The Soul

[kevin]

Seriously though, this has got me somewhat puzzled since I believe the "soul" encapsulates more than just a religious connection. It has more to do with being human, and all that is mysterious in our lives. Although I would class myself as without any religion, this whole issue with the soul has left me confused. I would accept that it was this confusion, that originally lead me to religion. I would also accept that it would be this type of confusion that might take me back. Your thoughts would be appreciated (C or Ex-C alike) to help clear the haze.

 

Kevin:

[Antlerman]

Well, there's been an involved disussion of this ranging from the scientific to the philosophical going on right now in the science section: (a bit of reading to catch up on)

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=8941

[kevin]

Sorry, I should have looked. I getting my coat on and going over there now...

[Fweethawt]

After reading hundreds, if not thousands of opinions/beliefs on what the "soul" is, I've come to my own personal conclusion that this very concept of "soul" is simply an illusive, never-attained pinnacle in our minds due to the fact that the very molecules/atoms that make up our mental facilities is in a constant state of change.

 

If you ask me to explain that, I shall cry.

 

It's just the only honest conclusion that I could come to.

[kevin]

My own definition: Something which expresses deep physical/emotional feelings when words are not enough.

[EdwardAbbey]

Seriously though, this has got me somewhat puzzled since I believe the "soul" encapsulates more than just a religious connection. It has more to do with being human, and all that is mysterious in our lives. Although I would class myself as without any religion, this whole issue with the soul has left me confused. I would accept that it was this confusion, that originally lead me to religion. I would also accept that it would be this type of confusion that might take me back. Your thoughts would be appreciated (C or Ex-C alike) to help clear the haze.

 

Kevin:

 

 

Is the Soul A Physical Organ?

If the soul is a physical organ, then where is such a thing located in the human body?

If it is not a physical organ but is something invisible, does it float/drift around within the human body from one location to another?

 

Therefore the only rational conclusion I can come to is there is no scientific evidence for the soul, therefore, no such thing exists. We have a body and brain which is part of the human physical makeup and that is as far as it goes.

 

The soul is just another one of those myths you can add to the list of religious concepts that are purely imaginary and subjective. It can also just be used as a figure of speech in a conversation like God is used in conversations. i.e., oh my God; thank God; oh my soul, he/she has a lot of soul; I think you get the drift.

[Skankboy]

I've got a question for those who believe in the soul: What does it do?

 

It's just that it seems to me that if you don't believe in an afterlife, there's no role for the soul to actually play in our existence...

[Ouroboros]

Good question Skankboy.

 

No one can really give an answer to what the "soul" actually does.

 

It's not memory, because we have seen in biology that it's taken care of in the brain.

 

And so is our ability to think abstraction, our emotions, our sense of moral and the ability to follow moral ideas, all has been found in the brain. So what is left?

[monsterfeets]

Perhaps the soul is merely just the sense of self we have. Ofcourse that can be taken care of by the brain too, I believe. So, hmm. I see it this way, "who I am" is kind of an amalgamation of all my memories and experiences. This can change as I add more and forget things. But when I die I will no longer be adding or forgetting. My story is through and the "book" is over. But is it written/contained somewhere? Maybe a 'soul' is that person recorded in some way onto the universe or collective unconcious? I am not sure, I've always seen it like one big library. "We" don't exist inside our first person perspective anymore after we die, we can no longer live 'inside' our story. But perhaps someone else (or 'us' in another life), can read the story and experience it in that way. But not directly any more. And not in a way that you can 'edit' it. Kind of like having a past life memory, it's not you but yet it somehow belongs to you.

 

But this is all metaphorical, obviously I don't believe my soul is literally a library. It's actually an enormous haunted house with no doors that is strangely reminiscent of a furniture store.

 

 

Okay these are all just crazy ideas. I have a lot of weird dreams about the subject though and they are all delightfully terrifying. Which usually brings me to the conclusion that we're probably better off not knowing at this point in time.

[kevin]

Ask a christian to point to where their soul is on their body and they invariably point to somewhere in the middle of their chest, near their heart. Part of the mystery that the heart and soul are somehow linked I suppose. Maybe there's a duplex in there with the Holy Spirit as it's neighbor?

 

Kevin:

[Mythra]

Soul: The antiquated concept that there is an eternal, wispy essence which is temporarily housed in a prison called a body. Brought to you by the same fine folks that considered the heart the center of intelligence, the bowels the center of emotions, and the kidneys the center of moral impulses and virtues.

