note - yes, were probobly no better then them morally. But when it comes to reason and understanding its a differant story. PS- on that note, 99% of our rants are against fundies. Many of us here actually have non-fundie xian friends including me, and they are cool just like everyone else. Its when they start saying crap like "ALL ATHEISSSTARS ARE GOWEN TA HELL !!!" that we start to give them the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padreko Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 And have you started to rant in frustration of the "them" too now? And making fun of them? HELL YEAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I've noticed that we make of "them," the xtians and they make fun of us at their forums. We have a lot of fun here at their expense and I know why this happens, a lot of us have pent up frustrations and bitterness to get out and I'm thankful for that, but does this make us any better, anymore enlightened? I don't think so. Sometimes we're just as silly as they are. I suspect that "they" have a lot of pent up frustrations and bitterness to get out too. I doubt if anyone's "Frustrations and Bitterness" started at deconversion. Responsibility for F&B are almost always directed at "them". "If only "they" weren't like "that" the world would have no troubles, at least very few." By holding "them" responsible you give "them" power, because you are stuck with F&B until "they" become "not them". We have not removed ourselves very far from "them". We have given up a few assumptions, but we still hold many assumptions in common with "them" like "if only "they" weren't like "that" the world would have no troubles, at least very few." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 And have you started to rant in frustration of the "them" too now? And making fun of them? HELL YEAH! I thought so! And over time you get more skilled in putting their ass on the skillet. I suspect that "they" have a lot of pent up frustrations and bitterness to get out too. I doubt if anyone's "Frustrations and Bitterness" started at deconversion. Very good point. Maybe that is the common thread in most deconversions, the frustration of something that's not right, may it be logic, rationality or experience, but the frustration over the things that are supposed to be true seems to fail. So you might be right, maybe the frustration started way before the deconversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 I've noticed that we make of "them," the xtians and they make fun of us at their forums. Yah, they are pretty silly. Uh yah I guess I can't pledge to the "sorority" after this? lol. ...and to think, you only had one more "test" to undergo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 The difference between me and them is that they accept things at face value just because they have been told to. I on the other hand spent literally years studying, introspecting, and facing the tough questions, all because I needed to be sure that hell was not in fact a real place. The difference between me and them is that they claim to know the truth and then offer laughable reasons for why their brand of the truth is in fact the Truth. I on the other hand make no such claims to truth. I will shout from the mountain tops that what they believe is not the truth, but I am not so foolish to stand up and say I know what Truth is. I don't hate them, in fact I like and even love a lot of them. They have a lot of nice people on their side, including most members of my own family. I just don't respect their naivety and self righteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnosis of Disbelief Posted May 3, 2006 Share Posted May 3, 2006 What Vigile said.....minus the "love them" part. I'd say I'm indifferent to them until they start trying to shove their religion down my throat; THEN I get pretty pissed off. Once is more than enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Emerson, My response would be to say no, we (assuming you mean ex-Christians) are not better than them (Christians). More enlightened? From my POV, yes. We walked through that religious veil of fear that says you can't leave and still live and are now on the other side of it and doing fine. To a fundie like I was, leaving the faith was tantamount to death. It seems that a lot of ex-Christians have faced that fear, and in search of truth pressed on beyond religious fear to face themselves, their families, their churches, and the world...and now we know that there is 'life' after 'death'. But it is short, and it is precious. And we should help those who need us because their lives are short and precious too. How does that last line stack up against a God that would drown His own Creation? Yes, I believe that I'm more enlightened. I'm open now to whatever I may find tomorrow. I find that not knowing the answers to everything and exploring is healthy as opposed to knowing all the answers to everything, and feeling guilty for it. Maybe I'm being too serious? Mushroom man... how can anyone read the Bible and say they are a Christian, and not be a fundy? They aren't "cool". They aren't even real Christians! