Torn between belief and no belief

[KrustyKrabPizza]

      Where do I even start? This is gonna be a long one. At the moment my mind is a mess, it just feels like its everywhere. Like I'm going crazy and I feel stuck between belief and nonbelief. I would say for the most part I still believe in a God just questioning the christian God. I was raised Christian for the most part however there was a period of time where we stopped going to church and all those things i'm not even sure why its just like my parents slacked off with it a bit. For the most part though I group up in a Christian environment. On my mothers side everybody was a christian however on my fathers side nobody was just my grandma. So I got saved started reading my bible, started devoting time to prayer and just spending time with God, i started sharing the Gospel with as many people as i could, i went to church sundays, wednesdays, and any other day i could, I met some people that were doing things i couldnt explain, I was even about to get into deliverance ministry but just before that things went downhill for me. My entire life i had been struggling with my homosexuality, i would pray for it to go away and it never did so out of frustration with God at some point i did give in and got a Gf. That didnt last long cause my “ Reality” which was Christianity at the time quickly set in. I felt conviction while i was with her but breaking up with her because i was choosing God also devastated me. I rolled with it though because every christian i came across who had homosexual attractions would just choose to not act on those attractions and the Bible also condemned it. I just got to a point recently where I started questioning everything, i started coming across tiktokers who were christians for years and they deconstructed, i started reading/ researching, and then i found this place where ive read many testimonies. Throughout all this mess and my journey as i mentioned ive had a few experiences that I just cant deconstruct well. Ill list a few experiences below

 

Experience 1

 

This was during the time i had a Gf. To keep the story short ill fast forward basically i worked with somebody who was a pastor. He and his wife are very devoted to God and have been for years. They also knew my parents because they had counseled them at before. So at some point they found out i had a gf and so did my mom. I was told that the pastors wife was very I guess you could say spiritually gifted so they would say she could hear God audibly, see demons and the devil, cast them out, and etc.. After knowing for a while that i had a gf the pastors wife contacted my mom with a word from God for me. So that same day my mother asked me to meet with her and them which i agreed to because i didnt think much of it. I dropped off my Gf at her house and headed over to meet them. What she told me terrified me and still does. She said God told her I would lose my soul if I stayed with my gf. She explained how the Devil even grabbed her and was choking her while telling her not to speak with me because he had placed a person in my life to destroy it, that person being my Gf. They said some things that were accurate, things i cant figure out how they knew. For example thay stated how my gf didnt want me to attend this meeting and how she tried to stop me while also wanting to come with me and those things were correct. Before dropping my gf off she did say “ Dont go, i have a bad feeling, let me go with you, and youre not coming back are you”? This whole experienced scared the crap out of me. I didnt want to lose my soul. Even now i think about this experience and it terrifies me because all i can think about is what if the pastors wife is right

 

Experience 2

 

Like ive mentioned i struggled so much with homosexuality to the point where i sought out deliverance. I went through multiple deliverances with people and at home watching deliverance videos. To be honest in none of those experiences did I feel anything change. I was still the same me. My thoughts were not different, my desires weren't different, i didnt feel anything coming out of me. This is why I went through so many because every time i was like this one might be different. This one might be the one that changes me. These people i went through deliverance with were experienced; they had been doing this for some time and shared many testimonies with me. Testimonies that have no explanation for them such as healings, knowing things about a person they've never met, and “ Demons' ' manifesting through people to the point where sometimes they even speak through them. These people offered to train me and at first i said yes until everything went downhill and i didnt go back to be trained for the deliverance ministry. How could these things be logically explained? One could think oh well maybe these people with Demons had a mental illness are were just schizophrenia but then its like well a lot of people are manifesting so in reality how likely is it that their all schizophrenic? During my time of being a Chrisian i watched so many pastors and prophets most working with deliverance. Their videos would show them preaching and bunches of people from the crowds would start manifesting “ Demons” to the point where like i said they would speak, act weird, even throw up sometimes. I would watch these pastors cast them out, touch people and they would fall, heal people, everybody being able to speak in tongues, and etc.. Maybe some of you have heard of these people or maybe have watched them too. Possibly you guys could shed some light on them or have an explanations for the things they do. These people are prophet lovy, isaiah saldivar, vlad savchuk, mike signorelli. 

