Another messed up Story

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Here's another messed up story for everyone especially Christians to think about. We all know that the Bible has loads of them. Abraham told to kill Isaac just for God to say, "whoa whoa whoa, I just wanted to see if you would actually do it." The law in deuteronomy that allows a woman's rapist to buy her as a wife for 50 shekels of silver. The stories about God laughing as his enemies babies were dashed against stones and their pregnant women ripped open. Such a lovely twisted God you Christians serve. why not add another to the growing list that we've discussed lately. 

 

This one is similar to the instance with Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. It is in judges however and it is so eerily similar that I think this was written by the same person and that person was a sexual sadist. All of us here know and understand that the Bible was influenced, changed, and reinterpreted many times throughout the 1000s of years it has been I'm the making. From the clay tablets of the Ugarit, to the dead see scrolls, to being copied over and over on parchment, until we finally invented the printing press and then of course digital copies. If one thing is certain. The Bible evolved as it's believers evolved. I know Christians don't really see it that way. Or...... most Christians don't see it that way. Anyway. Here is the story. In KJV of course. If you want to read it in another version I'm sure you can figure out how to make that happen.

 

JUDGES 19

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

 

This is how lowly the isrealite men thought of women. They were nothing to them. NOTHING!!!! In two stories this thing happens. Lot offers his daughters to a mob of men to appease their lusts instead of the lords angels getting raped. Explain to me how that would happen anyway?

 

And now here in this story. To keep a male guest of his house safe from being raped he offers up not only his guests concubine but also his own virgin daughter. 

 

To which they actually refuse. I don't even think that's realistic lmao. Because they had no problem raping just the concubine repeated to death for the remainder of the night. Apparently they weren't strictly dickly. 

 

And when this man sees her laying at the door. What does he do? Are you OK honey? Picks her up and holds her in his arms? Thanks her for her sacrifice? Nah. He yells at her and just says, "Get up!! We need to go!!"

 

Then, and I'm assuming she was dead. It doesn't actually say it. But instead of giving her a decent burial. He divides her up into 12 pieces and send her body parts all over the country. 

 

What the Literal FUCK¿ so y'all just ponder on that. Thoughts anyone?

 

Dark Bishop

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

So my thoughts on this besides the obvious, are that I don't understand why women want to worship this God. All throughout the Bible women are on a grossly lower scale than men. It is this type of mentality that keeps Muslim women today in extreme persecution, That kept women from having the right to vote for YEARS in this country, That kept them house wives, that kept them from wearing pants, and who knows how many through the teaching of this abrahamic religion have been killed or stoned for whatever reason the parents or husband could justify?

 

The bible is against women almost as bad as it is against homosexuals. It is a book filled with bigotry, persecution, and fear mongering. It isn't a book about God's love? That's only found in John. The rest of the Bible is more so about obedience and subjection. And if you're a woman. That extends to the new testament as well! So all you ladies keep silence in the church and be in subjection to your husband's or your Holy Cloud daddy is gonna be mad. Just be a good girl like the bible says. 

 

I mean really? Why the hell do women in the church not see this? I mean I know the answer. The same as when I was in the church and didn't see everything I see today. 

 

Cognitive dissonance and ignorance. 

 

DB

[walterpthefirst]

All of us here know and understand that the Bible was influenced, changed, and reinterpreted many times throughout the 1000s of years it has been I'm the making. From the clay tablets of the Ugarit, to the dead see scrolls, to being copied over and over on parchment, until we finally invented the printing press and then of course digital copies. If one thing is certain. The Bible evolved as it's believers evolved. 

 

 

Ah yes, but when it comes to the value god places upon women, THAT has not evolved, DB.

 

(How can an unchanging god evolve, anyway?)

 

Revelation 14 : 1 - 5.

 

1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 

2 And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 

3 And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 

 

4 These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins. 

 

They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 

5 No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.

 

 

See that?

