On The Origins

[jasonwhatever]

In the Bible and commonly accepted Christian teachings, when man was in the Garden of Eden, all was paradise and perfect. There was no death, no disease, no malady of any form. It was how God originally intended. Well, then if man did not evolve, and God did create Adam and Eve as the first humans six thousand years ago as most Christians believe, then why is there evidence that creation has been degenerating and dinosaurs and other creatures have been dying for much much longer?

 

For, remember that Adam was the head of Eve, and Eve was the head of creation; in fact her name means that she was the "mother of all living," in a sense, just as New Jerusalem is called "the mother of all living" today in a place in an epistle: "New Jerusalem above is free and is the mother of us all." She represents the Church, as Christ is the New Adam, and they are spiritually married as the first Adam and Eve were physically married, the rib of Adam being used in Eve, "and they twain shall be one flesh."

 

My understanding was always that when Adam and Eve fell, all of creation was corrupted by that one sin. For as Eve, the mother of creation (in a very real sense), fell, all of creation was brought into bondage to death. Thus, all people and animals die. The stars grow dimmer over time, and faint into darkness, etc. The planets and earth erode.

 

Yet, there is such overriding scientific evidence that indicates that dinosaurs and animals had been dying for millions of years. It is irrefutable. The stars have been dying out for billions of years. Etc. Now if man has only been on earth for thousands of years, how can this be? It seems, then, that death and decay had already been going on in creation well before the creation of man. I don't believe for one minute that all the dinosaurs lived around the time of Adam and Eve. It is undisputable that dinosaurs were alive for many many years before man. So, then, there had to have been corruption upon creation before man's creation. Where, then, did that come from if the corruption of creation came as a result of the fall of man?

 

I was thinking that maybe corruption happened, and death with it, when the angels that sinned fell away. There are Scriptures which seem to indicate that the angels were created at dawn, before the physical creation. And perhaps Eden was transplanted from earth to heaven after the fall of man?

[jasonwhatever]

Jesus Said "the devil sinned from the beginning." I think that there was a sin before the sin of man.

I think that the physical creation was corrupted when Lucifer and the angels sinned. Then God created man upon the earth to replenish the ranks of angels that had been emptied when they fell, with the men to be born and saved to become as the angels. And Jesus taught that those saved would be "as the angels in heaven." As rebellion and the fall spiritually came by Lucifer first, and thus the fall of the physical creation, so the repair of the breach and the rise again comes through Christ. Rebellion by Lucifer who is the "father of lies" and who "sinned from the beginning." But Jesus Christ came to "destroy the works of the devil," and to free creation from its groanings because of the bondage it has been brought under through sin. Rebellion by Lucifer, but Obedience by Christ. A fall through Lucifer, but a rising again by Christ. Death by sin, life by Righteousness.

 

The devil wanted man to fall away in the Garden so that, through sin, he could, in effect, have possession of the earth. It's like a spiritual contract. If sin dwells somewhere, there God does not dwell there. Adam and Eve, thus, forfeited their dominion over creation, which God had given them originally, as God Said for man to rule over the creation, giving them dominion over them. Lucifer was jealous, and so he sought to make man fall even as he himself fell.

 

This would make sense also why satan and the devils (called death in The Scriptures) will be the last enemies to be defeated: because they were the first to fall and thereby brought death upon creation. When, lastly, they are cast into the lake of fire, then creation will be brought out of its corruption, and all things will be restored new before the fall of even the angels, and all things will be made new. Death and hell will be gone.

 

This makes such perfect sense. No other religion can explain the meanings of creation, death, etc as Christianity does. As much as I'd like to think that Christianity is not true, just these things and the perfect sense of it and the explanation of the meaning of life that it gives is so perfect and comprehensive that it makes me think without doubt that Christianity has to be true. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I started this out by thinking about it myself, trying to find doubt about Scriptures, but it honestly only confirmed to me that The Scriptures are true.

[Astreja]

I don't buy it. There is no need to clutter up the world with mythological speculation on "why" death exists. No need to pin the blame on invisible devils. Just accept what is, and change the things that you have the ability and desire to change. It really is that simple.

 

Stuff decays and dies, and sometimes gets recycled as new life. That's good enough for me.

[HuaiDan]

Exactly, Astr. Sin and evil are merely human contructs to describe things that cause pain, suffering, or impede mankind's survivability and/or fortune. In a nutshell.

To quote Jane's Addiction, "Ain't no wrong now, ain't no right. Only pleasure and pain."

Right, wrong, evil, corrupt, all describe things insofar as those things are relevent to mankind, unless one chooses to include such phenomena as a lion killing a zebra so that's the lion's family may live under the category of evil (I, personally, would not.) They are concepts created by mankind that have shown useful in maintaining order in a functional society.

Organisms dying isn't an evil, it's a necessity. A generational succession strategy allows for environmental adaptations and diversity spanning generations. An organism not programmed to die within a specific timeframe can not adapt itself to profound environmental change, and past generations would compete for resources against succeeding generations. Generations being replaced, then dying, or dying, then being replaced, allows for faster adaptation. Death itself is not evil.

[Ryan]

This makes such perfect sense. No other religion can explain the meanings of creation, death, etc as Christianity does. As much as I'd like to think that Christianity is not true, just these things and the perfect sense of it and the explanation of the meaning of life that it gives is so perfect and comprehensive that it makes me think without doubt that Christianity has to be true. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade. I started this out by thinking about it myself, trying to find doubt about Scriptures, but it honestly only confirmed to me that The Scriptures are true.

 

I totally know what you mean. All the invisible and supernatural beings doing all the things outside of the known physical universe taken on faith. I mean, come on, billions of people coming from the genetic make-up of two people. That just screams good sense. Death of billions of people all because the first two humans had an afternoon snack? My faith is reaffirmed! You have convinced me of the veracity of the Bible. Thank you Jason for your sage teachings. Now please father my love child. We must ensure that such quality genes endure to the next generation. You shall teach him your ways and he shall grow to be as wise as you. Jesus be praised.