Hi, I'm new + my antimony

[pandora]

Hi all-- I am a pharmacy student in Indianapolis, Indiana. I am also a religious studies major. Most of you on here are excellent writers, please forgive me as my talent is science, not writing.

 

I was raised Catholic. Was evangelized by my middle school and high school friends, so I became a Protestant. I then went to college, and took religion, philosophy, and political science classes to make my somewhat tedious major more interesting.

 

I should say that my parents were very liberal, my father being an agnostic and my mother just a plain spiritualist, but she was raised Catholic and thought that would be a good/easy way to instill some values. LOL They never hindered any quest for god I chose to go on as a child or teenager, even when I was in some pretty wacky fundie churches. I was never into the whole "right belief" idea, so I naturally was a skeptic and a doubting Thomas. Even though I was a pretty involved and devoted Christian, I hated it when Christians were intolerant of other religions or other people. Evangelism wasn't something I was comfortable with, even though I made a few attempts at it myself when I was in high school. It isn't that I didn't think that Jesus was the only way, it is just that I didn't like how people went about evangelizing. Actually, more like proselytizing. It was such a guilt trip and mind game... I never won any converts, but I did meet my current husband at a Billy Graham Crusade. We were both evangelism counselers. (Neither of us are Christians now... funny, huh? )

 

So, these classes in college made me question Christianity more deeply-- Classes like The History of Christianity, Heresy, Biblical Criticism, The Historical Jesus, and world religion classes. My university is secular, so the teaching was pretty liberal and open minded. I began to realize the shaky past of Christianity and became convinced that if the Bible could not be trusted 100%, then Christianity's claims for salvation are a bad guess at best. But this alone did not convince it was entirely untrue.

 

I was involved with my now-husband in a group called Campus Crusade for Christ. My husband was a bio major, so both of us were well versed in and believers in evolution. This is when our problems began. People in this group would not allow us leadership positions because of this, and they also tried to convert us into card carrying 6-day young earth Creationists. We also didn't like how they preyed on lonely freshman and their weird ideas about sex and dating. Needless to say, we got out of that group, but still hopeful about Christianity, we remained active in the Independent Christian Church (a denomination prevalent in the Midwest... not to be confused with the Disciples of Christ, a more mainline denom). We knew by this point we wanted to get married, so we approached a pastor for pre marital counseling. Besides the fact they wanted us to sign a contract of sorts that we hadn't and wouldn't have premarital sex, they did lots of other things that ticked us off. Since I was baptized Catholic, they wouldn't marry us unless I renounced that and got immersed.

When my husband led a discussion for middle schoolers on baptism, he merely mentioned that other churches view it differently and why with scriptural references. He was quickly removed from a position of leadership with the youth of the church. We stopped going there.

 

Next, we started to think that perhaps a mainline denomination would suit us better. We thought ourselves to be more like liberal Methodists or Episcopalians than conservative protestants, so we sought out churches in our area that we thought might fit. Since it is Indiana, we couldn't find one that was liberal enough for us. LOL It is very conservative and religious around here.

 

My husband, still holding firm to his faith, continued to search in Christian churches. He felt a lot of guilt for leaving what he grew up with anyway. Me, on the other hand, started to explore Unitarian churches. I liked them a lot, and I still do... but more on that in a bit. My husband and I got married in a gorgeous methodist church in downtown Indianapolis that did not require membership or other such retarded things to get married there. They made us pay, but that was ok. We needed a "church wedding" to satiate his parents and family.

 

I then made my official break from Christianity. My mother was thrilled to hear of my de-conversion, but unfortunately my father was not around to tell (he passed when I was 13). I don't really remember how or when I told everyone, but I do remember the first time I said out loud "I am not a Christian." It felt so WONDERFUL. I admit I spent a couple years before the admission in guilt and inner turmoil, but once I was ready to admit it, it was the most satisfying thing I could have done. Still believing in God, I went to Unitarian churches.

 

AFter a while, after more reading and thinking, I decided that Unitarianism was a little too foofy for me, even though I liked the general way they went about things. I just didn't *know* there was a God, and I didn't want to pretend that I did. Agnosticism became my choice and it still is. Some days I feel like there is a god (like during finals week LOL), and others science reminds me that it is completely possible there isn't a god... at least, not a personified god as most religions see it. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if there is a god, it doesn't concern me at this point because I don't think that this god would want us to make an imaginary friend out of him/her. This god doesn't make the nature of its existence known, so I am guessing that this god doesn't care if we recognize or worship it. The question of whether god exists is really not applicable in my opinion. I am guessing this god would rather we learn our lessons on earth and be the best we can be, as that is the only true way to worship.

 

Today, my main metaphysical struggle involves the concept of a soul, the nature of the mind and human psychology, and if there is an afterlife or not. I am still mainly a agnostic in these issues as well. Some mystical experiences I have had during meditation (with the help of a few chemicals) are intriguing, but I know from neuroscience that these can be explained through the parts of the brain that are activated during this kind of meditation.

