Snakes & Fraudsters

[Sage]

I'm not sure what category this question best fits under so I understand if the moderators move it to where they see fit. Let's just say that I know someone who probably doesn't believe in Christianity but they're still trying to take over the church they attend. Should I contact another member of that church to voice my concerns? I'm not sure that it's a good idea because it will most likely come back to bite me. At the very least, my words are probably going to fall on deaf ears. But then again if this person isn't stopped then there's no telling what kind of damage they are going to do. Maybe I just need to let it go and not get involved.

[◊ Krowb ◊]

1 hour ago, Sage said:

probably doesn't believe in Christianity

 

That does not sound like strong evidence to go stirring the pot, especially amongst a group with which you do not appear to be affiliated.  I would say to let it go, unless you have knowledge of an intent to harm people or the organization.

[Sage]

1 hour ago, Krowb said:

 

That does not sound like strong evidence to go stirring the pot, especially amongst a group with which you do not appear to be affiliated.  I would say to let it go, unless you have knowledge of an intent to harm people or the organization.

I tend to agree with you. The one thing that concerns me is they have a violent past. And although I've never seen them commit violence, I have witnessed them acting in a threatening manner numerous times.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Without knowing more about what the situation is, and how you are related to it, it is hard to know what to recommend.  But it sounds like he is a "control" freak and has no business "leading" anyone.

 

Is it a small group?   In a fairly isolated area?  How long, and how well does the congregation know him?  Etc.

[TABA]

Your post prompts more questions than answers.  In what sense are they trying take over the church?  By getting themselves appointed/elected to a leadership position?  And what do your think they would do - as a probable non-believer - if successful?  Destroy it from inside, in some sense?   
 

Are the members or leadership aware of this person and their background?  

 

2 hours ago, Krowb said:

I would say to let it go, unless you have knowledge of an intent to harm people or the organization.

I’m inclined to agree with Krowb.  Unless they have violent or other criminal intent, why would you care, especially assuming you’re a heathen yourself?  

[Sage]

6 hours ago, Weezer said:

Without knowing more about what the situation is, and how you are related to it, it is hard to know what to recommend.  But it sounds like he is a "control" freak and has no business "leading" anyone.

 

Is it a small group?   In a fairly isolated area?  How long, and how well does the congregation know him?  Etc.

Yes, it's a small group in a rural area. They've only known them for about two to three years.

[Sage]

6 hours ago, TABA said:

Your post prompts more questions than answers.  In what sense are they trying take over the church?  By getting themselves appointed/elected to a leadership position?  And what do your think they would do - as a probable non-believer - if successful?  Destroy it from inside, in some sense?   
 

Are the members or leadership aware of this person and their background?  

 

I’m inclined to agree with Krowb.  Unless they have violent or other criminal intent, why would you care, especially assuming you’re a heathen yourself?  

They just barged in and started telling everyone how to run things. On top of that, they also teach Sunday school class. I honestly have no idea what they would do. The people there aren't aware of their background. It wouldn't surprise me if a number of the members are afraid of this person. At least one reason why I care is because I have to deal with this person on a regular basis. I don't consider myself a heathen.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

You still are not telling us much.  Do you attend church at this congregation?  Are you related to the people there?  Are they a bunch of old peope, or young people who would be vulnerable to an aggressive guy?  Would he take financial advantage of them if they are not well educated?  Is it an independent church?  Or belong to a particular denomination?

 

 How could you saying anything to people in the congergation, affect your relationship with this guy?  Or how could it affect anyone in the congergation?  In what capacity do you have to deal with him? 

[TABA]

14 hours ago, Sage said:

I don't consider myself a heathen

That’s just a slightly tongue-in-cheek term I use to refer to us Ex-Christians.   Are you an Ex-Christian?

[Sage]

12 hours ago, Weezer said:

You still are not telling us much.  Do you attend church at this congregation?  Are you related to the people there?  Are they a bunch of old peope, or young people who would be vulnerable to an aggressive guy?  Would he take financial advantage of them if they are not well educated?  Is it an independent church?  Or belong to a particular denomination?

 

 How could you saying anything to people in the congergation, affect your relationship with this guy?  Or how could it affect anyone in the congergation?  In what capacity do you have to deal with him? 

No, I do not attend that particular church. I'm related to this individual and one other person that goes there. It's a mix of young and old in attendance. I'm not sure if they would take any financial advantage but I'm going to say they wouldn't for now although that could change. I'm also not sure if they are independent. They belong to the "Church of Christ" sect. Me saying something would most likely destroy our relationship. It most likely will further divide that congregation. I haven't had to deal with them yet. I'm trying to be very careful because I don't know just how sensitive of an issue this is yet and I'm therefore doing my best to be cautious with what I say here and elsewhere.

[Sage]

4 hours ago, TABA said:

That’s just a slightly tongue-in-cheek term I use to refer to us Ex-Christians.   Are you an Ex-Christian?

Understood. I guess you could say I am an Ex-Christian or I've at least taken a step back from it.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

It sounds like about the only option you really have, at this point, is to weigh your regrets and choose the ones you can more easily live with.  You're going to have regrets if you say something; but you're also going to have regrets if you don't.  Accept that.  Accept the fact that however this plays out, you're going to regret something.  Life throws us these curveballs sometimes; and there's not much we can do but keep swinging.  If the regret of keeping quiet outweighs the regret of saying something, then say something.  If not... you get the point.