 

By the power of the Holy Spirit moving through him on the island of Patmos the apostle John wrote the truth about god.

 

Women defile men if they sleep with them. 

 

THAT is god's true view of women.  

 

 

 

 

Walter.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

15 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

By the power of the Holy Spirit moving through him on the island of Patmos the apostle John wrote the truth about god.

 

Women defile men if they sleep with them. 

 

THAT is god's true view of women.  

That's what I'm saying. From front to back the bible portrays women as evil, worthless, objects to ve sold, or thrown to an angry mob of rapists. 

 

It's a disgusting and troublesome teaching IMO to be giving our youth in this day and time. Its teachings like these that cause severe religious trauma. 

 

DB

[walterpthefirst]

19 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

That's what I'm saying. From front to back the bible portrays women as evil, worthless, objects to ve sold, or thrown to an angry mob of rapists. 

 

It's a disgusting and troublesome teaching IMO to be giving our youth in this day and time. Its teachings like these that cause severe religious trauma. 

 

DB

 

 

Then why do women throw themselves at the feet of this woman-hating monster, DB?

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

25 minutes ago, walterpthefirst said:

 

 

Then why do women throw themselves at the feet of this woman-hating monster, DB?

 

That is the question isn't it?

 

Since we don't have a resident female Christian active in the forum. Maybe some of our female ExChristians could share why they worshipped this woman-hating monster prior to their deconversion. 

 

Did they give any thought to scriptures like these?

 

Or did their churches avoid such controversial scripture?

 

I know @moxieflux66 probably wouldn't mind telling us. 

 

DB

[pantheory]

On 12/7/2023 at 7:40 AM, DarkBishop said:

Here's another messed up story for everyone especially Christians to think about. We all know that the Bible has loads of them. Abraham told to kill Isaac just for God to say, "whoa whoa whoa, I just wanted to see if you would actually do it." The law in deuteronomy that allows a woman's rapist to buy her as a wife for 50 shekels of silver. The stories about God laughing as his enemies babies were dashed against stones and their pregnant women ripped open. Such a lovely twisted God you Christians serve. why not add another to the growing list that we've discussed lately. 

 

This one is similar to the instance with Lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. It is in judges however and it is so eerily similar that I think this was written by the same person and that person was a sexual sadist. All of us here know and understand that the Bible was influenced, changed, and reinterpreted many times throughout the 1000s of years it has been I'm the making. From the clay tablets of the Ugarit, to the dead see scrolls, to being copied over and over on parchment, until we finally invented the printing press and then of course digital copies. If one thing is certain. The Bible evolved as it's believers evolved. I know Christians don't really see it that way. Or...... most Christians don't see it that way. Anyway. Here is the story. In KJV of course. If you want to read it in another version I'm sure you can figure out how to make that happen.

 

JUDGES 19

22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

23 And the man, the master of the house, went out unto them, and said unto them, Nay, my brethren, nay, I pray you, do not so wickedly; seeing that this man is come into mine house, do not this folly.

24 Behold, here is my daughter a maiden, and his concubine; them I will bring out now, and humble ye them, and do with them what seemeth good unto you: but unto this man do not so vile a thing.

25 But the men would not hearken to him: so the man took his concubine, and brought her forth unto them; and they knew her, and abused her all the night until the morning: and when the day began to spring, they let her go.

26 Then came the woman in the dawning of the day, and fell down at the door of the man's house where her lord was, till it was light.

27 And her lord rose up in the morning, and opened the doors of the house, and went out to go his way: and, behold, the woman his concubine was fallen down at the door of the house, and her hands were upon the threshold.

28 And he said unto her, Up, and let us be going. But none answered. Then the man took her up upon an ass, and the man rose up, and gat him unto his place.

29 And when he was come into his house, he took a knife, and laid hold on his concubine, and divided her, together with her bones, into twelve pieces, and sent her into all the coasts of Israel.

