Red_Pyramid Posted May 15, 2006 Share Posted May 15, 2006 1 - resources on all the tyrannies and atrocities caused by christianity throughout history... 2 - resources on the lack of evidence of a historical jesus, and/or the historical jesus not being the jesus of the bible 3 - resources on the pagan origins of christinaity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loves_learning Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm curious...why do you want these sources from others? What is your purpose for using them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 1 - resources on all the tyrannies and atrocities caused by christianity throughout history... http://dim.com/~randl/tinq.htm 2 - resources on the lack of evidence of a historical jesus, and/or the historical jesus not being the jesus of the bible Jeezus Never Existed 3 - resources on the pagan origins of christinaity... Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Pyramid Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 I'm curious...why do you want these sources from others? What is your purpose for using them? I thinks thats pretty self evident... Why do you ask anyway??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Pyramid Posted May 16, 2006 Author Share Posted May 16, 2006 1 - resources on all the tyrannies and atrocities caused by christianity throughout history... http://dim.com/~randl/tinq.htm 2 - resources on the lack of evidence of a historical jesus, and/or the historical jesus not being the jesus of the bible Jeezus Never Existed 3 - resources on the pagan origins of christinaity... Pagan Origins of the Christ Myth Perfect, thank you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loves_learning Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 I'm curious...why do you want these sources from others? What is your purpose for using them? I thinks thats pretty self evident... Why do you ask anyway??? Because I looked up your profile and you're kind of young...probably in college or heading in that direction. My guess is that you're only interested in these things for use as weaponry in debates rather than being truly curious about the history of religions. While I don't ascribe to any traditions, I don't think that approach is helpful/positive when dealing with xns. People all throughout history have done horrific things to one another in the name of different causes...and though religion is definetly one of them, it isn't the only one. It is always good to know as much as possible about history rather than cherry pick stuff that is only going to be useful in an argument...until that is, someone knows more than you do and because you've only studied a selective and slanted version of history, you're fucked. I also asked because it isn't exactly difficult to find that kind of information...and was wondering why you couldn't find it for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Pyramid Posted May 18, 2006 Author Share Posted May 18, 2006 I'm curious...why do you want these sources from others? What is your purpose for using them? I thinks thats pretty self evident... Why do you ask anyway??? Because I looked up your profile and you're kind of young...probably in college or heading in that direction. My guess is that you're only interested in these things for use as weaponry in debates rather than being truly curious about the history of religions. While I don't ascribe to any traditions, I don't think that approach is helpful/positive when dealing with xns. People all throughout history have done horrific things to one another in the name of different causes...and though religion is definetly one of them, it isn't the only one. It is always good to know as much as possible about history rather than cherry pick stuff that is only going to be useful in an argument...until that is, someone knows more than you do and because you've only studied a selective and slanted version of history, you're fucked. I also asked because it isn't exactly difficult to find that kind of information...and was wondering why you couldn't find it for yourself. So what I'm biased in my hate torawds christianity, whats the big deal, I don't intentially seek and try and hurt people with it, just one up them in arguments... And I've googled it numerous times all I get is crap or nothing at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loves_learning Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 Try a library...they're these amazing places with thousands of books! If you're in college...then you'll have access to the best of them. Use a search engine in a library rather than google. When you're biased with hate, you're not going to be able to win any arguments. You'll end up looking like O'Reilly or Hannity. I find it hard to believe that you only want to one up someone in an argument with your previous admission. Anyway, there really isn't a point sitting and arguing sematics and historical minutae with someone who doesn't want to listen to you. Having an intellectually honest reason why you don't want to be a Christian and being able to articulate it respectfully and skillfully will get you much further. Oh yea... I forgot to mention that the reason you come up with mostly crap on google is because many/most of the stuff out there on the internet regarding what you're looking for IS CRAP. Start with this book: Understanding the Bible. It is a textbook for college (NOT a christian college). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 As will having info to back it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loves_learning Posted May 19, 2006 Share Posted May 19, 2006 As will having info to back it up... Yea, but you have to know as much of the story as possible rather than just yelling at someone "I hate Christians because Christians killed people in the crusades!" or something equally stupid. It doesn't sound to me like RP wants to know anything other than what to say back at someone he doesn' t like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Pyramid Posted May 22, 2006 Author Share Posted May 22, 2006 Try a library...they're these amazing places with thousands of books! If you're in college...then you'll have access to the best of them. Use a search engine in a library rather than google. When you're biased with hate, you're not going to be able to win any arguments. You'll end up looking like O'Reilly or Hannity. I find it hard to believe that you only want to one up someone in an argument with your previous admission. Anyway, there really isn't a point sitting and arguing sematics and historical minutae with someone who doesn't want to listen to you. Having an intellectually