Causing Deconversions

[Rosa Mystica]

I realize the question has probably been asked before, but I thought I'd ask anyway: have you ever directly caused, or had influence over, the deconversion of someone (or several someones) that you know? And what is your opinion on the matter?

 

In my case, I chose the third option. I have no interest in taking other peoples' faith away from them. Losing my faith has proved to be incredibly painful for me, and I don't wish the same pain for others. Also, people should come to their own conclusions, IMO. It doesn't seem right for me to tell another how to think.

 

That's my stance. I'm curious to know the viewpoints of other posters on this matter.

[Guest Emerson]

I agree with you Rosa Mystica. We shouldn't take other people's faith away from them. Its not right.

 

When I was questioning, I would ask different friends for their opinions and thoughts, and I told them my doubts. Because they weren't used to logical thinking and I don't mean that as an insult, they just weren't into questioning their faith like I was, my questions would really make them think. Not only did it lead to my deconversion but to some of theirs as well.

 

I voted that I did and I wish that I hadn't. In my head, it wasn't my intention to make them deconvert, I was honestly seeking and looking to other xtians for help in my faith. But intentions while may be innocent can have devastating consequences. We may be responsible for certain things even if we wish not to be. Sometimes I wish I had kept my opinions to myself and gone to forums such as this but at the time I did not know such websites existed. It didn't occur to me to type in exchristian or leaving christianity on google. I was an idiot. I don't desire to bring friends and people down with me.

 

But this one person came back and told me how they thought about it all and didn't want to be a xtian anymore. ooookay!!! I really did think it all started with me by just questioning and just saying I didn't believe anymore. Sometimes our actions though we may not see it can have awful consequences. Like the butterfly effect.

 

I may be all right without a religious life and way of thinking, but its not for everyone. If someone loves their god, their faith, their church then I don't want to destroy that for them. Some people really need that and no one has a right to destroy that for them.

[willybilly30]

i dont know if i have or not.

i would ongly care if it brought them alot of pain or something.

if i ever deconvert someone i hope they are happy about it. if they got internet i will lead them here so people can help them threw it.

[Vigile]

I would probably pick another option, "I don't know, but I want to." This should be qualified though. Rosa, you stated that the loss of your faith was painful. The loss of my faith was the most freeing experience of my life. My life as a xtian was hell worrying about hell (for myself and mostly others). It was also a constant battle with the "flesh." Frankly, it sucked. Why wouldn't I try and help a fellow human find this same freedom and release?

 

That said, I know xtians for whom deconversion would be very painful. My parents who have built their entire lives on their faith would be crushed if someone took the rug out from under them. I would never do anything to steal their faith. They are getting old and what's the point? My brother likewise has faith, but faith resides in the back of his mind and I don't believe he is tormented by deeper thoughts that might make keeping his faith painful. In his case he wouldn't be freed, but would probably just move on to ambivalence. Again, why bother.

 

Those I would work to deconvert are the assholes that are trying to make me live by their rules who lobby to change laws and suppress science. Likewise, I would work to deconvert anyone who takes their religion too seriously (as I did). These are the ones who now experience frustration and who I believe would experience freedom if they could lose the baggage.

[DoubleDee]

I'm damn happy my oldest son is no longer a believer and I take full responsiblity

I was the one who took him to church nearly every Sunday and many Wednesday nights also. The one to pray with him every night and the one who prayed with him to receive the Lard.

[Lycorth]

Hasn't happened - yet. I've certainly influenced those who were already out of Xianity, but I've yet to actually deconvert someone. It may happen with one of my best friends, in time, as his Xianity is already seeming a little pointless to him.

 

Overall, I'm not terribly worried about deconverting people, unless their religion is causing them harm or they begin to have questions about it. Otherwise, I leave well enough alone. So long as they're happy and healthy, I don't believe the gods care, in the end.

[bob]

I agree with you Rosa Mystica. We shouldn't take other people's faith away from them. Its not right.