30 And it was so, that all that saw it said, There was no such deed done nor seen from the day that the children of Israel came up out of the land of Egypt unto this day: consider of it, take advice, and speak your minds.

 

This is how lowly the isrealite men thought of women. They were nothing to them. NOTHING!!!! In two stories this thing happens. Lot offers his daughters to a mob of men to appease their lusts instead of the lords angels getting raped. Explain to me how that would happen anyway?

 

And now here in this story. To keep a male guest of his house safe from being raped he offers up not only his guests concubine but also his own virgin daughter. 

 

To which they actually refuse. I don't even think that's realistic lmao. Because they had no problem raping just the concubine repeated to death for the remainder of the night. Apparently they weren't strictly dickly. 

 

And when this man sees her laying at the door. What does he do? Are you OK honey? Picks her up and holds her in his arms? Thanks her for her sacrifice? Nah. He yells at her and just says, "Get up!! We need to go!!"

 

Then, and I'm assuming she was dead. It doesn't actually say it. But instead of giving her a decent burial. He divides her up into 12 pieces and send her body parts all over the country. 

 

What the Literal FUCK¿ so y'all just ponder on that. Thoughts anyone?

 

Dark Bishop

 

DB,

 

Know you are looking for a Christian's response to these "stupid" stories in the Bible. But I think you known what I think of these stories : simply BS stories that somebody made up roughly about 2400 years ago. It reflects the thinking of the Jews in those days. The law acknowledged men as the head of the household, income provider, and tax payer. Their wives, children and concubines were simply a man's property without any legal rights of their own. Even the few Christians that come here would have problems with this crazy story.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

6 hours ago, pantheory said:

Know you are looking for a Christian's response to these "stupid" stories in the Bible

I don't necessarily have to have Christian responses. But they would be appreciated. And I understand your view point. It is much like mine as well. But the main reason I post topics highlighting these types of stories is that this type of behaviour is unacceptable in our current time. Most women if treated this way by her SO especially in 1st world countries would not stay with this person. 

 

Most women would not accept that man throwing his wife to an angry mob of rapists is acceptable. One of the problems I see with Christians staying Christian is that most don't really study their Bible. They go to church, go to Sunday school, listen to the sermon. And base their lives around what is taught and brought to the forefront. 

 

These stories are avoided. They aren't talked about usually. I have never heard a sermon where this particular scripture was sighted. And I think it is this tactic that sometimes keeps Christians ignorant of just how outdated the bible and its teachings truly are. It is so out of touch with our current world. We are light-years beyond this. But since most Christians never hear these stories they remain ignorant, happy to believe in whatever the preacher says. 

 

It's these stories that make a Christian uncomfortable and if a Christian is uncomfortable they have to think about what is being said. 

 

If I could go back now and preach a sermon. I would do it on something like this just to see how swiftly the congregation shut me down. 

 

DB

[◊ Weezer ◊]

29 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 

If I could go back now and preach a sermon. I would do it on something like this just to see how swiftly the congregation shut me down. 

 

As I look back I can see why our church hardly ever mentioned anything about the old testament, except for the creation and flood stories.

[mwc]

     It doesn't directly address the questions raised here but this article is a good read on this particular story.

 

          mwc

 

[walterpthefirst]

11 hours ago, Weezer said:

As I look back I can see why our church hardly ever mentioned anything about the old testament, except for the creation and flood stories.

 

And that is one of the ways Christianity is able to perpetuate itself, down through the generations, Weezer.

 

The sheeple don't THINK.

 

They just sit there letting these magical, fantastical stories just wash right over them and accepting them as true, by faith.

 

Proverbs 3 : 5 & 6

 

“Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make straight your paths.” 

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

4 hours ago, mwc said:

     It doesn't directly address the questions raised here but this article is a good read on this particular story.