honest reason why you don't want to be a Christian and being able to articulate it respectfully and skillfully will get you much further. Oh yea... I forgot to mention that the reason you come up with mostly crap on google is because many/most of the stuff out there on the internet regarding what you're looking for IS CRAP. Start with this book: Understanding the Bible. It is a textbook for college (NOT a christian college). Oh hur hur, wow I never heard of these libraries, hur hur... Did it, the only thing they have at the library is pro religious books, period... The main thing is I just want to be able to respond to people who try and prosletyze me, and just in case the argument got to history and so forth I wanted to be able to respond to that. In extreme cases I like to be dispictably flippant, but like I said for the most part I just want to be able to properly respond in the formentioned case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Did it, the only thing they have at the library is pro religious books, period... The main thing is I just want to be able to respond to people who try and prosletyze me, and just in case the argument got to history and so forth I wanted to be able to respond to that. In extreme cases I like to be dispictably flippant, but like I said for the most part I just want to be able to properly respond in the formentioned case... How hard have you looked in the library? I don't know where you live, but I live in Arkansas, smack in the middle of the bible belt, and my local library carries books by liberal scholars and non-christian authors...not a lot, but if you know where to look they can be found. It really is a good idea to know some things about history, I would personally look more at biblical contradictions.... the skeptics bible ( google it ) is a good place to start, but the person who wrote it wasn't exactly a biblical scholar, so a lot of the things he calls out as errors, aren't actually. Still there are some good things to be found in it. Something else I would recomend would be "the gnostic gosples" by Elane Pagles...in fact anything by her would be worth reading. Her writting is fairly unbiasaed, but the works are pretty hard reads if you've never tackled a college level work, on history or biblcal scholarship, but they have a lot of good information about early christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loves_learning Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I have to give a big "AMEN" to Kurio and Elaine Pagels. She is a very well renowned scholar at Princeton, but has several books written for the educated layperson. I love "The Gnostic Gospels"...but "Adam, Eve, and the Serpent" has to be my favorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I agree on Pagels. I would also recommend John Dominic Crossan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loves_learning Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 me too! And Karen King...though that's straight up scholarly stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. XC Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I have been collecting a few such links and storing them in my profile under "About Me." I have been meaning to go though these links and rank them for accuracy, bias, and a professional presentation (some of which the above links lack), but I have found all of these serve as a good launching pad to research the subject elsewhere, such as in books. These days, I am not that interested in buying books about Christianity because I have already left and am fairly isolated from Christians. There is a little bit of intellectual interest left in this subject, but there are more important things on my list. Anyway, like the others said, the more familiar you are with Christianity, the better. If you discuss the matter to them in non-defensive manor and try to get them to think about it (can be hard sometimes), you may successfully plant the seeds of doubt and there will be less Christians to worry about later. Sometimes, truth can be contagious; although inconvenient truths take longer to propagate. For whatever it is worth, here they are: http://www.agiweb.org/news/evolution/index.html http://www.bidstrup.com/bible.htm http://www.losingmyreligion.com/essays/brad/pagangods.htm http://home.att.net/~fiddlerzvi/j4j_no.html http://home.inu.net/skeptic/obsay.htm http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/index.htm http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/central.html http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/ http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html If people would like to comment on the accuracy, bias, and other imperfections on these links, and to suggest better ones, I am willing to take that advice under consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Pyramid Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Did it, the only thing they have at the library is pro religious books, period... The main thing is I just want to be able to respond to people who try and prosletyze me, and just in case the argument got to history and so forth I wanted to be able to respond to that. In extreme cases I like to be dispictably flippant, but like I said for the most part I just want to be able to properly respond in the formentioned case... How hard have you looked in the library? I don't know where you live, but I live in Arkansas, smack in the middle of the bible belt, and my local library carries books by liberal scholars and non-christian authors...not a lot, but if you know where to look they can be found. It really is a good idea to know some things about history, I would personally look more at biblical contradictions.... the skeptics bible ( google it ) is a good place to start, but the person who wrote it wasn't exactly a biblical scholar, so a lot of the things he calls out as errors, aren't actually. Still there are some good things to be found in it. Something else I would recomend would be "the gnostic gosples" by Elane Pagles...in fact anything by her would be worth reading. Her writting is fairly unbiasaed, but the works are pretty hard reads if you've never tackled a college level work, on history or biblcal scholarship, but they have a lot of good information about early christianity. No, I've got enough books on the flaws and evils of the bible, and thanks to to a big drain on my wallet now have enough books on the historical jesus and the pagan origins... All I really nedded was history and stuff, which is taken care of now... I was hoping for something free, but I realize knowledge is never free... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts