Guest Emerson Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 what's everyone's take on Karma? If I'm rude to someone then of course I expect them to be rude back, that's cause and effect. To me, that's not Karma. If people come back in their next life as beetles or whatever, then who or what ordains this Karma? I guess I'm not really a huge believer in Karma but I'd like to know what others think of this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 hmmm...interisting question. Now let me preface this by saying I have studied a lot of eastern religions, and in fact tend to consider myself a Taoist. Karma can be viewed in several different ways. There is they type of Karma you mentioned which is tied to reincarnation. This type is mostly associated with Hinduism and certain forms of more theistic Buddhism. This is viewed in several different ways depending on who you talk to. Some would say that the form you recieve in your next life is chosen by gods as a reward or punishment, but most in Hindusim as well as in Buddhism would say say that Karma is a force all its own, no gods required. Something along the lines of you chose your own form as a result of the choices you make. I don't personaly know what I think of all of this since I don't really have any reason to believe we are reincarnated... Now there is a simplier form of Karma that isn't connected to reincarnation, when you mentioned being rude to someone being cause and effect and not Karma you are not entirely correct, at least as far as how karma is defined in some of the eastern religions. Karma basicly becomes a form of cause and effect in eastern religions with no afterlife concept, which includes some forms of Buddhism, Taoism, and Confucinism. In some ways its a difficult concept to explain because it has to do with the overall nature of the world around us. Lets take Taoism as an example because I am most familier with it The Tao is a totally neutral and non-personal force. It does not punish you for wrong doing, however when you work against the Tao (read the basic nature of reality, the word Tao literaly means "the way") you will punish yourself. One would not blame gravity, if someone jumped off a cliff and died. So the important thing is to be aware of the general nature of the world and learn to work with it. Of course the gravity analogy isn't perfect because Taoism doesn't hold that morals are absolute, but are fluid and change depending on situations and perspective. Anyway I don't know if managed to answer your question anywhere in that incoherent rambling, but hopfully something in there applies However, I do love to talk about eastern philosophy, and you asked the question, so you only have yourself to blame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHEMtron Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 i dont believe in karma either. just consequences. now not really karma, but fate... i always hated that saying, "i believe things happen for a reason." that just an attempt to justify unfavorable events. i especially hate it when it's used in terms of a relationship. your boyfriend dumped you cause you were a bad girlfriend!! not because of of some fate that you were meant for something or somebody else! take responsibility for your actions, or lack of actions!! i dont believe that "things happen for a reason", but more "there's a reason why things happened". take responsibility for the consequences people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 I frequently long for karma, which is a lot different than thinking that it's plausible or even possible. For one thing, I can't postulate a mechanism that could actually make it happen. The closest that I've come to a hypothesis: People who consistently behave badly towards others have established a habit of bad behaviour. This means that eventually they'll run afoul of the wrong person, who will retaliate in kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted May 9, 2006 Share Posted May 9, 2006 Karma was the main issue I had with Buddhism when I was checking it out. Something told me that some over reaching, cosmic foot wasn't going to kick me in the the ass for something someone who wasn't actually me did however many lives ago. It just rang as bogus to me. I want to be responsible for my actions, not for the actions of who I might have been in some past life. The whole deal was just weird for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eponymic Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Karma is essentially an underdeveloped, or early explanation, of how when you affect the energy around you, it causes you to draw certain forces towards you (or push certain things away from) you. So if you work with a negative mindset towards people, you draw negative surroundings, relationships, etc. towards you. In a nutshell (since I am leaving work & gotta roll). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 I don't believe in karma, since bad people get away with things all the time, and good people get shit upon by Life everyday, no matter how much good they do. It would be great if karma really did exist, since there is really no other way that any sort of justice will ever be served in this universe. But, much like I don't believe in fate or predestination, nor can I accept the idea of karma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffXL Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Yeah, karma involves the idea of something of you and me continuing after death. Just another attempt to force you into a mould of how he or she (or they) think you should live. Unlike Christianity, though, you have a chance to get to the Hindu/Buddhist/Sikh/ad nauseum fantasyland/fantasy state of being eventually. I never could get my head around the Buddhist concept of anatta. Your ego dies, but you go on. Wha--? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Eh - I don't discount the possibility of an afterlife based on my denial of the concept of karma. Karma also affects this life, not just one's chances in the next life, yet it implies a sort of supernatural governing principle acitve in the universe, which I cannot accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 what's everyone's take on Karma? If I'm rude to someone then of course I expect them to be rude back, that's cause and effect. To me, that's not Karma. If people come back in their next life as beetles or whatever, then who or what ordains this Karma? I guess I'm not really a huge believer in Karma but I'd like to know what others think of this topic. I don't see any reason to think that there is some cognitive force out there meting out "justice". Karma is basically the idea that there are consequences to our actions, not the "what goes around, comes around" stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 We can take karma as a metaphor for the idea that what goes around, comes around, what you reap, you sow. As a metaphor, fine. If we take the doctrine literally as propounded in classical Hinduism, it presumes the doctrine of an occult soul that maintains its identity in transit from one body to another. I think this idea is incoherent. I understand the "soul" as collapsing into "mind" and "emotion" and other functions of the brain and nervous system. I understand one's individual identity as formed by the narrative of the string of experiences that make up an individual life. An individual life is lived in a body. A mind is the sum total of the functions of the brain. To me, there is no sense to saying that "I", a distinct identity, had this body in one lifetime and another body in another. The "I" in one body is a unique person, unique in that body. Another body is another person. End of story. So there is no bridge between one person and a later person. Therefore no consequences of actions done by one person lie upon the same person in another body. The second person is a different person. The actions of the prior person, in a prior body, are unique to that person. The later person is just a different gal or guy altogether. So karma is a tissue of words. It only serves as metaphor of the thought that our actions come back to bring us consequence in THIS life, the only life in which "we" are "we." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 Lets take Taoism as an example because I am most familier with it The Tao is a totally neutral and non-personal force. It does not punish you for wrong doing, however when you work against the Tao (read the basic nature of reality, the word Tao literaly means "the way") you will punish yourself. One would not blame gravity, if someone jumped off a cliff and died. So the important thing is to be aware of the general nature of the world and learn to work with it. THats...pretty much it. I dont think there is some uber spritual force behind it but I think "cause and effect" goes a bit further then what we first realize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 My Karma ran over my Dogma. Sorry, I know I'm a nerd, I just had to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 10, 2006 Share Posted May 10, 2006 My Karma ran over my Dogma. Sorry, I know I'm a nerd, I just had to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I have heard it said that karma is like a natural law... and it is very tied to reincarnation. It's just the way it is... no one, no god, ordains it. However, you can affect the life you are born into next by accumulating good karma in this life. So, if karma is viewed this way, the notion that because good people have shit happen and vice versa proves karma wrong isn't accurate. Who you are in this life has nothing to do with who you were in the last life... except that your tendency to disease or being born rich or poor all have to do with the bad or good karma you accumulated or negated in your past life. I long for it too... but I can't believe in reincarnation, either... it's still bogus to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 I long for it too... but I can't believe in reincarnation, either... it's still bogus to me. yeah, I agree, I've never really cared for reincarnation either...In a way, the belief is even LESS testible then the existance of a personal god. Plus, it just seems absurd to say I have past lives but I can't remember them. If I have no memory of them how exactly am I conected to them? A soul? But if a soul is the essence of my being, but aperently carries no memories, then what exactly defines who I am if not my memories? Layer upon layer of contradiction...waaaaay to much like christian apolgetics for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-COG Posted May 11, 2006 Share Posted May 11, 2006 The problem I've always had with karma is that it leads you to think people get what they deserve, which doesn't happen in real life. Bad things happen to good people, good things happen to bad people. To me, karma would mean all those who died in the holocaust had it coming to them because of something they did, or if a person was born crippled or came down with a deadly disease that means that they did something terrible before in this or another life. And if someone was healthy and wealthy, with good luck all the time, it would mean they were perfect and loving. Bleh. People desire justice, which is where ideas like karma are developed from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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