 

          mwc

 

You're right that was a good read on the scripture. In it she brings out even more atrocities committed against women when they kill everyone except the virgin women in the city to give to the tribe of Benjamin. I'm sure those virgin women were so happy to be thrust into the arms and beds of strange men.

 

Thankfully this probably never happened but I have a feeling things like this probably did. I would say that in battle these ruthless abrahamic tribes probably did rape women, kill children, and take virgins for wives. While believing their God reveled with them in their barbarities. 

 

I love how the author says that this scripture should be read as literature and then ties it in with what she seems to represent as historical. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe she means everything in the narrative should be read as literature. In that I would agree. Yet if someone wrote literature of this nature today, no one would include it in a book of "Holy" scripture. This whole narrative screams ancient patriarchal beliefs where women are nothing but property. Only good for procreation and pleasing her husband.

 

And certainly many Christians today believe it as historical fact. 

 

I assume these beliefs developed because of the "sin" that Eve convinced Adam to commit against God in the Garden. Generations of men blaming all women for their plight in the world, toiling by the sweat of their brows, and suffering death. All because of conniving women and the devil. 

 

DB

[walterpthefirst]

Eve was  NOT  a conniving woman who was deceived by the devil.  

 

No, she became a sinner because god  CAUSED  her to disobey his command about not eating the forbidden fruit.  (Genesis 2 : 16 & 17)

 

God did this by violating her free will  BEFORE  he formed Adam from the dust of the earth and Eve from Adam's rib.

 

 

Romans 11 : 32

 

For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.  (New International Version)

For God has consigned all people to disobedience so that he may show mercy to them all.  (New English Translation)

For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.  (New Living Translation)

For God hath shut up all unto disobedience, that he might have mercy upon all.  (American Standard Version)

God has locked up all people in disobedience, in order to have mercy on all of them.  (Common English Bible)

For God has made all people prisoners of disobedience, so that he might show mercy to them all.  (Good News Translation)

For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. (King James Version)

God has all men penned together in the prison of disobedience, that he may have mercy upon them all. (J.B.Phillips New Testament)

God has placed all people into the prison of their own disobedience so that he could be merciful to all people.  (God's Word Translation)

For God has given them all up to sin [b] so that he could have mercy upon all alike. (The Living Bible)

 

[b]

Romans 11:32 has given them all up to sin, literally, “shut up all unto disobedience.”

 

 

Q.  Where's Eve's free will to freely choose to disobey God's command about not eating from the forbidden tree?

 

A.  It never existed.  God caused her to disobey him.

 

 

Pick any Bible translation you like or even go to the original Greek...  Scripture4All Interlinear: Romans 11 ...and they all say the same thing.

 

According to scripture, every human being, from the very first man and woman, has been caused by god to be disobedient.

 

So there no blame, fault, error or sin that can be laid at Eve's door or Adam's door.

 

She was not a conniving woman.

 

Like Adam she was an innocent patsy, used as a pawn in god's great game of self-glorification.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

3 hours ago, walterpthefirst said:

Eve was  NOT  a conniving woman who was deceived by the devil.  

 

No, she became a sinner because god  CAUSED  her to disobey his command about not eating the forbidden fruit.  (Genesis 2 : 16 & 17)

 

God did this by violating her free will  BEFORE  he formed Adam from the dust of the earth and Eve from Adam's rib.

I know that Walter. We can see the story from a different angle. But to these ancient men who subjected women to these cruelties. They did believe Eve was Decieved by the devil and then herself caused Adam to sin. It's even reflected in Genesis that this is what they thought. What did Adam say?

 

Genesis 3

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

 

And she also has the worse of the punishment between the two humans. Man has to work and toil the ground to eat. But the woman must be in subjection to the man and she is cursed with pain during childbirth and a painful period every month. 

 

DB

 

The theme throughout the Bible is that women are inherently weak to the wiles of the devil and therefore not to be trusted. 

[walterpthefirst]

I don't dispute anything that you say, DB.

 

You know that.

