Minus 196 Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 One of my biggest challenges as I talk about my deconversion with my Christian friends and family is the real disconnect in communication. They have a different mindset and speak a different language than those of us who are no longer Christian. So much so, that if you point out the glaring inconstencies in the Bible we now find so obvious, they shrug them off as if they don't comprehend, or as if to say "What's the big deal?" It's off site, but I've just finished posting an essay that I'm really hoping will address this issue by trying to communicate in psychological terms how this real disconnect in perception and communication occurs. I think this is the single most important thing to accomplish in trying to convey some insight into our experience to those who are still Christian, so I'm interested in any feedback. The essay can be read here: http://savedtoskeptic.sylvangate.com/index.php?itemid=11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Bravo! An excellent piece of work! And spot on too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Good job, Minus 196! I hope you get some christians reading it and thinking about what you said. You must have found the force of the community in christianity also a big block to looking at the bible truthfully, no? The feeling of belonging to the community is so rewarding, and fear of losing all those friends and/or family so strong, that I think many christians get enough gratification that they go along with cognitive dissonance for a long time. And Muslims -- fuggedabodit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godless Wonder Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Good job, well written, and thorough Very nice. "Faith, to me, is a dirty word now." Ahh, now there's a meme worth spreading. And I know just the dirty word it is, too: Faith is Bullshit. Just try replacing the word "faith" with bullshit, and see how well it fits. "Faith based initiatives." "He was a man of great faith." "I believe it on faith." "It's a matter of faith for me." "You've just got to have faith." I've proposed before the idea of commandeering the word "faith," and just using it as though ti were a synonym for bullshit. When faced with some ridiculous proposition, just say contemptuously, "What a load of faith!" or "You're so full of faith!" Or even, "Dammit, I stepped in faith!" or, "Oh dammit! The dog faithed on the carpet again." "Be fruitful, and mulitply!" little meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minus 196 Posted May 7, 2006 Author Share Posted May 7, 2006 You must have found the force of the community in christianity also a big block to looking at the bible truthfully, no? Good point about the "fellowship" aspect of the Church, ficino. I guess I have another wall to add to my little diagram. I'm sure there are lots more actually, but I only had so much space, lol. And I know just the dirty word it is, too: Faith is Bullshit. Just try replacing the word "faith" with bullshit, and see how well it fits. "Faith based initiatives." "He was a man of great faith." "I believe it on faith." "It's a matter of faith for me." "You've just got to have faith." ROFL, GW! It's amazing how well that works! I'll definitely remember that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
white_raven23 Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 You must have found the force of the community in christianity also a big block to looking at the bible truthfully, no? Good point about the "fellowship" aspect of the Church, ficino. I guess I have another wall to add to my little diagram. I'm sure there are lots more actually, but I only had so much space, lol. NO! The "fellowship aspect is NOT a wall! Think about it.....it persists throughout....it lives between the spaces of the walls....it is everpresent.....UNTIL you get beyond the outer wall. The fellowship aspect would be the atmosphere or better.....the miasma touching, influencing, affecting, and pressuring all of the people in every aspect, and one every "level" to the outer wall. So in truth, it is sort of the weather system within the boxes. A constant wind that always blows towards the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 NO! The "fellowship aspect is NOT a wall! Think about it.....it persists throughout....it lives between the spaces of the walls....it is everpresent.....UNTIL you get beyond the outer wall. The fellowship aspect would be the atmosphere or better.....the miasma touching, influencing, affecting, and pressuring all of the people in every aspect, and one every "level" to the outer wall. So in truth, it is sort of the weather system within the boxes. A constant wind that always blows towards the center. I don't think I agree but maybe you can help me out. To me the "fellowship" part would be a wall. As a matter of fact it could be the final wall. I would call it acceptance rather than fellowship though. On his list of walls damnation is the final wall. So in a sense once you no longer fear hell and stop believing in the bible you can be free. This is far from true. I'm sure many have stayed in Christianity after all the walls were crossed. They feared not being accepted was the final trial they had to face. Think about it. In the catholic church in the past, one of the punishments was excommunication. They knew this was a strong tool to use back then (Dark Ages?). For the people, isolation from your community meant certian death. It's not as bad these days in most places but the feeling that no one will accept you is very strong. For me personally it started off as a child. I got saved after hearing a message about hell which was my first fear. Then to add to that my dad started spouting out "As for me and my house, We Will Serve the LORD!!!!!" Now I had two fears. One of not being accepted in my family and being thrown out for not following the word of God. As a child the feeling of being away from my parents all alone in the bad bad world kept me in line. As an adult it's still the same. You may lose friends, and family. For people in buisness they may lose their social network so many will just go around saying they're a christian. Some might say no they don't but as I've read in topics posted here and on the stories in the news we know that being a nonchristian or atheist has it's consequences in american society. Atheist as I've read are the most untrusted group of people. In a majority christian nation being anything else is usually not in your best interest. I also believe I read a few post saying "I wish I could lie about it" or "I wish I could go back" long after they were deconverted just because of the social aspect. I also know people personally that choose to stay christian even though they don't fear hell or church dogma. Their home is on the bible belt where most everyone is christian and not being accepted would be one of the worst things they could do. Or what if you are a pastor and you stopped believing in hell or the bible as the word of God. Scaling the previously mentioned walls would not be the final wall. You would have to deal with the loss of acceptance with you flock that you would be letting down as well as losing your job and social network and maybe your family. To me this shows that the "Acceptance" wall is strongest wall and highest wall (for some it's damnation but it differs from person to person). I believe you said it's not a wall since it is just something always present and always felt. I agree but in a different sense. Imagine you are really scaling extremely high walls that were previously mentioned. Then you see off in the distance a wall much much higher than the others. This wall constantly reminds you that scaling the other walls would be pointless and that you should stay where you are. That no matter how many walls you climb this wall is impossible to cross. I think many here are past this wall but some are still scaling down this high wall, wondering if they should just climb back up and go back to where they were since it's the safest path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts