Prayer Doesn’t Work

[EdwardAbbey]

Dear Christian,

 

When are you going to realize that prayers are a complete waste of time and they always fail?

When I hear Christians telling me they pray real hard, I bet it gives them one hell of a headache. Because they don’t go any further than their own brains.

 

Therefore, praying must be very painful for the brain of the Christian.

 

Christian,

 

Where is the evidence any of your prayers have ever been answered by an imaginary sky God? First of all, there isn’t any substantiated evidence there is a God in the first place. So why would you want to even bother talking to something that is imaginary ? All you are doing is talking to yourself. Isn’t that a little abnormal to do such a thing? Talking to yourself?

Prayer just doesn’t work. So when are you ever going to come to grips with that fact? Face reality and start living a normal life again based on reason and common sense.

[Vixentrox]

Pray to a brick, pray to a god the results the same.

[EdwardAbbey]

Pray to a brick, pray to a god the results the same.

 

Or check the weather report before praying for rain.

 

[Astreja]

At very least, if you're gonna talk to yourself, dump the "I am a miserable sinner" horseshit and say something like "I know that I have the strength and courage to get us through this crisis." That, at least, does work.

[Kurari]

I'm not a Christian, but I am a believer. I disagree entirely that prayer doesn't work. I do it regularly, have seen it work for me consistently, and it's been very beneficial in my life.

 

Where is the evidence any of your prayers have ever been answered by an imaginary sky God?

 

What would you consider evidence? What exactly is it that you expect to happen during prayer?

 

First of all, there isn’t any substantiated evidence there is a God in the first place.

 

There isn't any substantiated evidence that God doesn't exist either. This is a really old strawman argument that has never worked on either side.

 

So why would you want to even bother talking to something that is imaginary ? All you are doing is talking to yourself. Isn’t that a little abnormal to do such a thing? Talking to yourself?

 

Why is it abnormal? Barring actual mental illness, sometimes it's the only way to get an intelligent conversation. If it helps make life a little happier and easier, is this really a bad thing?

 

Prayer just doesn’t work. So when are you ever going to come to grips with that fact? Face reality and start living a normal life again based on reason and common sense.

 

Just because people pray doesn't mean they don't live a normal life based on reason and common sense. Actually, I think reason and common sense is really a pre-requisit when it comes to prayer if you want to recognize the results. If you're expecting prayer to be like ordering a burger at a McDonalds, and it's going to be made "your way," then you're probably going to be dissapointed. This is god, not cosmic "take-out." There are still laws of physics and time in place that God follows.

 

BTW, considering it's impossible to prove or dissprove God's existance or if prayer works or not, it's not a valid goal to ask for proof. The most that can happen in this thread is the sharing of viewpoints.

[EdwardAbbey]

 

I'm not a Christian, but I am a believer. I disagree entirely that prayer doesn't work. I do it regularly, have seen it work for me consistently, and it's been very beneficial in my life.

 

I’ll take your word for it but could you explain how your prayers actually and literally worked? Or was it just a coincidence that it worked? How do you know (assume) it was a God answering them?

 

There isn't any substantiated evidence that God doesn't exist either. This is a really old strawman argument that has never worked on either side

 

How is it a strawman? If anything your statement: “worked or proved from either side” argument is the strawman. There is only one side that has to prove anything and that is the theistic side of the argument. The burden is on you not the non-believer.

 

Why is it abnormal? Barring actual mental illness, sometimes it's the only way to get an intelligent conversation.

How is it possible to get an intelligent conversation with yourself? Because that’s what prayer really is. Talking to yourself. There is no God listening. Like I said, they don’t go any further than your brain. So in that sense it is bordering on abnormal to some extent. Actually slightly delusional.

 

If it helps make life a little happier and easier, is this really a bad thing?

Just how does fooling yourself by praying to something imaginary make your life happier and easier?

That sounds like something little children do that have imaginary friends like Santa Claus or some other imaginary friend they create in their little minds doesn’t it?

 

Actually, I think reason and common sense is really a pre-requisit when it comes to prayer if you want to recognize the results

If you were applying reason and common sense to the concept of prayer you would realize how worthless the entire idea really is in the first place.

 

If you're expecting prayer to be like ordering a burger at a McDonalds, and it's going to be made "your way," then you're probably going to be dissapointed

 

Is this the other hypothesis I’m always hearing from believers about prayer that God answers all prayers but not the way we expect them to be answered? He answers with a yes, no or a maybe? Or by his silence alone is an answer in itself? What a crock of BS. More reasons your prayers are going no further than your brain. Because there isn’t even a God outside your mind listening to anything you are saying.

 

There are still laws of physics and time in place that God follows.

Does that mean you have to take a number or make an appointment with God before he answers your request?

 

I don’t think you are really catching what’s really happening here. everything you have expressed about your prayer experiences is nothing more than wishful thinking that there is this sky God in outer space somewhere who is actually listening to every thing you are saying when there is nothing there at all. It’s just your own mind you are communicating with.