 

 

But there Christian men of today who truly believe that their wives and daughters are morally and spiritually inferior to them.  In the same way there are Christian women who truly believe that they are morally and spiritually weaker than their menfolk.  We both know, from the bible itself, that neither of these things are true.  That these are lies caused and perpetrated by the bible.

 

We both know, again, from the bible itself, that it is god who is the liar here.  That all women, from Eve onwards, are truly blameless but have been unfairly branded as the root and cause of human misery.  We Ex-Christians often say that NOT looking to the bible will set Christians free from it's lies.  But paradoxically, the key to really understanding the greatest lie of all is right there in the pages of Paul's Epistle to the Romans.

 

And all the Christians have to do to set themselves free is to read 11 : 32 to see how god is the true originator, root and cause of all sin. 

 

 

 

Thank you,

 

Walter.

 

 

 

[mwc]

13 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

You're right that was a good read on the scripture. In it she brings out even more atrocities committed against women when they kill everyone except the virgin women in the city to give to the tribe of Benjamin. I'm sure those virgin women were so happy to be thrust into the arms and beds of strange men.

     Who wouldn't be happy for this?

 

     Although I think she skipped over a point in the story when she mentions this.  At first the virgin and concubine are offered but only the concubine is handed over.  The concubine is of a lessor value to these depraved people and is used and abused to death.  Now, essentially, the virgin is withheld.  In the end, however, the virgin, in the form of many virgins, are ultimately handed over.  It's a strange scene.

 

13 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

Thankfully this probably never happened but I have a feeling things like this probably did. I would say that in battle these ruthless abrahamic tribes probably did rape women, kill children, and take virgins for wives. While believing their God reveled with them in their barbarities. 

     I imagine they did.  However, I'm not entirely convinced that they were really any different than others of that time and place.

 

     I found a paper on JStor ("Ripping Open Pregnant Women" in Light of an Assyrian Analogue) that has the following:

 

 He pushes ahead a distance of three days
I ]
2 Even before the sun rose, its earth was
aglow (?)9
3 He slits the wombs of pregnant women; he
blinds the infants
4 He cuts the throats of their strong ones.

Following this fierce action, the poet concluded by remind-
ing his listeners:

Whoever offends the god Ashur will be
turned into a ruin.
Let me sing of the might of Ashur, the
strength, who goes forth to ... []

 

     So did Tiglath-pileser I really do this as described?  He seemed to have waged a lot of wars.  But in the inscriptions on an Octagon even though though lots of battles and brutality are mentioned they are largely geared towards other armies and soldiers.  It seems like the poems play up this sort of language but the more pragmatic accounts do not.  Which makes some sense because they would be made for different audiences.  In a sense we're talking a play or movie versus an accounting office quarterly report power point.

 

13 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

I love how the author says that this scripture should be read as literature and then ties it in with what she seems to represent as historical. Maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe she means everything in the narrative should be read as literature. In that I would agree. Yet if someone wrote literature of this nature today, no one would include it in a book of "Holy" scripture. This whole narrative screams ancient patriarchal beliefs where women are nothing but property. Only good for procreation and pleasing her husband.

     The later chapters appear to be tacked onto the book.  These appear to be an attack against Saul (and/or his government or remnants of his government or supporters).  So the author seems to have taken bits and pieces of things that were "known" about Saul (whether these things are real and true or only believed to be real and true make no difference) and builds their story on them.

 

     This is sort of the same as any metaphorical type story.  Say, The Crucible being set in the Salem Witch Trials as an allegory for McCarthyism.  If you recognize all the pieces you understand how they all relate and how the one is really talking about the other but, if you do not, then all you see is a story of a witch trial.

 

     In this case if you were familiar with Saul, his life and his rule (more so than we are now), then the "hidden" meaning comes through (which that article was nice in revealing) otherwise it's still a terrible story about an man, his concubine and this rotten city.  It's this latter version we all read today since the "secret code" pertaining to Saul has been effectively lost to time.

 

13 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

And certainly many Christians today believe it as historical fact. 

     Exactly.  There's no real reason not to do so.  The original message was never for them to begin with.  It was meant to secretly attack a government from nearly 3000 years ago.  Even if the original message was available it still wasn't meant for any of us.  Not to mention the "problem" of Saul has long since been resolved.  So all people can do is take-away the cover message.

 

13 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

I assume these beliefs developed because of the "sin" that Eve convinced Adam to commit against God in the Garden. Generations of men blaming all women for their plight in the world, toiling by the sweat of their brows, and suffering death. All because of conniving women and the devil. 

     All I can do is use the most likely dates people have set for authorship and redaction so at the time this was written, the devil may not have even existed yet or, if he did, was still an angel in YHWH's court since his move to being a more independent evil force comes around the intertestamental period.  Since the story of Genesis likely came from the Babylonian Captivity which happened after the story of the old man was written, it's unlikely people at this time were aware of the Genesis tale in the way they would later become and we are now so blaming women and the devil in this fashion would be anachronous.

 

          mwc

 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 12/7/2023 at 10:29 AM, DarkBishop said:

That is the question isn't it?

 

Since we don't have a resident female Christian active in the forum. Maybe some of our female ExChristians could share why they worshipped this woman-hating monster prior to their deconversion. 

 

Did they give any thought to scriptures like these?

 

Or did their churches avoid such controversial scripture?

 

I know @moxieflux66 probably wouldn't mind telling us. 

 

DB

Quite simply, my friend, I had no choice. Being born and raised in the 'faith' wasn't optional in the late 50's and 60's as a kid. And until very, very recently, I was utterly unaware of any other way to be as a female. Subservient, graceful and basically an appendage for 'the man' (whoever of the 3 husbands I had). Or maybe a satellite, meant to reflect my husband's glory. 

 

Probably the only thing that began to save me from the xtian ordeal was to have a husband who wasn't a believer to begin with (he was just really, really cute!). 

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 12/11/2023 at 2:32 AM, mwc said:

He pushes ahead a distance of three days
I ]
2 Even before the sun rose, its earth was
aglow (?)9
3 He slits the wombs of pregnant women; he
blinds the infants
4 He cuts the throats of their strong ones.

Following this fierce action, the poet concluded by remind-
ing his listeners:

Whoever offends the god Ashur will be
turned into a ruin.
Let me sing of the might of Ashur, the
strength, who goes forth to ... []

Charming story. Maybe a good bedtime story for children....

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 12/11/2023 at 2:32 AM, mwc said:

 In this case if you were familiar with Saul, his life and his rule (more so than we are now), then the "hidden" meaning comes through (which that article was nice in revealing) otherwise it's still a terrible story about an man, his concubine and this rotten city.  It's this latter version we all read today since the "secret code" pertaining to Saul has been effectively lost to time.

 

Huh??? Guess I'm not familiar enough with Saul. 

[mwc]

16 hours ago, moxieflux66 said:

Charming story. Maybe a good bedtime story for children....

     Yeah, right?   That's what the equivalent bible stories have become.

 

     I can't say I'm familiar enough to say who the originally intended audience for all this was but I imagine it wasn't bed time stories.  If I had to compare it to something I might compare it to a literate preacher in the middle-ages handing out these sorts of stories to the illiterate masses in the pews.  In these cases the stories are designed as propaganda pieces to show how ruthless and powerful this guy and god are and you'd be wise to fall-in with them rather than oppose them.

 

16 hours ago, moxieflux66 said:

Huh??? Guess I'm not familiar enough with Saul. 

     Take a peek at that article I linked to.  It's a quick and easy read that will get you up to speed.  Regardless, hit pieces against leaders people didn't like aren't anything new.  We just have the freedom to call them out by name nowadays (although not everywhere).

 

          mwc