Guest JP Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 http://www.raptureready.com/soap/watchman.htm I read that page and was a little bothered by it; particularly the scriptures they quote that seem to fit today's society. This one especially bothered me: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. It just bothered me because I think of all the people I know (myself included) who don't put up with sound doctrine, who believe what they want to believe. It bothers me that the Bible said it would happen. Now, I'm not saying I'm considering reconversion, but how does everyone else deal with stuff like this? It seems every time I read a Bible passage, it's something that pertains to today somehow, even to the minutest detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 It sounds likely to happen, so it's easy to believe that someone could write that and it come to pass. But of course that particular passage is very vague, and could even apply to christians if you really want it to apply to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Helmet Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 The way I see it that kind of statement is not something I would call very hard to predict. When has there not been people who hear only what they want to hear? (creationists anyone? ) Bible 'predictions' are no more magic than today's cold readers and charlatans. Here I can make you a prediction that holds : "There will come a time where mens will disagree and destroy themselves and those around them in their foolishness". Fits today right?... and the middle-ages, and antiquity, and very probably tomorrow and after. It sounds right, but it's nothing more than a common fact. No miracle there. I wish I could word it better but I hope you see my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JP Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Ugh! I hate when fundy websites get to me. But I am getting better; at least I can look at them now and cower with fear. Of course, there still is some worry there, but I'm learning to work through that; you guys always help me in that department. I guess I still have some religious issues to work out. I'm sorry for sounding like a loose cannon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I feel the same way sometimes, but think about all of the reasons you know that the bible is nothing more than a Book of Myths. None of the books of the bible refer to today or to events occurring now. They all refer to the time in which they were written. These links may be helpful: http://www.religionisbullshit.org/bible_prophecy.html http://www.religionisbullshit.org/bible.html This site is great, too: http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 It sounds likely to happen, so it's easy to believe that someone could write that and it come to pass. But of course that particular passage is very vague, and could even apply to christians if you really want it to apply to anyone. Bingo. A nutty, doctrinaire cult with a habit for grim "prophecies" and all sorts of things that they know people won't go along with could very well say something like this in order to make a pre-emptive strike. To me, it seems an attempt to add veracity to their dire predictions (and hence, their entire cult) by taking an event they know will happen and casting it as people being evil ere the end of time. Of course, I've speculated on the existence of malevolent noncorporeal lifeforms, or what people would be quick to call "evil spirits." Now, assuming such beings exist and like to stir up shit, why not take the form of some charismatic cult leader who was executed and dupe his devoted fan club to get a crazy religion going? Such beings would probably be crafty enough to inspire a gullible enough human to write something like that prophecy of the world turning away from "sound doctrine" since it would serve as evidence of the cult's veracity. Of course, that is more in line with my own personal religious belief in such beings ("Aetins" meaning "eaters" or "devourers") and there isn't any way to prove or disprove that, and hence remains only a hunch. That stuff may well not even exist and is a whole 'nother can o' worms. Either way, shit like that so-called prophecy exists for one reason, to cast probable social events in such a manner as to give weight to the cult's claims and strengthen a hold on believers. Or of course, the ramblings of a starved ascetic hallucenating from lack of food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishapod Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I hate when fundy websites get to me. JP, This article might help you get over that: Jesus is a jerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Jeff Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I hate when fundy websites get to me. JP, This article might help you get over that: Jesus is a jerk Wow, what an awesome article and site! Glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 Its really just more common sense on par with "There will be nonbelievers" Its obvious nonbelievers would have facts to back up their nonbelief, especially to the one writing up the con. Christians can call me and brag when a prediction about a huge noteable disaster happens at the exact place and time as predicted and highly described by scripture, but that will never really happen since most of the prophecies in RV are just obvious "No shit sherlocks" that I could have made up myself. Of course there will be those who disagree with the bible and have experts with good reasons against it. Verses like these are nothing but brainwashing mechanics designed to make sure those who already believe continue belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 http://www.raptureready.com/soap/watchman.htm I read that page and was a little bothered by it; particularly the scriptures they quote that seem to fit today's society. This one especially bothered me: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. It just bothered me because I think of all the people I know (myself included) who don't put up with sound doctrine, who believe what they want to believe. It bothers me that the Bible said it would happen. Now, I'm not saying I'm considering reconversion, but how does everyone else deal with stuff like this? It seems every time I read a Bible passage, it's something that pertains to today somehow, even to the minutest detail. Just what is the sound doctrine you don't put up with. Which of the myrids of doctrines is it? The sound doctrine that there ain't nothing to it is as least as good as any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbolt Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 JP The whole Old Testament is one loooooong ode to people who heard what they wanted to hear, and I betcha this verse has been used in every generation since the myth of Christianity started. And if you read the Gospels, then Jesus was suppose to return in the lifetime of the people alive. At least Preterits have that part figured out. Which means, not even Christians agree about the