The Hauntings Of A Christian Past

[Johnny Smith]

Greetings –

 

I am a post Christian. I have not completely given up on Christianity, but I am on my way out.

 

I just hung up the phone with my father. Our conversation was very awkward. All of our conversations have been very awkward lately. I find I do not have much to say to him. Likewise, he does not have much to say to me.

 

My Father calls himself a born again Christian. Before he became a fundamentalist Christian, he was heavily involved in Transcendental Meditation and other New Age systems of belief. At the age of forty, he had a “come to Jesus” experience and was the first in my family to embrace all the diversity found in the fringe of Pentecostal/charismatic Christianity. I grew up around glossolalia (speaking in tongues), divine healing, demonology, and end-time prophecy. In fact, my father and his wife at that time traveled around America with an “end-times evangelist.” This preacher was convinced that the President of the United States was a part of a conspiracy to bring about the New World Order. This New World Order was a secret society, used as a tool of Lucifer, to bring about a cashless society where eventually everyone on planet earth would be required to have an electronic chip implant in their foreheads or wrists in order to buy or sell. Those that refused (aka the elite Christians), would suffer a horrible death of beheading by the merciless guillotine.

 

But alas, according to this prophetic guru, those who were “born again” and “accepted Jesus into their hearts” would be spared from having to make the decision to choose the implant or the guillotine. Jesus Christ, the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, would soon rapture his church from this wicked earth. Those who were too rebellious in nature would be left behind to face the wrath of the adversary, and endure the Great Tribulation.

 

As a child, I was only required to spend every other weekend with my father and his band of Christian soothsayers. I loved this time with my father. It was during these times that I learned to love fantasy. Oh, I didn’t know it was make-believe then! I believed every word of it! It scared me to death… yes… but it was only in this fantasy that I felt safe. There were times, though, that this impressionable lad was overcome with the gravity of my perception of human depravity.

 

I remember vividly the day that I walked out of one of the prophecy meetings my father and stepmother were attending. I was about ten years old. The clouds were dark, and lightening was on the horizon. With a sense of foreboding, I walked to the middle of the field and in the rain, lifted my hands and asked Jesus to strike me dead. I did not want to be left behind if for some reason I was not a true Christian. I wanted to be in Heaven, with Jesus and His angels. This earth, filled with the forces of Satan and his minions, was such an unlovely place.

 

My father fed my fantasy. Around that same time, I had a childhood vision of Satan. I was certain that I had seen the face of a demon in my father’s station wagon. When I told my father, he became certain that I had an unusually unique gift of discerning spirits. And so I also saw an angel around that time. The angel stood approximately ten feet tall, with golden hair, and a flowing robe.

 

Several years later, at the age of fourteen, I joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My father believed that Moroni was really a demonic spirit that had entered into my soul. One particularly painful day, my father drove down to my mother’s house, asked to speak with me, and firmly expressed his belief that I was destined for hellfire. Johnny Smith wept.

 

This is only part of the story. I eventually left the Mormon Church, but I did not leave my belief in the supernatural. In fact, it increased with detrimental affects on my mind and emotions.

 

Today my father still calls himself a born again Christian. Nevertheless, he has again embraced many of his former New Age beliefs and is placing a Christian spin on them. It is all the same to me. Whether it is Maharishi Mahesh Yogi (the founder of Transcendental Meditation) or Jesus Christ, he is still looking for a divine being to guide him through this uncomfortable existence.

 

My dad, who “baptized me in the Holy Spirit” and was present when I uttered my first unintelligible word in the act of glossolalia, called me from the Transcendental Mediation center today. The thought might come that I would be happy with his less dogmatic approach to Christianity. Instead, the pain of the past has surfaced with stealth force.

 

Wrestling with your own demons from the past? Please feel free to use this thread to post about your own haunting.

 

Johnny Smith

[pandora]

Thanks for sharing that... my experiences haven't been so horrific. I find it particularly peculiar that you father was a member of the TM movement... I had only read about them in books. Does he believe he can fly?

