Life Before Birth

[Guest Faery]

I always gotta be asking crazy questions.

 

Does anyone believe in life before birth? Mormons believe this as well as others. What's your take?

[Guest HansJansen]

Nope.

[willybilly30]

Its possible. I can't remeber If i lived before but I have met people who say they can. I can barely remeber my life before age 5.

[Asimov]

Um...I believe there was life before I was born. Just not mine.

[Antlerman]

When trying to tell someone how I imagine life after death to be, I will always ask them, "Do you remember what it was like 1 year before you were born? 5 years; 1000 years; 25,000 years; 1 million years; 2.8 billion years; 12 billion years? That's what it will be like for you after you are dead." Dead is none existence. We just don't call those not born yet "dead", though for all intents and purposes it's the same. Dead really refers to the biological waste product of our bodies after our life is over. It's no more a cold reality than being non-existent before your life.

[Taphophilia]

I think maybe in a reincarnation way. Maybe it's possible, but no one knows and no one can prove it. I've talked to people who do past life regressions who are absolutely convinced in reincarnation without a god concept.

 

I don't remember living in another life or pre-existing, but than I don't remember being born or the first two years of my life, but just because I don't remember doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

If I ever had a past life regression, I would want to research the person that I used to be and see if it's provable that person existed. If reincarnation is true than the people you would have been must have existed and you could at least prove they existed.

 

Taph

[Dhampir]

I feel like brain/memory space for lives previous to this one would be a complete waste of space. Afterall, how many past life memories could you have before you had no room in your brain for this life? Hell, even now there are plenty of events from every year of my life that I don't remember...even in this life, even after our memory has formed to house things longterm...there's still shit that gets thrown in the garbage heap.

haha. I like when something I say like that gets repeated.

[Amanda]

Isn't it amazing how some people seem to have stored talents they bring into this world, that doesnt' seem to be genetically tied to their family tree? My oldest son, who had never rode a bicycle... was once put on one when he was almost 5, because the new daycare had asked him if he knew how to ride one. He said 'yes' although he had never been on one, so he got on, and they gave him a push. It took only a minute to ride perfectly, and without ever falling! It was incredible! I could take him riding in a lot of places and he seemed to always know the rules of the road even at 5 years old! My next son, was a totally different story. I had to run along side of him forever, after the training wheels came off.

 

There are so many stories of child prodigies that seem to do things like play a piano at their first sitting! The story of how they choose the next Dali Llama is interesting too. These kind of stories, IMO, are quite compelling for the progression of some kind of sub/consciousness from the past, if true. What other explanation could there be?

[Antlerman]

What other explanation could there be?

Since you asked the question... I guess the question should be, do you believe there can be no natural explanation? Personally, I find natural explanations plenty inspiring, but I can see it not being as appealing as imagining a traversing soul from one life to the next. There are some that see no other explanation for Einstein’s unique genius than an alien influence, but I find the natural explanation for certain types of talents much cooler, like Annie Oakley's incredible sense of eye hand coordination. It's something that propels the very heart of evolution.

[Amanda]

What other explanation could there be?

Since you asked the question... I guess the question should be, do you believe there can be no natural explanation? Personally, I find natural explanations plenty inspiring, but I can see it not being as appealing as imagining a traversing soul from one life to the next. There are some that see no other explanation for Einstein’s unique genius than an alien influence, but I find the natural explanation for certain types of talents much cooler, like Annie Oakley's incredible sense of eye hand coordination. It's something that propels the very heart of evolution.

Antlerman, yes... that is definitely an explanation. There may be some genetics that allow someone to be quite proficient in balance that just accumulated into the genetic pool without any previously recognized decendents having anything close to such talents. Heck, maybe someone can just sit down at a piano for their first time and just 'know' genetically where all the keys are and what sound they make, rationally, and how to place them together in such a manner to create wonderful masterpieces! Maybe it is extremely rare that all these genetic influences come together in such a sequence to make all that possible! That is truly an amazing, plausable, natural explanation!

 

However, to become the next Dali Llama, and to reveal information only the previous one would have known, and there is NO way that this person is a direct decendent of this previous Dali Llama because he had no children (no chance of genetic memory)... is that thanks to evolution too? Coincidence?