 

I didn't leave Christianity because Christians were hypocrites, because I was treated badly at times, or because of the narrow-mindedness of many Christians, but I left because it doesn't make sense. In short, blood atonement isn't an idea that translates easily into modern thought. The idea that God cares what our fallible and limited minds believe to be true is also laughable. It is also very obvious to me that the Bible is entirely human in origin, and the sometime noble and grand ideas that arise from it are not divine in origin. The nobility that is found in the bible is simply humanity at its best. I don't think any religion can have it right if there is something to have right, so I reject all other religions as well. I still study religion because it gives me new insight into life.

 

Well, that's my journey in a nutshell. In case you're wondering, my husband is not really an orthodox Christian anymore, but he is more in the stage where you look for SOME form of Christianity to make sense (for example, he has tried a few Quakers meetings lately). He was raised in a more rigid upbringing, so he has many more guilt and fear issues to deal with before officially making the break. He wants to be intellectually honest with himself, so I think that in time, he will make the brave step as well.

 

I look forward to joining discussions in this forum. It is good to know that there are lots of us out there. Most people who leave Christianity do so because of hypocrisy and the like, but I notice the great majority of you on here are different.

[Guest JP1283]

Pandora,

 

Thanks for posting your antimony! Welcome to the site! You'll love it here.

 

JP

[pitchu]

Welcome, Pandora.

 

You seem like a purty durn good writer to me!

 

I like your story. It's much more fun to read than the gut-wrenching ones, but, unfortunately, it's also much rarer. Just glad all your vital organs are still intact and everything.

 

I think you'll have as good a time hanging around us as we obviously will with you. Ask hubby to look in every now and then, maybe?

 

Put your feet up. Have a brownie.

[pandora]

Mmm... brownies. Thanks for the warm welcome!

[pitchu]

You're welcome, Pandora.

 

Love the avatar.

 

You'll get many more warm welcomes from those who aren't nutcases like me, still up at 3:40 a.m.

[pandora]

You're welcome, Pandora.

 

Love the avatar.

 

You'll get many more warm welcomes from those who aren't nutcases like me, still up at 3:40 a.m.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hee hee hee... nighttime is the best time of day! You will find me on here at this time a lot as well. We nightowl are CRAZY people, aren't we!?!?

 

I love the smilies on this site.

[Purple Rhino]

Welcome pandora,

 

I'm new here also and have found the people here fun and insightful.

I hope you enjoy your time here as much as I have.

 

PR

[Japedo]

The idea that God cares what our fallible and limited minds believe to be true is also laughable.

 

Welcome Pandora,

 

This is it in a nutshell for me as well. While major atrocities by men are supposedly over looked (forgiven) , a simple disbelief can land your butt in eternal damnation.

 

Thanks for you Anti-T, and welcome to the site! IMO, I think you're a very articulate writer.

[♦ nivek ♦]

pandora..

 

Do feel welcome here at ExC and Dave's House..

 

Wide variety of folks who have stepped out of the comfortable paddock the flock is kept in, marched out on their own.

 

I see ExC as a good place to anchor to, not so much a replacement for *church*, but more like an old school dry goods store with a pot bellied stove, barrel of pickles and someones opinion being tossed out and discussed daily..

 

Pull up a seat, place is one of the best on.ass, on.line places you can begin your journey to whereever you choose to go...

 

n

[Lens]

Welcome!

 

Enjoyed reading your anti-t, particularly about the Campus Crusade for Christ. Interesting.

 

Lindsay

[Lanakila]

Welcome Pandora. This is a cool place and you are right most of the folks here left Christianity for intellectual reasons. Those other reasons are emotional, and those type ex's often go back. But the truth is its hard to re-believe what you know intellectually can't be true.

[Thurisaz]

Welcome Pandora, greetings from Germany. Make yourself comfortable... and keep your hands off that box.

[Loren]

Welcome, Pandora!

You're pretty darned articulate yourself! Your general path echoes many of us here in that while the history and present behavior of some Christians may be abominable, it wasn't the reason we left. Many of us made a decision to deepen our Christian walk by increased study or to forthrightly address our doubts and so lay them to rest for our own good, Christian satisfaction, only to learn far more of why we should renounce Christianity than of why it's right and true. Quite often, we were propelled to do our own study by the inadequate, incompetent or downright obstructive response of the damned clergy to whom we took our problems. All too frequently, the damned preachers and "scholars" were as useful to us honest Christian seekers after truth as sugar is to a gasoline engine.

 

So we went and did our own research and found all sorts of nasty crap about our religion! No wonder the damned preachers didn't want us to do any of our own thinking, let alone unsupervised study.

 

For many of us, Christianity fell when we saw it fail miserably in the ethical, spiritual, historical and doctrinal areas. Contemporary Christians who behave badly weren't the reason we left; they were just the nuts sprinkled on top of the cake.