[Manta]

You've managed to experience and believe a level of christianity, which even christians themselves believe to be insane, and come out of it with your rationale intact. You have earned my respect.

 

Remember, just because you spoke in tounges doesn't mean you're possessed with the Holy spirit. If that were true, you'd also be able to drink poisons and cure the sick with your bare hands (I forget which quote that is).

[Johnny Smith]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I like to think that I have come out of it all with my rationale in tact. However, I would say that, like one that has been truly addicted to any substance, I have to constantly fight with my desire to indulge. I know that the indulgence is not good for me, and yet somehow my mind believes that it is indulging in that very thing that will bring me feelings of contentment and security. And the cycle repeats itself. The last few months I have been in the withdrawal phase.

 

I have pretty much settled the glossolalia (speaking in tongues) dilemma. This perceived supernatural occurance used to be proof, in my mind, of God's existance and his favor with the charismatic stream of Christianity. Therefore, I used to buy in to the notion of backsliding. I could identify myself in the backsliding stage, and yet still believed due to some of these supernatural experiences.

 

Now I am able to logically determine that my perceptions of the supernatural were thus because I wanted them to be so. I placed a supernatural label on very natural phenomenons which can be attributed to the power of the human mind.

 

My father's involvement with TM was very supernaturally oriented. He did indeed claim to have participated in brief periods of levitation as a result of meditation. When he became a born again Christian, these things were of course attributed to demonic spirits. However, even in his Christian state, my dad would state that the feeling before "lift-off" was orgasmic. It does not surprise me, that after nearly twenty-five years as an evangelical Christian, that he is now mixing his former love of TM with his subsequent Christian experiences.

 

Happy Sunday to you all.

 

Johnny Smith

[Thackerie]

. . . I have pretty much settled the glossolalia (speaking in tongues) dilemma. This perceived supernatural occurance used to be proof, in my mind, of God's existance and his favor with the charismatic stream of Christianity. ...

 

Speaking in tongues is no big deal; any one who is not a deaf mute can do it. Just open your mouth and let a string of syllables come out. You'll naturally and automatically add some inflection to it, so it sounds like a language. I used to do this when pentecostal nutcases tried to evangelize to me. Of course, none of them would accept the fact that I, a shameless heathen, was just making it up; to them, it had to be that I was possessed and speaking a demonic language What imbeciles!

[Lycorth]

You've managed to experience and believe a level of christianity, which even christians themselves believe to be insane, and come out of it with your rationale intact. You have earned my respect.

 

Remember, just because you spoke in tounges doesn't mean you're possessed with the Holy spirit. If that were true, you'd also be able to drink poisons and cure the sick with your bare hands (I forget which quote that is).

 

Very true - welcome to the board You got a taste of insanity but came back still with some sanity. No small accomplishment

 

Indeed - there is no Holy Spurt and nothing therefore to posses you. There are other spirits, I believe, but not the one in the Babble.

[Johnny Smith]

Thanks for welcoming me to the board.

 

Varokhar,

 

Is your belief in other non-biblical spirits a faith-based assumption?

 

Just curious.

 

I hope you all are having a good evening.

 

"Johnny Smith"

[Guest]

Remember, just because you spoke in tounges doesn't mean you're possessed with the Holy spirit. If that were true, you'd also be able to drink poisons and cure the sick with your bare hands (I forget which quote that is).

 

Mark 16:17

[Dra_Mucd_Uha]

Welcome to the boards, Johnny. I'm impressed that you were able to come out of the beliefs your father instilled in you, it appears he was very deep in what he believed. I personally am only 16 and left Christianity a few months ago, so my family does not know yet and I really have no desire to tell them. We all come from different situations, and the majority of the time when it comes to leaving Christianity, it's emotional both externally and internally. I wish you well on your search for truth.

 

[Johnny Smith]

I am still working on coming out of the beliefs.

 

I am twenty-six years old, and it has been an unbelievably slow and painful process.