 

From article VII (g) pg. 1141 Mythrapedia.

[Guest Unity]

Soul is beyond the mind so it can't be described so one either believes it or not. I say it is up to the individual. Let men and women who are inspired do something for humanity while anticipating something beyond it to use the word soul to describe their blissful experience. This spirituality within comes from no human source and leads to no human end, but when complied with gives a good feeling. If people use soul to explain what they comply with or do what it suggest then so be it. Soul is an explanation for a non material experience to gain a momentum and an awareness that unites us to the spirit in all things.

 

There is no reason to be against soul unless it is used to manipulate people because soul is beyond reason.

 

Mysticism

[Guest Extian]

I have always thought of the soul as something we acheive, not something we are given. Or that it can be improved upon as we live our lives. That it works in symbiosis with our brain, storing everything that makes up "me" for transferance into my body in the afterlife.

 

I also believe that there is more to "life" or "reality" than what we can see in our present form. That the life that makes up everything we know now is simply a shroud to be moved aside one day. I don't need sientific evidence of something to believe it exists. Mainly because science itself is imperfect and unreliable until we know absolutely everything.

 

The knowledge the human race has acheived to this point is nothing when put into perspective by comparing it to all the knowledge that is yet to be attained...

 

But all that is probably a bit too wishy-washy for most people to accept.

[Guest JohnFensworth]

"Soul" is a metaphor for your brain, your personality, what you determine as morality, etc. There is not any mystical force or energy that runs everything in your body. It all breaks down to science. You are a big walking chemical reaction, but there's no reason to use magic as an explanation just because we don't yet have the means of fully understanding how it works.

[Ouroboros]

Several first time posters in this thread. Welcome to you all.

 

What's curiously evident is that no one have one definition or understanding of what soul is or what it consists off.

 

Does the soul contain the emotions? No, according to science.

 

Does the soul define life? No, unless plants have a soul too.

 

Does the soul control the free will? Well, maybe that's where it gets tricky. Personally I think our decisions (even the ones we believe to be out of free will) are based on calculated reasons. Like, I'll take a sip of water, because I have a bottle of water, and I'm thirsty and one part of my brain fired of a signal that I needed water. Not because I freely made a choice, but my mind figured out, through cost/benefits calculations that I needed/wanted something. In the end, I believe, all our actions are based on these "calculations". So then what is soul?

[Guest Extian]

Perhaps my soul is not the motivation to get a drink of water because I am thirsty and I have water close by, but the motivation to drink when I am not thirsty and there is no water nearby?

 

My brain does things automaticly, I know when I lose concentration and my body takes over at doing whatever it is that I happen to be doing at the time. But when I "force" myself to do something (or not to do something as the case may be) that my brain and body tells me I don't need to do (or do need to do), that is me, my soul, making that decision and making my body follow through with it.

[Ouroboros]

Perhaps my soul is not the motivation to get a drink of water because I am thirsty and I have water close by, but the motivation to drink when I am not thirsty and there is no water nearby?

Have you ever done that?

 

If you do right now, you probably will do it because I incited you with the though of doing it.

 

Normally, you can trace back a reason why you do something or want something. And it's explained by natural reasons.

 

My brain does things automaticly, I know when I lose concentration and my body takes over at doing whatever it is that I happen to be doing at the time. But when I "force" myself to do something (or not to do something as the case may be) that my brain and body tells me I don't need to do (or do need to do), that is me, my soul, making that decision and making my body follow through with it.

But its still your mind making that decision. So it's a process in your biological brain. No one acts without the brain. You can remove wants, needs, thoughts, etc by manipulating the brain through surgery, accidents and/or drugs. Does the soul get affected by drugs for instance? Depression for instance will make people make certain decisions, and then with drugs they suddenly want other things. How can that be? Is the brain connected to the metaphysical realm? How?

[Guest Extian]

Unfortunately I cannot answer those questions, although I do believe that if science had progressed enough the answers would be discovered. Time will give a certain answer.

 

What I do know is that every living cell conducts a tiny electric charge. Most of the functions in our body are caused by electricity; the movement of a muscle, a sensation recieved by a nerve on the surface of our skin, a thought in our brain... There seems to be a co-relation between electricity and chemicals throughout our whole body, not just our brain.

 

I have always believed that my soul is something like an electrical field, although infinitely more complicated. Then again the soul could be made from quarks, or even the tiny particles of matter which are even smaller than quarks.