 

I'm sure there are many explanations, and each person just seems to embrace the one most plausable to them. Even though it seems to be best to build a house on a solid concrete foundation, I certainly think it is beneficial to keep ALL possibilities open for consideration. Sometimes things seem to solidify with time, and sometimes concrete seems to crumble.

[Antlerman]

I'm sure there are many explanations, and each person just seems to embrace the one most plausable to them. Even though it seems to be best to build a house on a solid concrete foundation, I certainly think it is beneficial to keep ALL possibilities open for consideration. Sometimes things seem to solidify with time, and sometimes concrete seems to crumble.

If all these things were occurring exactly as reported, taking into account peoples perceptions in recounting what really occurred, that a child having had no exposure to music or musical instruments could sit down and spontaneously begin playing western scales of music and following various rules of composition they had never been exposed to; I would have to say I would be duly impressed and begin to imagine an explanation of some sort of previous life experience as a possibility. For me however, these sorts of things so far have not been compelling enough to leave the - first thought - of a natural explanation. There have been far too many confirmations that these practically inexplicable phenomena have credible natural explanations.

 

Dali Lama? Not sure what to say. My first thought would be looking into how they are asking the questions, what answers they are receiving and interpreting, etc. In other words, what are the standards for ensuring pure objectivity? If all these are addressed and shown that no natural explanation will suffice, then we can entertain the more speculative thoughts. But when we are confronted statistically that time and time again natural explainations are confirmed, is it any wonder I would look there first? My confidence in looking first for answers in the natural does not mean I won't entertain others also, but it's unlikely for me to go there first, bypassing a careful examination of it where the answer historically most likely will be found.

[euphgeek]

Yes, I believe in life before birth. There's plenty of evidence that it does exist, and I find the arguments against singularly unconvincing.

 

As a side note, many Christians say they don't believe in it because of Hebrews 9:27. But that's just one verse against three other verses that support reincarnation. Namely, John 9:2, Matthew 11:12-14 and Matthew 17:10-13.

[euphgeek]

not to be a nitpicker, but if reincarnation turned out to be true, it would be just as natural as anything else. Weird shit, if real, is just weird shit, doesn't make it "supernatural."

 

To me supernatural is a word that can be equated with: "Mythological" literally more than what is natural. If what is natural is all that exists in the world, (even the shit we can't see but can measure) isn't supernatural like saying: "more than what exists"

 

i.e. biased out of hand as "fake?"

I agree with you 100%, Zoe. There is no "supernatural," only natural things that science hasn't discovered or been able to explain yet.

[Guest Faery]

I always gotta be asking crazy questions.

 

Does anyone believe in life before birth? Mormons believe this as well as others. What's your take?

 

 

do you mean in a fetus/abortion way, or in a reincarnational type way?

 

Btw...I like your crazy questions lol.

 

Zoe, I meant in a reincarnation type of way. Also some people out there believe that we're out in the universe or in heaven somewhere before we come here to live on Earth. Some people even believe that we choose our parents and family and come to live with them on earth. So yeah those are the ideas that I meant when I said "life before death," I did not mean it in a fetus/abortion type of way at all. Sorry if I gave that impression.

 

Thanks! I'm glad you like my crazy questions. hehe.

 

I like the ideas of possibility and that's why I don't like organized religion because its very limiting, no one really knows the truth. We speculate and do the best we can with the information that we have, but in the end, we don't really know what's out there. Life is full of mysteries.

[scitsofreaky]

Does anyone believe in life before birth? Mormons believe this as well as others. What's your take?

I think it should be pointed out that what the Mormons believe is not anything like reincarnation. In fact, I don't know any other religion that believes that we were apart of the heavenly host and agreed to everything that would happen (eg original sin). IMO it does seem a bit more consistent with the idea of an eternal soul, which is, as far as I am concerned, its downfall.

Anywho, back on topic. I don't personally believe in reincarnation because I don't know what there is to be reincarnated. I don't think there is any supernatural "soul" or whatever inside of us that "lives" on after we die.