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement. I wish you will on your journey out of the Christian cult.

[Ouroboros]

I have pretty much settled the glossolalia (speaking in tongues) dilemma. This perceived supernatural occurance used to be proof, in my mind, of God's existance and his favor with the charismatic stream of Christianity. Therefore, I used to buy in to the notion of backsliding. I could identify myself in the backsliding stage, and yet still believed due to some of these supernatural experiences.

To settle your mind even more (since we have a common cult-based-background ), I can still speak in tongues, I can sing in tongues, I can speak different "languages" too. But I feel rather silly when I do. Even more, last year when I was in Sweden, I prayed with my family, in tonuges and also real language, "to Jesus", and in my mind I knew I was faking it, but no-one noticed or could discern it in their spirits. And I'm talking about some long time Christians here. My parents in their 70's, Christians since childhood. My oldest brother, an elder in a growing cult-fundamentalist-church-a-la-Livets-Ord in Orebro, and my other brothers ex-wife that been in Word of Faith movement since the beginning in the 80's. They should have "felt" it. But as far as I know, they didn't.

 

Now I am able to logically determine that my perceptions of the supernatural were thus because I wanted them to be so. I placed a supernatural label on very natural phenomenons which can be attributed to the power of the human mind.

Well put.

 

My father's involvement with TM was very supernaturally oriented. He did indeed claim to have participated in brief periods of levitation as a result of meditation.

I know a levitation trick that I demonstrated for one of my biz-partners, she wasn't prepared and she screamed... I was floating a few inches over the floor... just a trick... no magic My younger brother showed how to.

[Manta]

Care to explain that one here?

[Ouroboros]

I think I explained the levitation trick in another topic a while ago, but I can explain it again. It's very simple. You stand in a certain angle to the observer, left back side (about 45 deg angle), you start to lift yourself up by pushing your right foot down, until standing on toes, but only the right foot. At the same time you keep the left foot straight. If it's done right, the observer only see your left foot, and not that you're standing on your right foot toes. Done right, and with right timing etc, people think you're lifting from the ground a few inches.

[Johnny Smith]

I also have not lost the "gift" of speaking in tongues. I used to impress people at parties with my ability. On a few occasions, I made some people very uncomfortable. Some were fascinated. Some thought I really new some type of middle eastern language. Others just wanted me to stop. I did this during a time that I considered myself a "backslider." It is an individuals belief and affirmation that they are "backslidden" that I believe is truly detrimental.

 

There was a season in my post-Christian life that I began to do what any good "backslider" would do - lots of drinking and partying. I now realize that I used the alcohol as a numbing device to ease the pain of the contradictions of belief I was experiencing. Throwing myself into the bottle helped me to avoid facing the challenge of the lack of belief. I would make myself feel numb to the point of sick, and because I was not thinking clearly, I would use this as a reason later to "come back to the Lord" so that Jesus could heal me. It was a vicious cycle of belief, self-abuse and denial, belief, self-abuse and denial, and then belief again. I now realize that plunging into this self-destruct mode was only feeding the fuel of dysfunctional that I had grown accustomed to within the cultic belief system.

 

In many respects, I beliieve it may even be even harder for a "born again Christian" who has lost faith to come out of his/her own cult than it would be for a Jehovah's Witness or a Mormon. JWs and Mormons have an organization to leave. When they get out, they realize that this organization and those who ran it had an unhealthy control on very intimate aspects of their lives. Many Born Again Christians have formed such a strong fantasy in their mind of "relationship with Jesus" that breaking away from it can at times seem impossible. Indeed, I believe some never do. Some live their entire lives in dysfunction and unhappiness because in their subconscious they have bought into the lie that there really is a Jesus-God that they are "running from." How often did you hear someone say something to the effect of, "Backslidden Christians are some of the most miserable people."

 

So, I am trying to separate myself from that "backslidden" mindset. I can live free of the confines of spiritual dogma and still treat my body well, have a healthy family, and a good career. I can treat people with respect and "love my neighbor as myself" without the fantasy of Jesus looming in my mind. And most importantly, I can have a bad day, have great non-Christian friends, and satisfy my intellectual curiousity without the stigma of sin ruining all that is good in this mortal existance.