I was influential in my wife (now ex-wife) leaving the faith. All I did was explain why I left...what prompted me to leave. I did not "take" her faith away from her. She left voluntarily.

I do not think it is harmful for me to point out the absurdities of religious faith to believers. I think it is perfectly reasonable. But let me say this; I do not ever bring the subject up with out first being approached by a believer. Not because I think it's wrong, but because I choose to let them fire the first volley. I just look at it as a kind of self defence. They get to swing first.

 

 

BTW...my ex wife has since returned to the faith...and I understand why. She needed something to help with the emotional turmoil of our divorce. I needed help also, but I chose to tough it out on my own, she chose to seek help elsewhere.

[HadouKen24]

Personally, I encourage those around me to critically examine their beliefs. That's quite easy, at the moment, as I tend to hang around mainly with those who have already critically examined their beliefs. I really don't give a damn whether they end up Christian or not, if they've been honest with themselves. If being honest requires leaving Christianity, however, I will do what I must to ease the transition.

[Asimov]

I realize the question has probably been asked before, but I thought I'd ask anyway: have you ever directly caused, or had influence over, the deconversion of someone (or several someones) that you know? And what is your opinion on the matter?

 

In my case, I chose the third option. I have no interest in taking other peoples' faith away from them. Losing my faith has proved to be incredibly painful for me, and I don't wish the same pain for others. Also, people should come to their own conclusions, IMO. It doesn't seem right for me to tell another how to think.

 

That's my stance. I'm curious to know the viewpoints of other posters on this matter.

 

I don't think anyone can "cause" another to deconvert. You can be a catalyst to deconversion but it takes the person listening to what I have to say and actually applying it to their worldview.

[Skankboy]

While I've converted both my Father and Grandmother to Buddhism, they were only really "cultural" christians to begin with and never to my knowledge attended a church.

 

So while I did, in a way, set them on a different path, I can't say I feel bad about it.

 

From my point of view, this all boils down to "is it better to live w/a pleasant illusion (lie) or deal with the harshness of reality (truth)?"

 

While I can understand people not wanting to jeopardize the comfort of others, if asked, I will tell people exactly what I think of their philosophies. Like Asimov said, I cannot deconvert someone. I can only provide the information that leads to their deconversion. The process itself is completely internal. I cannot live a lie and will not abridge myself, again, if asked. That, I believe, is the biggest difference. You don't see many "Buddha Saves" billboards...

[fallenleaf]

I surely had an influence on more than a couple people who did deconvert. But I picked that I wish I hadn't. I believe that Christianity is complete bullshit but don't want to convert anyone to anything. Conversion is such a foul thing for me (since I have regret for engaging in it while a believer) that I refuse to make the same mistake in reverse. Converting to or from something, I am deciding to change someone into someone else for my own motives. True conversion comes from within.

 

There are a few people I have been a poor influence on (mainly because I can't keep my mouth shut). Oh, I don't regret it in any way but it wasn't what I intended.

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

Personally, I encourage those around me to critically examine their beliefs. That's quite easy, at the moment, as I tend to hang around mainly with those who have already critically examined their beliefs. I really don't give a damn whether they end up Christian or not, if they've been honest with themselves. If being honest requires leaving Christianity, however, I will do what I must to ease the transition.

I agree. I get angry when I see someone of any faith who says "I dont believe in evolution" in the middle of Biology class just because of their faith. I get this alot in High School. What the hell? How can you say you don't believe in evolution when you haven't even looked into it? I do challenge the beliefs of others. In my opinion, if they are going to make a claim as big as the ones religion makes, they should be able to back it up.

[Rosa Mystica]

 

I agree. I get angry when I see someone of any faith who says "I dont believe in evolution" just because of their faith. What the hell? How can you say you don't believe in evolution when you haven't even looked into it? I do challenge the beliefs of others. In my opinion, if they are going to make a claim as big as the ones religion makes, they should be able to back it up.