[LloydDobler]

I didn't leave Christianity because Christians were hypocrites, because I was treated badly at times, or because of the narrow-mindedness of many Christians, but I left because it doesn't make sense.     In short, blood atonement isn't an idea that translates easily into modern thought.  The idea that God cares what our fallible and limited minds believe to be true is also laughable. It is also very obvious to me that the Bible is entirely human in origin, and the sometime noble and grand ideas that arise from it are not divine in origin. The nobility that is found in the bible is simply humanity at its best. I don't think any religion can have it right if there is something to have right, so I reject all other religions as well.  I still study religion because it gives me new insight into life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Excellent paragraph. I agree completely. Welcome. You speak humbly of your writing skills but hey your point comes across perfectly and concisely.

[Ouroboros]

Pandora,

 

A warm and heartful welcome to you, to our "church" of freethinkers.

 

Or to the "dos equis", that I like to call it. (like the beer)

 

2 x = xx = x-xian = ex-christian (darn I'm a geek ain't I )

 

If someone needed it to be spelled out.

[-Demona-]

Welcome to Ex-C, Pandora.

[pandora]

Heh... thanks all of you for complementing my writing... at least I got what I was thinking across ok. I guess I have gotten better at it from all those lib arts classes, but science is still much easier for me! LOL

 

HanSolo-- you are definitely a geek. But I don't think anyone on here isn't one, so I feel strangely comforted by your fellow geekiness.

[pandora]

Welcome, Pandora!

You're pretty darned articulate yourself! Your general path echoes many of us here in that while the history and present behavior of some Christians may be abominable, it wasn't the reason we left. Many of us made a decision to deepen our Christian walk by increased study or to forthrightly address our doubts and so lay them to rest for our own good, Christian satisfaction, only to learn far more of why we should renounce Christianity than of why it's right and true. Quite often, we were propelled to do our own study by the inadequate, incompetent or downright obstructive response of the damned clergy to whom we took our problems. All too frequently, the damned preachers and "scholars" were as useful to us honest Christian seekers after truth as sugar is to a gasoline engine.

 

So we went and did our own research and found all sorts of nasty crap about our religion! No wonder the damned preachers didn't want us to do any of our own thinking, let alone unsupervised study.

 

For many of us, Christianity fell when we saw it fail miserably in the ethical, spiritual, historical and doctrinal areas. Contemporary Christians who behave badly weren't the reason we left; they were just the nuts sprinkled on top of the cake.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You know, I often wonder how the liberal pastors in mainline churches manage to stay true to themselves. I have had a few admit that they weren't anything close to orthodox Christian, yet continued to run their church as if they were. Are they afraid of losing their job? Afraid of throwing away a life's work? Feel like more good is done by supporting the community? I just don't get it....

[Ouroboros]

Heh... thanks all of you for complementing my writing... at least I got what I was thinking across ok.  I guess I have gotten better at it from all those lib arts classes, but science is still much easier for me!  LOL

 

HanSolo-- you are definitely a geek.  But I don't think anyone on here isn't one, so I feel strangely comforted by your fellow geekiness.

 

And you can see on my spelling and grammar that I'm a worse writer

than anyone here. So wilkom tu thee clubb!.

[Guest jdrobins2000]

Hee hee hee... nighttime is the best time of day!  You will find me on here at this time a lot as well. We nightowl are CRAZY people, aren't we!?!?

 

I love the smilies on this site.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ha ha! What is it about this site that keeps us up so late? I don't know, but sometimes I just can't resist. I love it though!

 

Welcome pandora! Excellent anti-testimony. I definitely identify with a lot of it.

 

I didn't leave Christianity because Christians were hypocrites, because I was treated badly at times, or because of the narrow-mindedness of many Christians, but I left because it doesn't make sense.

I too left for intellectual reasons, like asking myself "What if the Christian God were a figment of my imagination?" and realizing that would explain what I see so much better than if he were real. But, the other issues definitely prodded me to investigate.

 

Many of us made a decision to deepen our Christian walk by increased study or to forthrightly address our doubts and so lay them to rest for our own good, Christian satisfaction, only to learn far more of why we should renounce Christianity than of why it's right and true. Quite often, we were propelled to do our own study by the inadequate, incompetent or downright obstructive response of the damned clergy to whom we took our problems.

Well said Loren! My Christian leaders actually encouraged my questioning, though ultimately were unable to answer my questions and objections. They were fine with not having the answers, and I wasn't.

 

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that if there is a god, it doesn't concern me at this point because I don't think that this god would want us to make an imaginary friend out of him/her. This god doesn't make the nature of its existence known, so I am guessing that this god doesn't care if we recognize or worship it. The question of whether god exists is really not applicable in my opinion.

Yeah, that's pretty much right where I am at. Always nice to meet people in the same boat.

 

Today, my main metaphysical struggle involves the concept of a soul, the nature of the mind and human psychology, and if there is an afterlife or not.

Not sure if there is a thread on these yet, but if so feel free to add to it, and if not by all means start a new one. I'd love to talk about it and hear your thoughts. Did a little exploration of Neurophilosophy recently during and as a result of my deconversion. But, that's a separate thread.

 

See ya around.

[DaveL]

Hi Pandora,

 

Welcome to Ex-C. Hope you enjoy yourself, and look forward

to seeing more of you on the posts.