 

BTW, considering it's impossible to prove or dissprove God's existance or if prayer works or not, it's not a valid goal to ask for proof. The most that can happen in this thread is the sharing of viewpoints.

I think I’ve heard this cop out many times that is almost laughable. You can’t prove anything because you know full well there is nothing you can prove because there is no evidence the god you are praying to even exists. Why else would you need faith? you don't "know" there is a God you are praying to. you don't even have a God. Just a belief.

[Seth C Triggs]

I think the problem with supernatural claims is that they're really unprovable in general. We can't really prove in an objective way that something does or doesn't exist in the supernatural realm. That's why such questions are in the realm of ontology/philosophy and not science, in my opinion.

 

So with the idea of prayer, I figure that if it "works" for a person, that's fine. If it doesn't, the person ought to find something that "works." In my case, whatever "works" (for me, that is achieving whatever it is that I seek) either involves a lot of hard work or just reconciliation that it's not going to happen.

 

I must say, there could be something to be said for the power of positive thinking, for example for healing.

 

-Seth

[Kurari]

 

I'm not a Christian, but I am a believer. I disagree entirely that prayer doesn't work. I do it regularly, have seen it work for me consistently, and it's been very beneficial in my life.

******

I’ll take your word for it but could you explain how your prayers actually and literally worked? Or was it just a coincidence that it worked? How do you know (assume) it was a God answering them?

 

It depends on what your definition of "working" is. My definition of "working" is that prayer has allowed me to feel a connection to what I believe is the Divine.

 

 

There isn't any substantiated evidence that God doesn't exist either. This is a really old strawman argument that has never worked on either side

******

How is it a strawman? If anything your statement: “worked or proved from either side” argument is the strawman. There is only one side that has to prove anything and that is the theistic side of the argument. The burden is on you not the non-believer.

 

A strawman is a misrepresentation of the opponent's position. A strawman argument is to misrepresent a position, refute it, and then pretend that the opponent's actual position has been refuted. You cannot prove or disprove a belief.

 

Why is it abnormal? Barring actual mental illness, sometimes it's the only way to get an intelligent conversation.

How is it possible to get an intelligent conversation with yourself?

 

That was a joke.

 

Because that’s what prayer really is. Talking to yourself. There is no God listening. Like I said, they don’t go any further than your brain. So in that sense it is bordering on abnormal to some extent. Actually slightly delusional.

 

That's your belief, not a fact. The CDC and the APA have not classified talking to yourself to be abnormal barring diagnosis of mental illness with other accompanying symptoms and factors determined by a liscensed professional.

 

Reminds me of that line from Dogma, "The Metatron acts as the voice of God. When they are talking to God, they are talking to me...or they're talking to themselves."

 

If it helps make life a little happier and easier, is this really a bad thing?

Just how does fooling yourself by praying to something imaginary make your life happier and easier?

That sounds like something little children do that have imaginary friends like Santa Claus or some other imaginary friend they create in their little minds doesn’t it?

 

How ironic. This sounds EXACTLY like what the christians asked me a long time ago when I deconverted. Deja vu.

 

Actually, I think reason and common sense is really a pre-requisit when it comes to prayer if you want to recognize the results

*******

If you were applying reason and common sense to the concept of prayer you would realize how worthless the entire idea really is in the first place.

 

Again, your belief and nothing else. Just because you state it doesn't make it fact.

 

If you're expecting prayer to be like ordering a burger at a McDonalds, and it's going to be made "your way," then you're probably going to be dissapointed

*********

Is this the other hypothesis I’m always hearing from believers about prayer that God answers all prayers but not the way we expect them to be answered? He answers with a yes, no or a maybe? Or by his silence alone is an answer in itself? What a crock of BS. More reasons your prayers are going no further than your brain. Because there isn’t even a God outside your mind listening to anything you are saying.

 

 

No, it's saying that if god is supposedly an intelligent and omnipotent being, why exactly do humans just expect to always get what they want just because they go through the act of praying? Isn't that kind of an arrogant expectation of a god?

 

There are still laws of physics and time in place that God follows.

********

Does that mean you have to take a number or make an appointment with God before he answers your request?

 

No, it means if I ask for a Mercades, is god just going to beam one to my driveway? Why would a god unmake the laws of physics, space, time, and freewill just because I ask him to?

 

 

I don’t think you are really catching what’s really happening here. everything you have expressed about your prayer experiences is nothing more than wishful thinking that there is this sky God in outer space somewhere who is actually listening to every thing you are saying when there is nothing there at all. It’s just your own mind you are communicating with.

 

Considering you asked at the very beginning how my prayer experiances worked and I never gave them in the first place, I'd say I'm perfectly aware of this conversation. You on the other hand, have descended into the exact same silly, concescending, self-righteous, bigoted, immature, garbage debate I've heard for years from the christians. It wasn't interesting then, and it's not interesting now.

 

You have a belief that god doesn't exist and nothing more. All you are proving to me is that you are far too insecure and immature to handle other viewpoints.

 

BTW, considering it's impossible to prove or dissprove God's existance or if prayer works or not, it's not a valid goal to ask for proof. The most that can happen in this thread is the sharing of viewpoints.

*********

I think I’ve heard this cop out many times that is almost laughable. You can’t prove anything because you know full well there is nothing you can prove because there is no evidence the god you are praying to even exists. Why else would you need faith? you don't "know" there is a God you are praying to. you don't even have a God. Just a belief.

 

Uh, I haven't TRIED to prove anything. In fact, I stated that quite clearly several times, and then you just reiterated it for me.

 

Time for me to smile, nod, pretend to agree, and back away slowly. Bye now.

[white_raven23]

How is it possible to get an intelligent conversation with yourself? Because that’s what prayer really is. Talking to yourself. There is no God listening. Like I said, they don’t go any further than your brain. So in that sense it is bordering on abnormal to some extent. Actually slightly delusional.

 

Now....I don't pray, and I don't talk to myself in the expectation that merely that will have an affect on my environment or circumstance.......but I DO believe you can get perfectly intelligent conversation with yourself.

 

Anytime you ask yourself a question that requires thought or research to answer to one's own satisfaction....not only do I consider that intelligent conversation, I see it as a means of turning talking to oneself into productive action. Which is also a positive.

 

I find talking to myself helps me organize my thoughts, and is very much a part of my problem-solving.

 

It really isn't my fault that some low self esteem dip wants to call that "prayer" and the positive outcome an "answer" from a deity. It's sad when they have so little self confidence they cannot attribute their own success to themselves. The way they seem to think, anything negative in their lives is a result of their own action....but anything positive MUST come from elsewhere because they don't deserve to claim credit for their own success. After all the religious culture has hammered into people that such acknowledgement of accomplishment is selfish and prideful......so people go to great lengths deferring their earned credits to others and god in order to be socially acceptable as a "humble" person.

[Skankboy]

No, it means if I ask for a Mercades, is god just going to beam one to my driveway? Why would a god unmake the laws of physics, space, time, and freewill just because I ask him to?

 

Actually, yes. Throughout most religions that believe in the existence of a deity, this is EXACTLY the response they are looking for when praying. It's called a miracle.

 

If your version of "god" is bound by the physical laws, what makes it "god" in the first place? Also, no offense, but what you describe is more akin to meditation, not prayer. We have several contemplative christians here and their descriptions sound nearly identicle to what you are describing.

 

If not a Christian, I would be very intersted to hear what exactly you consider yourself and how you would define "god"...

 

IMOHO,

[Kurari]

No, it means if I ask for a Mercades, is god just going to beam one to my driveway? Why would a god unmake the laws of physics, space, time, and freewill just because I ask him to?

 

Actually, yes. Throughout most religions that believe in the existence of a deity, this is EXACTLY the response they are looking for when praying. It's called a miracle.

 

I have never really understood this concept. Why is it the only way God can answer a prayer or it "doesn't work" is by a miracle? Why is "No" not considered a real answer if it's coming from God? If I say "Hey God, when I walk out my front door in five minutes, I want to see a new silver Mercades sitting in the driveway." If God says to me, "No," did my prayer technically not work? Is "working" defined on whether I heard an Answer or by the Mercades appearing?

 

If your version of "god" is bound by the physical laws, what makes it "god" in the first place?

 

Because then it would make no sense for God to have set up the universe the way it runs. As far as science can tell, nature runs on a system of checks and balances. Why would God set it up this way just to pick and choose what laws He wants to obey today because somebody asked him/her/it nicely? Wouldn't it make the 'checks and balances' nature of life totally pointless in the first place? Wouldn't taking one cog out of place cause horrendous damage to the rest of creation?

 

Is God CAPABLE of doing this? I dunno. I guess so. I just don't see why he would bother.

 

 

Also, no offense, but what you describe is more akin to meditation, not prayer. We have several contemplative christians here and their descriptions sound nearly identicle to what you are describing.

 

Sharp observation. Yes, I do meditate regularly. Meditation and prayer go very well hand in hand together. Not all prayer is a meditation and not all meditation is a prayer, but there really is nothing to say to you can't pray while you meditate.

 

 

If not a Christian, I would be very intersted to hear what exactly you consider yourself and how you would define "god"...

 

IMOHO,

 

I'm a Theist, not a christian. I don't play nicely with organized religions even though they facinate me.

 

How do I define God...hmmm. Well, honestly, that's an ever changing definition. I don't believe God is a seperate being from us. I'm of the school of thought thate there is nothing that is not God and there is no place that God cannot go. So I guess in one way I could define God is simply as "Life." Still, I do believe I have connected with something intelligent and different from just my thought processes in action. Something warm, non-judgemental, and unconditionally loving that doesn't tell me what to think or what to do. There is no way I can prove it to anyone, but after I started praying regularly I've known things I couldn't have possibly thought of, and manifested things into my life that I've never been able to before. None of it was really miraculous or very awe inspiring.