 

Being a part of certain faiths requires the believer to accept things without thinking them through. That is why you hear people making claims such as this one.

 

This sort of intellectual dishonesty is one of the main reasons I deconverted.

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

Being a part of certain faiths requires the believer to accept things without thinking them through. That is why you hear people making claims such as this one.

 

This sort of intellectual dishonesty is one of the main reasons I deconverted.

Yeah, that what makes me mad. Of course, I did the same thing once... but it looks different from the outside looking in.

[Rosa Mystica]

 

Yeah, that what makes me mad. Of course, I did the same thing once... but it looks different from the outside looking in.

 

Definitely. And the scary part is that when you're inside the system, this type of thinking seems to be well-reasoned to you. At least, that's how it was for me.

[The Sage Nabooru]

I agree with the first poster in that I don't want to take anyone's faith away from them. Actually, to put it better, I don't want to be a direct influence on any individual person's beliefs by giving them my own.

 

I believe that each person charts the best course for themselves, and that it's best for them to think it through their own way, rather than having a forced-by-parents religion or another overbearing person tell them what's best for them. That's just what I've found through my own experience.

 

I will heartily encourage any person to think for themselves, perhaps even admonish them to do so - however, I don't want to tell them what to think.

[kellyb]

As I was deconverting, I was sharing my thoughts with my husband, to see what his perspective was.

He was never the religious fanatic I was, really, but he considered himself christian.

By the time I was finished deconverting, he no longer identified as christian, either.

Now, I'm heavily leaning towards atheism, and he's just a don't-really-give-a-eff- agnostic.

Lol....I love that man...

[Jedah]

I would vote "It depends on the person" because thats what deconversion comes down to. For a lot of xians I know, many of them are happy because of their religion. In my parents case xianity "saved" my father from being a delinquint and has caused them no troubles at all. Same is true for a lot of my xian friends, they are fine. I would never want to deconvert someone who doesnt need to be. It isnt my right.

 

BUT - if a xian is suffering through xianity like a current friend of mine is, then yes I will share my points of view. If fundy xianity is making a person into a hatefull and intolerant asshat, then I dont see anything wrong with placing some logic and reason in their path. The friend of mine who is also going to the same college as I considers himself on edge. Ive already pointed this site out to him and he is free to come here if he wants.

[Lilith]

I chose the first option, but the person who deconverted was open-minded and it was not as traumatic for him as it can be for most people, therefore, I'm glad to have helped him answer some questions.

[JeffXL]

My wife stopped believing for a while because of me, but returned to believing after our kitten died.

 

I don't give a rat's ass if someone stays or leaves his or her faith. However, I will not just sit there and nod politely while some Christian fuck lets loose with the lies. If they can't shut up in public, they need to understand that their bullshit will be challenged. I never start a religious argument, but I always finish one.

 

If I have anything to do with someone leaving a faith, fine. As Asimov pointed out, we are not a cause, but a catalyst. The house of cards that is Christianity is what will fall apart; the Bible's lies and contradictions will be more convincing.

[Minus 196]

I find that I have a less passive attitude about this now than I did just after my deconversion. I used to think that I would not wish my deconversion process on anyone, thinking I had nothing better to offer to replace their comfortable delusions in any case.

 

But now I think that, the more people who deconvert, the better. And if I can help in any way, I will. I think our society depends on it. The faster we can remove the artificial constraints and ignorance that suffuse not only american culture because of Christian beliefs, but also middle-eastern culture because of Islam, etc. the faster we'll have a more peaceful, more tolerant world to live in. This is not to say that there are not other evils out there that would remain if religion were gone today, but it would certainly make a huge difference.

 

Besides, how can I let people just wallow in ignorance. I'll treat them with respect, but I won't dodge any opportunity to have an honest discussion with them either. We're offering the truth here (or at least the insight that Christianity is a lie), and I think it should at least be offered to anyone curious enough to discuss it.