[Amanda]

Does anyone believe in life before birth? Mormons believe this as well as others. What's your take?

I think it should be pointed out that what the Mormons believe is not anything like reincarnation. In fact, I don't know any other religion that believes that we were apart of the heavenly host and agreed to everything that would happen (eg original sin). IMO it does seem a bit more consistent with the idea of an eternal soul, which is, as far as I am concerned, its downfall.

Anywho, back on topic. I don't personally believe in reincarnation because I don't know what there is to be reincarnated. I don't think there is any supernatural "soul" or whatever inside of us that "lives" on after we die.

Scitsofreaky, I've heard that more of the world's population believes in reincarnation than those that don't. This seems to be especially seen in the far east. See Wikipedia here. This article also states this interesting claim:

 

Stevenson has spent over 40 years devoted to the study of children who have spoken about concepts seemingly unknown to them. Dr Stevenson maintains a thorough scientific method of interview and observation. In each case, Dr. Stevenson methodically documents the child's statements. Then he identifies the deceased person the child allegedly identifies with, and verifies the facts of the deceased person's life that match the child's memory. He also matches birthmarks and birth defects to wounds and scars on the deceased, verified by medical records such as autopsy photographs. These sometimes reveal that the deceased individuals have fatal injuries that correspond to the unusual marks or birth defects of the child; for example, marks on the chest and back of a child line up precisely with the bullet entry and exit wounds on the body of an individual who has been shot.

 

Stevenson believes that his strict methods rule out all possible "normal" explanations for the child’s memories. However, it should be noted that a significant majority of Dr. Stevenson's reported cases of reincarnation originate in Eastern societies, where dominant religions often permit the concept of reincarnation.

 

Perhaps the most significant anecdotal evidence in this regard is the phenomenon of young children spontaneously sharing what appear to be memories of past lives, a phenomenon which has been reported even in cultures that do not hold to a belief in reincarnation. Upon investigating these claims, Stevenson and others have identified individuals who had died a few years before the child was born who seem to meet the descriptions the children provided.

 

However, Stevenson cautions that such evidence is suggestive of reincarnation, but that more research must be conducted.

 

 

I think that the idea behind reincarnation is that we keep coming back till we learn our 'lessons' to reach this highest stage of spirituality, in which we have a deep commitment to what we have come to define as sacred. It is reaching the 'God' and I are one state. Supposedly this is how 'karma' is ultimately played out too. Many feel that we agree to life's situations before we come here to learn these lessons we need, or for others to learn the lesson they need. Some believe the initial fall from the 'perfect' state is so that we could 'fall' in love and the many experiences just makes life more full.

 

If this is a natural occurrence, then there is nothing 'supernatural', right?

[Fweethawt]

The only life before birth that I remember is flying down a tube at supersonic speed kinda like those dudes in The Running Man.

[Amanda]

I think that the idea behind reincarnation is that we keep coming back till we learn our 'lessons' to reach this highest stage of spirituality, in which we have a deep commitment to what we have come to define as sacred.

 

My response to this idea: Why bother and who will care.

Reboot, this just presupposes that life is always getting better. Don't we want to make the world better for future generations? Doesn't it seem like we are getting better?

 

You are or you are not.... the idea that life was made available just to filter souls and create battling entities (the good and the bad) is repulsive.

Hmmmm... who said all this?

 

The idea of a supreme creating intelligent living units in a space-time bubble out of infinite boredom or as a proof of his own existence is pathetically mindless.

Did you find that in the Wikipedia? I'm sure there are many different theories, although I don't think too many groups entertan that one... I think most just think everything is part of the one.

 

The actual confirmation of one of these hypothesis would probably lead to mass suicides... pointlessness, in an eternal void....

Suicide? Does the person want to come and do this same thing over again? Why not learn and move on, especially if you don't like the way your life is going....

 

Of course... no one knows what is going to happen, perhaps until after they die. So everyone seems to be better off as to live like this is the only life there is... and what is wrong with that either way?

 

 

 

Also...personally, and this isn't an argument with your interpretation, it's only adding my interpretation onto it...but I think...if reincarnation is true, that it isn't neceessarily all about learning lessons, but more or less, if there is some state of us that truly is eternal, then what else are we gonna do with eternity?