 

Johnny Smith

[Vortex]

I can relate to being haunted by your Christian past.

 

I posted my testimony yesterday about being an ex-Catholic. I still suffer from insomnia because of the "...no man shall know the day nor the hour." quote and "...the day of the Lord will come like a theif in the night."

 

I was, (and still am to some extent), fearful of judgement day. I have given up on Christianity. I ask myself, "Is my insomnia due to the fact that I still believe?" At this point, after a lot of soul-searching, I say no. My feelings are a vestige of programming by a belief system that needs fear to maintain control. I think the psychological term for what was done to me is Operant Conditioning.

 

I've thought about counseling, but from what I understand, they just help you find your own answer and I would rather do that on my own than pay someone for it.

 

Funny thing is, I still like old style Catholic churches. The art, the stained glass, the smell. I think I would get a sense of phyical pleasure of dipping my hand into the cool "holy" water from a marble font on a warm day, and listening to the echoes of my footfalls on the stone floors.

 

But I can't stomach the message. I can't get over the inconsistancies and atrocities of the bible. If "God" is who they say he is I want no part of him.

 

 

As an aside, since speaking in tongues was not part of Catholicism, I was always fascinated by it. I never bought it because there seemed to be no real syntax. Is it considered "mandatory" for some sects of Christianity?

[Johnny Smith]

There are some tongue-talkers that are more experienced and thus able to create a form of syntax that might sound like a real language to someone without a finely tuned ear. For example, when I was de-converting, one of my music professors was intrigued about my charismatic (tongue-talking) past. She asked me to speak in tongues for her. She is a very educated lady, and understood that it was bogus. Nevertheless, she was impressed by my glossolalia. To her, it sounded like a language. My tongues are not the common "La li la li la ali lo la." They are more like "Kombre iste lambradt et ech alamande borreste medrucheshta alafretenista ambrosiatiyana mendusta elefrekeshta mahaya zondo." Keep in mind as I just said that allowed, I rolled some Rs (like in spanish) and used some other lingual influences from Hebrew to create a more believable sentance in tongues.

 

Yes, I used to believe that this gift was inspired of the Holy Spirit. I spent hours speaking in tongues, working myself into an altered state of consciousness wherein I felt the "glory of the Lord" had descended upon me. Oh the follies of youth.

 

Like you, I have thought about counseling. I am still working past certain fears established in my formative years. These fears have caused massive depression in my life, and at one point in my de-conversion I found myself quite suicidal. My fear of Hell prevented me from taking my own life. I know I am being much too honest for a public forum, but what the heck, this is anonymous, right? The suicide note I wrote and the extreme depression I encountered propelled me full force back into Christianity for about a year. Belief that Jesus loved me, had good things for my life, and wanted to heal me from my past was enough to rid the plaguings of depression.

 

Now I am beginning to realize that truly I am master of my own domain. I can live free from the guilt-ridden past. I don't have to let the fantasy that I believed in my youth and young adults years affect my present and future. I can take joy in a beautiful symphony, a great piece of art, a hike in the mountains, and the company of like-minded non-Christian individuals. Life is too precious to be wasted on the mire of belief in a god that does not exist.

 

Johnny Smith

 

PS - Yes, the Baptism in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is considered by many evangelicals to be the fullness of God's intended "gifts" for mankind. Those gifts being salvation and the present "help" of the Holy Spirit.

[Vortex]

Jhonny Smit:

 

Thanks for an insight into a world that I have no experience of. I consider my horizons broadend, and I thank you.

 

I empathize with your depression, (always thought sympathy was condescending). I am very sorry that you experienced so much pain. It took guts to post what you did. I really do hope that life continues to improve for you.

 

Anyone who can come back from the kinds of emotions you described to find beauty in life is an amazing person. I tip my hat to you.