interpretation of this nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. First of all, when the bible makes a claim against myths, it is either talking about other religions, or reality. Second of all, if a religion had been pieced together over thousands of years by borrowing from other religions that were proved time and time again to not be true, the single-most intelligent assumption on part of the writers would be that eventually, somebody is going to realize that their religion is bullshit too. So, they tie it together with a negative (selfishness) and people refrain from questioning the religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Emerson Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 hmm because the bible like any religious text or any wisdom or spiritual book, is right in certain things. It talks of the golden rule and a lot of people agree that its a good "rule" to live by. It also talks about being a good person and beinig good to your neighbor, etc. Some people do twist things for their own purposes. Like cults that demand that their followers kill themselves for a "sacrifice" to god such as those of the heaven's gate cult. maybe the writers realized that certain people are like that and twist things for their own agenda and wrote about it. religion is man-made, who really knows what was going on in their minds, but they could write things out and tell stories. its also not hard to write in your own pov and opinions on life, which is what you see a lot in the bible. JP, I think that no matter what path a person chooses that they will have doubts and struggles in that path. We don't know everything so its only natural. If you want to convert, then convert. Don't feel that you have to apologise or anything for that, if that's what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxic Posted May 8, 2006 Share Posted May 8, 2006 I feel the same way sometimes, but think about all of the reasons you know that the bible is nothing more than a Book of Myths. It's not only a book of myths, it's a book of myths that was somewhat arbitrerily put together some 300 years after Jee-Suss is supposed to have lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 http://www.raptureready.com/soap/watchman.htm I read that page and was a little bothered by it; particularly the scriptures they quote that seem to fit today's society. This one especially bothered me: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. It just bothered me because I think of all the people I know (myself included) who don't put up with sound doctrine, who believe what they want to believe. It bothers me that the Bible said it would happen. Now, I'm not saying I'm considering reconversion, but how does everyone else deal with stuff like this? It seems every time I read a Bible passage, it's something that pertains to today somehow, even to the minutest detail. Well, this was one of my fears (along with hell) that I faced when I first walked away. Then, I started to read about it, found this one verse that always seems to snap me out of the fear of the rapture.... Matthew 16:28 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his Kingdom." Unless there are 2,000 year old people walking the earth, I think we missed the boat already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evelyn Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 There were people following "unsound doctrine" in Paul's time and in the early days of the church there were all kinds of "heresies", so, really, when you get right down to it, this verse applies to all of church history. In more recent times, you can bet the Roman Catholic Church authorities thought Martin Luther was also following unsound doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duderonomy Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Paul also wrote in Galatians that some were following 'another Gospel, which is not another'. I don't think Paul liked anyone disagreeing with him concerning his 'revelation'. Consider his dust up with Peter about who should eat with whom. Arguing with the first pope like that! Why, the church could have split right then! And wasn't there a story in acts that tells of Paul and Barnabus going their separate ways when their argument got to be too great for them to stay together? As for rapture Ready, I used to be a devotee of that site. I posted there and read there for years when I was a fundie. I went back after I wasn't anymore, and for making a couple of statements (very civil, thank you) in a thread about Jehovah Witnesses about Christian behavior I was banned by a nice Christian Moderator lady named Becky, who's avatar said that she had 'the Jezebel spirit'. Oy, what a faricken mess. I wouldn't put a lot of weight to what Paul wrote, anymore than his followers that live in their own little fairy tale world. And I don't know for sure, but I'd bet that Luther also used this sound doctrine clause when he nailed his thesis to the door of the Catholic Church. Oh yeah, JP... that verse could also fit any society at any time in history. Anywhere there is a disagreement over what to believe or who is to lead or whatever. Technology changes, but people stay the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueGiant Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Put up a dartboard, and throw a lot of darts, eventually you will hit a bullseye...it's a long book, and it is even easier to manipulate it when you start cutting and pasting passages from it. As for people complaining about others being too licentous, following what they will to whatever excess, I'd like to point out that I have seen this in writing from the Roman Empire commenting and debating on this (the Satyricon is rather interesing in that regard). Various speeches and philosophers from that era show us that, well, people are largely kvetching about the same things then that they do now. A lot just depends on ones perception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick5 Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 http://www.raptureready.com/soap/watchman.htm I read that page and was a little bothered by it; particularly the scriptures they quote that seem to fit today's society. This one especially bothered me: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths. It just bothered me because I think of all the people I know (myself included) who don't put up with sound doctrine, who believe what they want to believe. It bothers me that the Bible said it would happen. Now, I'm not saying I'm considering reconversion, but how does everyone else deal with stuff like this? It seems every time I read a Bible passage, it's something that pertains to today somehow, even to the minutest detail. Ok look, those who wrote that shit thousands of years ago were well aware that it wasn't true, and that one day their fraud would get exposed, so they wrote that as a last attempt to keep as many followers in ignorance as possible even in our days of knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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