Zoe, I agree with that too! I think that experiencing these varied aspects of life is what makes us more enriched also... in many ways.

[Dhampir]

I think that the idea behind reincarnation is that we keep coming back till we learn our 'lessons' to reach this highest stage of spirituality, in which we have a deep commitment to what we have come to define as sacred.

I find that notion unfounded, on the fact that if there were no life, there would be no reincarnation. If some disaster were to cause an extinction level event, and all life on earth were destroyed, how could any 'lessons' be learned?

[dr_funkenstein]

If this is a natural occurrence, then there is nothing 'supernatural', right?

 

Obviously... anything that occurs is nature is by definition not supernatural. However, I believe the current scientific understanding of what makes up our personality, memories, emotions precludes the idea of reincarnation by its ver nature. Memories are a biological function, seated in the brain.

 

If an individual's brain is damaged in the area that deals with memory, then that person will lose memories or other bizarre effects occur, such as the ability to recall long-term memories but no short-term memory or vice-versa. This indicates to me that memory is a completely biological function... so unless reincarnation involves some kind of biological process where brain cells are transplanted into a fetus, I can't see any validity in the idea.

[euphgeek]

I think that the idea behind reincarnation is that we keep coming back till we learn our 'lessons' to reach this highest stage of spirituality, in which we have a deep commitment to what we have come to define as sacred.

I find that notion unfounded, on the fact that if there were no life, there would be no reincarnation. If some disaster were to cause an extinction level event, and all life on earth were destroyed, how could any 'lessons' be learned?

You don't think there is any possibility of life on other planets?

[euphgeek]

If this is a natural occurrence, then there is nothing 'supernatural', right?

 

Obviously... anything that occurs is nature is by definition not supernatural. However, I believe the current scientific understanding of what makes up our personality, memories, emotions precludes the idea of reincarnation by its ver nature. Memories are a biological function, seated in the brain.

 

If an individual's brain is damaged in the area that deals with memory, then that person will lose memories or other bizarre effects occur, such as the ability to recall long-term memories but no short-term memory or vice-versa. This indicates to me that memory is a completely biological function... so unless reincarnation involves some kind of biological process where brain cells are transplanted into a fetus, I can't see any validity in the idea.

The use of the Phineas Gage argument to disprove souls is not very convincing to me. If the soul exists, it is most likely to the brain what a radio wave is to a radio. If a radio is malfunctioning, the radio waves cannot take over for the components that are damaged.

[Fweethawt]

so unless reincarnation involves some kind of biological process where brain cells are transplanted into a fetus, I can't see any validity in the idea.

Even if you pulled off the cell transplant, what you are refering to as "memories" still wouldn't be there.

 

Cells are one thing. How they're connected at the most basic level within a person, making them that person, is a different story altogether. The closest thing that you could probably come to to pull something like this would be an entire brain transplant.

 

[Fweethawt]

 

The use of the Phineas Gage argument to disprove souls is not very convincing to me. If the soul exists, it is most likely to the brain what a radio wave is to a radio. If a radio is malfunctioning, the radio waves cannot take over for the components that are damaged.

 

Oooh nice analogy. And a radio not working doesn't mean the radio waves aren't there.

Now you're making it sound like we're some sort of receivers.

 

Sure, the waves might still be there emitting from a transmitter. But if the radio is broke, it's broke. No reception. Or poor reception depending on the extent of the damage.

[Amanda]

Sure, the waves might still be there emitting from a transmitter. But if the radio is broke, it's broke. No reception. Or poor reception depending on the extent of the damage.

 

Fwee, it seems that if my radio is broken, then the radio waves still exists. I just have limited or no capabilities to receive them through my receptors, to translate them to be understood where I am in my present position. The ways of which I can be experiencing the radio waves have become limited. If the radio isn't working at all, wouldn't I just go get another brand new radio?

 

Apologies... I just couldn't omit that last question/suggestion...

 

 

BTW... I'm not so sure in reincarnation myself. I just tend to think it is a possibility. AND many in the scientific community haven't dismissed it either.