 

Experience 3 

 

I came across this random lady i had never met before at a grocery store this was before i was deconstructing and pretty much at the start of getting saved. I was with my mom and as i was getting a cart my mom told this lady God bless you. The lady looked at me walking away and stopped me she was telling me how i was going to do something special for God and how the enemy was scared of me because what i was gonna do was gonna effect the kingdom of darkness greatly. This part i can deconstruct cause anybody can tell someone this but what affirmed it for me at the time and what i cant get passed now is at the end of all of it she goes “ Can you draw?”. I had never met her before, I hadnt mentioned that at all and i had nothing on me to tell her that. I said “ I can draw and im pretty good at it too”. Her response to that was that the Holy Spirit had shown her a person drawing and that person was me. So she prayed over my hands saying they were anointed. She then turned over to my mother and asked her a question she said “ Did you have complications giving birth?” and my mom did in fact have complications with me. The ladys response was that the reason for it was because the enemy was trying to have me not be born. Till this day i cannot explain how she knew those things having never talked to me before this. I replay it in my head trying to figure out a logical explanation for it and try to see if something gave it away but i havent gotten to a conclusion

 

 

Final thoughts 

 

I apologize for how long this testimony has been I’ve just been a mess and figured i would spill my thoughts out here. It still terrifies me to think im wrong if i choose non belief. It terrifies me to think there really might be a hell. It terrifies me not being sure of whats after death. It terrifies me to think when people say “ youre being deceived” that it might be true. I feel like ive read/researched ndes, history about the bible, psychology/nuerology, evolution, and yet i still feel like ive gotten no where with it. I want to know what you guys make of these “ supernatural” experiences, how you would explain them logically, what solidified yalls non belief, and what you guys read or discovered through research and study. What did you guys find through studying the bible and what really helped you deconstruct everything. Thank you all

 

 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

WELCOME!!

No need to apologize for anything.  You did a very good job summarizing your situation!  Take all the time and space you need to vent the frustration.  

 

I am a retired mental health therapist and can tell your mind is in good shape considering what you have been through.  It will take time, but I can tell you have the "grit" it takes to pull you through this.  If you didn't have the grit it will take, you would have never posted the above.  First of all, it doesn't have to be an all or none decision at this time.  It took me over 20 years from beginning to question, until walking out the church door in the middle of a sermon.  Over the years the "don't add ups" accumulated, and I launched into an indepth study of religions and gods, and how we got the bible.  The evidence for the God as described in the Bible just did not add up, and the evidence for the bible being the word of god did not add up.  We can walk you through those and many other questions you might have. 

 

As a behavioral and social scientist studying and observing human growth and development over 50 years I can tell you that I thouroughly believe you were born with your sexual orientation.   The fact that you haven't been able to change that is a good sign!  You know who you are and are mentally secure enough that you don't have to go into psychological denial of who you are.  

 

It is past my bedtime and I am not at my best right now, so I and others will get back to you later.  I invite you to read my testimonial called (if I remember correctly)  RELIGIOUS TRUTH: A GRADUAL AWAKENING.  It sums up several of your questions, and was posted a long time ago so you may have to go through several pages to find it.  It has to be downloaded.  If you can't do that, we can steer you to other material and personally answer questions for you.  HANG IN THERE!!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Also, go to the "blogs" section and scroll through the articles by Wertbag.  You will probably find some answers to your questions there. 

[◊ Weezer ◊]

One more comment before I go to bed.  A while back I heard a very insightful comment by a gay man when some one told him he was living a sinful life.  He said, "if god didn't want me to be gay, why did he make me this way?"

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Welcome! Your life sounds so familiar. 

 

"I was told that the pastors wife was very I guess you could say spiritually gifted so they would say she could hear God audibly, see demons and the devil, cast them out"
There are no demons, no angels, no gods. These folks are gifted at theatrics (to make it seem more real) and pretending their imaginary friend is real and has magic power over their imaginary enemies. If they said that Spiderman had revealed to them that Loki was trying to trick you, that would be laughable. But change the names to Jesus and the devil and given your past programming of belief, it makes it seem plausible when it isn't. It's like adults doing cosplay except they think it's real.

 

"things i cant figure out how they knew. For example thay stated how my gf didnt want me to attend this meeting"

It's normal for normal people to want their loved ones to stay away from a cult. Your Gf wanted to protect you from them, and of course desires you and doesn't want to lose you to a cult. The cult people know that and act like knowing this is magic information when it is just expected human behavior. Homosexuality is normal, part of the natural distribution of genetic diversity in a group. Old tribal taboos are no reason to feel bad about yourself. 

 

About demons, I first converted to Christianity when I saw an advert for The Exorcist. That led to 30 years of on-fire belief. During that time I heard a LOT about spiritual warfare (completely imaginary) and walked with pastors around town dabbing olive oil on doorways and binding this and releasing that, blah blah blah. This is what happens when humans believe in magic and myths. Look at the old temples in Greece that were built by hand. They really believed in these other gods, who we all know were imaginary. When I finally saw through Christianity, I watched the movie The Exorcist and it was almost funny. Everything that had been spooky before I now knew was just Hollywood special effects, and the story-line was absurd. 

 

In my old church there was a woman who started shrieking during a service, with guttural growls and such. The pastor assumed it was a demon and did the typical "warfare". But this lady had made a lot of bad life choices (drugs, hanging with a bad crowd, petty crime) and saw an opportunity to blame someone else for her problems, so by acting like she had a demon (even if she did so subconsciously) the blame for her poor choices shifted to the devil and she received compassion and attention from those she respected. But unlike the instant deliverances in the Jesus fables, months later she was still being prayed over because... there are no demons and her life choices remained with all the fallout that such choices bring, and she still craved compassion. Again, it's like cosplay they pretend is real. 

 

With your Experience 3, cold-reading people is something that people (usually scammers or professional magicians) can become skilled at doing. Other times people get lucky, like millions of people playing lottery and only one getting it. And honestly, that's supposed to be The God? Of all the things she could have said that came directly from The God, those were the things God wanted to say?

 

Even after I deconverted, my mind was used to 30 years of daily programming with Christianity and seeing the world filled with invisible enemies and an angry god that claimed to love me while demanding bloodshed to forgive. None of it made any sense and my mind needed to sort through things. I started having dreams where I had to confront "the devil" and realized that this thing I feared was my own creativity and desires and rational thought. 

 

The church doesn't want you to think, to express your individuality and passions. They want you to conform, to submit, and to become a clone of them. That makes them comfortable. But you are seeing through the myths, and still finding the fears placed there by years of programming. I still encounter imaginary fears, even this morning. Not about demons, but other things like people thinking poorly of me. I confront the fears, call them ridiculous, think it through and move on. If they return, do the same. 

 

You have an amazing power in your ability to reason and make choices. Those will lead you to a better life outside the grasp of a controlling cult. The entire invisible world of the Bible is fake and always has been. If you had been exposed to Islam or Hinduism growing up, those would have been the dominant invisible world the cult would expect you to adopt. Instead, you had Christianity.

 

But now you are seeing through, and the old fears that you thought were critical to your survival are being called out as mere fables used to control and manipulate you into submission. Embrace your freedom and ability to make life choices, and continue to learn about why the Bible isn't at all trustworthy and is just a collection of fables and lies written by Middle Eastern men over centuries. And again, welcome!

[◊ Weezer ◊]

Krusty, I came back this morning to write more, but Fuego said it even better than I could have.  

 

Yes, there are people who have an uncanny ability to "read" people and situations.  We used to call them fortune tellers or psychics, and most of them I was familiar with were not christian. 

 

You seem to have a rational thinking and logical mind.  Trust it, and let it guide you into the future.  I believe the turning point for me after years of struggling was when I stopped praying for more faith in the religion I was born into, and started praying to find and understand truth.  That was when things began to fall into place.  I have been "out" for over 30 years now, and the longer I am out, the more I am glad I left the faith.  I have a peace I never had before.  And at 82 years of age, and with some health problems, I could die at any time.  But I have no fear of  Hell.  Or hope of Heaven.  Maybe there is an afterlife??  Perhaps some kind of consciousness after this life??   Reincarnation??  All things we cannot know for sure until we get on the other side of the "curtain".

 

There is one thing I brought with me from the teaching attributed to Jesus, and which I have faith in.  Loving our "neighbors" as self is the salvation of mankind on this earth.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I also had people come up to me with specific prophecies and "words from the lord."  One was an evangelist who came to the church and called me out specifically and shared very detailed information.  I found out later a couple of the guys in the men's prayer group I led had had lunch with the evangelist a few days beforehand and my name had come up during the course of their conversation.  What the guy shared wasn't specific details from god; it was just gossip.

 

Another was a woman I had never met who knew the particular details of a missions ministry I was preparing to launch.  Turned out she was involved in the same seniors ministry as my mom, who had mentioned my plans in a prayer request.  Again, nothing more spiritual than plain old gossip.

 

People talk.  Shallow people talk about other people and not much else. 

[Casualfanboy16]

16 hours ago, KrustyKrabPizza said:

My entire life i had been struggling with my homosexuality, i would pray for it to go away and it never did so out of frustration with God at some point i did give in and got a Gf. That didnt last long cause my “ Reality” which was Christianity at the time quickly set in. I felt conviction while i was with her but breaking up with her because i was choosing God also devastated me. I rolled with it though because every christian i came across who had homosexual attractions would just choose to not act on those attractions and the Bible also condemned it. I just got to a point recently where I started questioning everything, i started coming across tiktokers who were christians for years and they deconstructed, i started reading/ researching, and then i found this place where ive read many testimonies. Throughout all this mess and my journey as i mentioned ive had a few experiences that I just cant deconstruct well. Ill list a few experiences below

Firstly, I would like to say hello @KrustyKrabPizza, and welcome to the forum!! Love the username btw! Spongebob was my childhood!

 

Secondly, this part here feels pretty similar to my experiences surrounding my sexuality, although I never had a bf. I too would pray for my attraction to men to go away numerous times. I would feel guilty and disgusted by myself for feelings certain feelings, thinking certain thoughts. I tried to convince myself over and over again that I wasn't gay, and did everything in my power to get rid of it, wether it be praying to rid myself of it, looking at Bible verses or preachers condemning homosexuality, looking at stories of ex-gays, or trying to force myself to watch straight porn to try and "fix" myself.

 

It didn't work, and after so much wrestling with myself and inner turmoil, after countless unanswered prayers, after not even receiving a sliver of acceptance from a god I thought I could wholeheartedly trust, after all the contradictions and questions I had just not adding up, I couldn't believe it anymore. Giving it up wasn't easy, but I feel more free than I did under Christianity's oppressive rules and restrictions. I prefer keeping an open mind, so I go by agnostic because it not only feels right to me, but also intellectually honest because I don't believe in god, but there could be something out there.

 

I (and the rest of us) hope you will have a positive experience on this forum as you progress through your journey. We will be here every step of the way! This site is full of many wonderful people, so hope you find a little home of sorts here!

 

See ya on the forums!

 

-Casual

 

P.S THE KRUSTY KRAB PIZZA IS THE PIZZA FOR YOU AND ME

 

(I would send a gif, but my connection is bad)

[pantheory]

Howdy KKP,

 

A warm welcome to our forum. Yeah KKP, this forum is dedicated to Ex-Christians, many or most of which are not atheists like I am, since many still believe in a God of some kind, just not a Christian biblical kind of God. As you know, the God of the old Testament is a pretty tough and vengeful God, while Jesus of the New testament is a pussycat like person who turns the other cheek and forgives the enemies of the Jews.

 

The old testament is an interesting collection of fictional stories, and the new testament is comprised of more gentle and sorrowful fairy tales. 

 

Religion can be a happy or a daunting experience. Your gf unfortunately also believes in the BS in the bible. Many people here have spent a great deal of time studying the bible, and some have studied it from different perspectives including myself. Many believe that all man-made religions are pure BS.

 

According to my beliefs, humans are simply animals, just more intelligent than the others. There's nothing to be afraid of. Live the only life you will ever have, this one -- to the best of your understanding and ability. If fear is a part of your belief then you haven't studied or learned enough yet IMHO.

 

Cheers to you and welcome to our forum. Hope you decide to stay with us. If so I believe most of your fears will fade away on an ongoing basis.

[☆ moxieflux66 ☆]

On 4/13/2024 at 2:37 PM, pantheory said:

Jesus of the New testament is a pussycat like person

 

On 4/13/2024 at 2:37 PM, pantheory said:

Hope you decide to stay with us. If so I believe most of your fears will fade away on an ongoing basis.

I second that! 

 

And welcome KKP! We are glad you are here and feel free to keep posting. Confusion is part of the deconstruction so take your time until you're ready to let it go. Meanwhile, I recommend you work on trusting yourself, one of the worst things xtianity takes from you. Your instincts and intuition don't steer you wrong! 

We'll see you around the forum! 

Moxie