 

If only humanity would stop squabbling and pursue knowledge instead the answer would be found. But until science can prove, for an absolute fact, that there is no such thing as a soul, I will continue to believe that I have one, even though I cannot define what it may be.

 

I think of the brain more as a boundary enforced upon us. A trap if you will, which our soul is directly linked to and is forced to work within the limitations of this confine.

 

I could go another step and say that my soul could be my subconsious. Some part of me that knows everything, yet is powerless to affect the decisions I make during my life here, and that my consious is merely me without all the knowledge my soul is forced to keep from me.

 

Of course then I would be contradicting my earlier post, which brings forth the conclusion that really... I don't know what my soul is at all even though I believe I have one.

 

Nonetheless I have found this discussion enlightening.

[Ouroboros]

It is definitely an interesting discussion.

 

This is how I see it (kind'a), when I look at a computer and the program I'm running. I have hardware, but what is software? Software is the code that's stored in the hardware and processed by the CPU and the other components in the computer. But what is a program? A program that is executed by it's instructions is nothing by a "meta" level of the code it's based from. A program is very much like the soul. If you look at the billions of bits that makes up Windows™, you can not "see" Windows, colors, mouse pointers etc in there, but still it is defined in there. The quarks to DNA is the hardware, the electrical signals are the processing, the result is a meta level of the processed data that we perceieve as the "soul". Really, does the blue bar above this box that says "Fast Reply" really exists? When I click on "Add Reply" button, it will be gone and not exist anymore, not until I click "Fastreply" again.

[Mythra]

So, for you who believe in the soul - is it only homo sapiens which possess one? What criteria do you use to come to this conclusion?

 

Or, do you suppose perhaps that chimps, apes and maybe dogs also have one?

 

What about dolphins?

 

Gerbils? What about Fwee's squirrel? Does he have a soul? Nevermind - he's a cartoon. Sorry Fwee.

 

What about human ancestors? Homo erectus, Homo habilus, Homo ergaster - did they too have souls?

 

The soul. Such a quaint, albeit silly concept.

[RHEMtron]

there's also different applications to having "soul". sometimes it's just an emotional response to something. i hear good music, it makes me want to dance... like in mythra's picture . i hear a good familiar song, i cant help but sing-a-long.

 

does that mean there's a "spiritual" being inside me? no. does it validate religion? no. it's just another name, or way to describe you consciouness and subconsciousness.

 

anyone think of any other examples of how "soul" is applied?

[Mythra]

there's also different applications to having "soul". sometimes it's just an emotional response to something.

 

AHA! so dogs do have souls. After all, it can't just be neurons and electrons that make them wag their tail when you ask em if they want to go for a walk.

[Ouroboros]

Well, I know for certain that shoes have a sole.

[Antlerman]

Soul is beyond the mind so it can't be described so one either believes it or not.

How’s this? Soul is a word that is part of our language that we use to describe concepts of an ethereal nature. The fact that we are using the word would show that is not beyond the mind. God is also a similar type of word, whether one believe it or not. What you are really saying is that the concepts we use that word to embody are what someone chooses to believe or not? That word is used to describe many facets of these human concepts of transcendence.

 

I say it is up to the individual. Let men and women who are inspired do something for humanity while anticipating something beyond it to use the word soul to describe their blissful experience.

What about those who are likewise inspired, yet while not anticipating something beyond but rather operating out of human compassion here and now? I would use that word to describe the essence of the sense of higher values in the human experience that serves the greater community of life, and the value of myself under these principles as an individual.

 

This spirituality within comes from no human source and leads to no human end, but when complied with gives a good feeling.

As you see it in the construct of the mythology you use to relate to the universe. I however do not and find it lacking in vision to assume that it is some outside agent and not us. However I do agree, that when we act upon these principle the result is a higher sense of life – but I would explain that as a natural reaction to our realization of working for the good of others, which in the end benefits the individual – I.

 

If people use soul to explain what they comply with or do what it suggest then so be it. Soul is an explanation for a non material experience to gain a momentum and an awareness that unites us to the spirit in all things.

You view these principles as an external thing to man. I view them as a product of man as a learned behavior passed down to us from past generations through genetics and societal memes. Viewing it as external is also a language construct, a mythology by which we frame our understanding of our place in life and how to relate to it. In the end we say the same things. I just understand though natural causes at the core rather than leaping beyond into mystical language. I use art and music as my language for “my soul” to go "beyond the mind”.