[TABA]

1 hour ago, Sage said:

I'm also not sure if they are independent. They belong to the "Church of Christ" sect.

I used to be CofC.  Individual congregations are independent: no oversight from a synod of other governing body.  The congregation is run by two or more Elders.  Even the minister(s) answer to the elders.  You mentioned that this individual is trying to “take over” the congregation.  That would pretty much require getting himself (only men can be elders) appointed as an elder.  Even then he would need other like-minded elders to get his way.  
 

You mentioned this person probably doesn’t even believe in Christianity.  He’d have to be a very good actor to get made an elder.  
 

Of course there are various ways people can cause problems in organizations, churches or otherwise.  But you don’t get to take over a CofC congregation without being an elder, period.  

[pantheory]

I tend to agree with those that think that you should do nothing at all. Unless you are a dedicated memeber of this church you can always go to another church IMO if the scales tip the wrong way.

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Also, instead of saying anything about this guy, you could just ask your relative how it is going with this guy and his family.  See what kind of response you get, and then decide what you want to say from there. 
 

if they ask why you asked, you could say, “I was just curious”, or something similar. 
 

Does the congregation have a preacher you trust, and could talk to if more concerns arise?  Or are they so small that they have a visiting preacher?  And no elders?
 

I grew up in a long line of Church of Christers in the Bible Belt.  They are famous for having “divided”  and split congregations.  So I would not worry too much about that.  That’s what happens with rigid, “know it all” people. 
 

Another question crossed my mind.  Why would a guy who you are not sure is a real Christian, be going to church and teaching bible classes?

[Sage]

12 hours ago, Weezer said:

Also, instead of saying anything about this guy, you could just ask your relative how it is going with this guy and his family.  See what kind of response you get, and then decide what you want to say from there. 
 

if they ask why you asked, you could say, “I was just curious”, or something similar. 
 

Does the congregation have a preacher you trust, and could talk to if more concerns arise?  Or are they so small that they have a visiting preacher?  And no elders?
 

I grew up in a long line of Church of Christers in the Bible Belt.  They are famous for having “divided”  and split congregations.  So I would not worry too much about that.  That’s what happens with rigid, “know it all” people. 
 

Another question crossed my mind.  Why would a guy who you are not sure is a real Christian, be going to church and teaching bible classes?

I would say there's no one there I would trust. I'm unsure of what their preacher situation is because I do know that they have guest speakers from time to time. The primary reason why this man goes to church is due to his fear of going to hell. I believe his fear is sincere but at the same time, it tells me that he and many others don't truly believe in most of what they say they do. I.e., they're just pretending to go along to hopefully get a reward in the end. The other relative is his wife who has always had a big influence on his religious life. He's always been easily manipulated by her and other women in the church. Narcissism, pride, and ego also plays a huge role in all of this. I've pretty much decided that I'm not going to say anything until it starts to somehow affect me. I guess the main if not only problem with that is I'm not really sure when that line has been crossed.

[Sage]

17 hours ago, pantheory said:

I tend to agree with those that think that you should do nothing at all. Unless you are a dedicated memeber of this church you can always go to another church IMO if the scales tip the wrong way.

Yeah, I think you and others are right. Thanks for the input!

[Sage]

23 hours ago, TABA said:

I used to be CofC.  Individual congregations are independent: no oversight from a synod of other governing body.  The congregation is run by two or more Elders.  Even the minister(s) answer to the elders.  You mentioned that this individual is trying to “take over” the congregation.  That would pretty much require getting himself (only men can be elders) appointed as an elder.  Even then he would need other like-minded elders to get his way.  
 

You mentioned this person probably doesn’t even believe in Christianity.  He’d have to be a very good actor to get made an elder.  
 

Of course there are various ways people can cause problems in organizations, churches or otherwise.  But you don’t get to take over a CofC congregation without being an elder, period.  

I'm honestly not sure what his status is.

[Sage]

On 1/31/2024 at 9:37 AM, TheRedneckProfessor said:

It sounds like about the only option you really have, at this point, is to weigh your regrets and choose the ones you can more easily live with.  You're going to have regrets if you say something; but you're also going to have regrets if you don't.  Accept that.  Accept the fact that however this plays out, you're going to regret something.  Life throws us these curveballs sometimes; and there's not much we can do but keep swinging.  If the regret of keeping quiet outweighs the regret of saying something, then say something.  If not... you get the point.

Those are some valid points that make a lot of sense. I think for the time being that I'm not going to say anything until it starts to somehow affect me which there's a pretty good chance it will.

[TABA]

2 hours ago, Sage said:

The primary reason why this man goes to church is due to his fear of going to hell.

What a sucky way to live.  He should come here and go through religious detox. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

10 hours ago, Sage said:

 I think for the time being that I'm not going to say anything until it starts to somehow affect me which there's a pretty good chance it will.

I am having a hard time understanding how it could affect you, if you don't say anything, and if you don't go to church there.  

[Sage]

11 hours ago, Weezer said:

I am having a hard time understanding how it could affect you, if you don't say anything, and if you don't go to church there.  

At the moment, I don't have a choice but to deal with this individual on a daily basis for the time being. I'm afraid that at some point it's going to somehow in one way or another spill over where a confrontation is unavoidable. That almost happened at least once before between me and him.

[Sage]

19 hours ago, TABA said:

What a sucky way to live.  He should come here and go through religious detox. 

It is a miserable existence for sure.