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 how can anyone read the Bible and say they are a Christian, and not be a fundy? By not actually reading the bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mostlyharmless Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Responsibility for F&B are almost always directed at "them". "If only "they" weren't like "that" the world would have no troubles, at least very few." By holding "them" responsible you give "them" power, because you are stuck with F&B until "they" become "not them". We have not removed ourselves very far from "them". We have given up a few assumptions, but we still hold many assumptions in common with "them" like "if only "they" weren't like "that" the world would have no troubles, at least very few." Very true. Also, Christians don't all sit around talking about athiests and non-xtians all day, they talk about how such and such a bible passage relates to modern day life, how to relate to each other as Christians, and stuff like that. Whereas, I would say at least 80% of what we communicate revolves around what xtians and fundies do. I would like to see more community in atheist / non-xtian society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyFeline Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Aaaand it's extremely unpopular viewpoint time! Judging by some of the attitudes I see around here from time to time, I highly doubt that we're any more "enlightened" than the Christians. It's hard to consider someone enlightened when the most you see from them is a lot of hateful, bitter name-calling, contempt, and... generally... the exact same attitudes the fundies give us. It certainly doesn't help to see some people take things from "Ex-Christian" to "Rabidly Anti-anything even REMOTELY religious to the point of hatefully bashing anyone who has any spiritual beliefs whatsoever" Note: I'm not claiming that all or even most folks around here engage in such disgraceful and stereotypically Fundie behaviour... But it's enough to seriously taint my perception of this ex-Christian community. How are we supposed to claim to be better than them, when so many of us act just like them? If not worse? It's like some people swapped one spiteful soapbox for another, and the only difference between the things they're saying now, and the things they said before, is a distinct lack of invocations of God and Jesus. Unless, of course, they're raving about how we need to ban any mention of any deity in any aspect of daily life. Because, of course, it's okay to force your viewpoint on someone else if you're doing it for their betterment! Oh, wait, where have I heard that before....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Lady F, Ex-Christians aren't perfect, they're just forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 how can anyone read the Bible and say they are a Christian, and not be a fundy? By not actually reading the bible. Exactly. At least if I'm allowed to refer to just my fellow Germans. Hardly anyone has ever even thought about reading it all. It's simply too unimportant to most of "us". If there hadn't come the time for me, in late 2000, when I had almost no work to do anymore and my contract was still running for several months, chances are I wouldn't ever have read the whole thing either. But if you desperately need something to kill your time at work, and you work for a christian association, reading the wholly babble is definitely better than doing nothing, and your boss will have a hard time keeping you from doing it as long as work doesn't suffer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 I don't think anyone is better than anyone. I look at it as...Jesus might work for you, but he is a detriment to me. However, I will say that I thought I was better than everyone else when I was a christian. I think we all did to some degree or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 4, 2006 Share Posted May 4, 2006 Judging by some of the attitudes I see around here from time to time, I highly doubt that we're any more "enlightened" than the Christians. It's hard to consider someone enlightened when the most you see from them is a lot of hateful, bitter name-calling, contempt, and... generally... the exact same attitudes the fundies give us. Agree. The only difference is that we don't call each other Not True Apostates because we disagree. I do think we have attitudes and issues too. It's human. And the healing starts with knowing this and admitting that we're not anything more or less than anyone else. Knowing is the first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted May 5, 2006 Share Posted May 5, 2006 I love your response Ladyfeline! I mainly come here to goof off and vent. I'm very silly, whereas in real life I'm more serious. Go figure! But anyway, you're right we're not any better but at least we're not excusing ourselves with sin and biblical themes. LMR is right that most people do think they're better than everyone. In one way or another. Even though we really aren't. But I love that I can come to this forum and make fun of fundies, vent, get on my little soapbox and get off and just be crazy. This is like a safe haven to me in so many ways, I don't feel judged and if I do I'm usually not aware of it. No one preaches to me, people advice me and tell me their stories and experiences and that's what I love. No one's out to convert me to the "right" pov. Its more of a "sharing" type of thing. Xtian forums are ugly, you have to agree or you're a "traitor" and everyone is just way too judgemental. yeah we're not better than "them" and we acknowledge that. Its okay, no one's perfect, we're just human and we're here to goof off and have fun as I see it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts