Jesus Doesn't Have Faith The Size Of A Mustard Seed.

[Ouroboros]

Just one of those random thoughts I had today:

 

Jesus supposedly said, have faith as the size of a mustard seed and you can tell the mountain to take a dive in the ocean.

 

Now, two things comes from this, first there is a story in the Gospels when Jesus can't heal many sick because the people didn't have faith... Now, where were Jesus' faith there? It can't have been big as a mustard seed.

 

Secondly, when Christians say "well you don't believe in Jesus, but Jesus believes in you", then my thought was, how can it be I have no faith then? If Jesus have that faith he would be able to overcome my doubts and give me faith too. So he doesn't have much faith at all.

[Dhampir]

Man, if only I could remember all these arguments when they are presented to me. I'd be THE THEOLOGICAL JUGGERNAUT BITCH!!!

[dr_funkenstein]

If there was a historical healer-type person on whom the Jesus of the bible was based, it would seem that he was a bit of a charlatan. His healings always seemed to depend on the faith of the afflicted. On several occasions he says to the healed person "your faith has made you well". Couple that with the notion that he couldn't heal where there was insufficient faith, and it would appear that his healing was nothing more than wishful thinking and self-delusion on the part of the so-called "healed".

[Ouroboros]

Agree. If this fictious person really had been truly 100% God, he could have healed without the need of receivers faith. Damn it, he created the universe without anyones "faith", can't he heal a simple cold without the participant have to add his "belief" to it?

[duderonomy]

Well, as a fundie I would have answered that it didn't matter how much faith Jesus had. It mattered how much faith they had.

Jesus said in Mark to have the faith of God...in Romans, that God has given to every man 'the measure of faith'. And you can choose to believe that Jesus can heal, or not. Remember the man at the pool? Jesus asked him, 'will you be made whole?'. Not everybody wants to be healthy, it takes away a lot of excuses.

 

As for the 'He believes in you' stuff, I think at most it's a pep talk from Christians. It has no root in faith, and it certainly has nothing to do with the scriptures that I'm aware of, nor faith.

 

Yes, God created the world without anyone's faith. But people are a little different than than plants and dirt and dogs and cats, don't you think? In the book of Hebrews the author asks; "to which of the angels did God say at any time, 'You are my Son, today I have begotten Thee?' ". The answer of course, is that God never said that to any any angel. But God said that to Jesus, the firstborn among many brethren. We aren't the same as any other part of creation, so why do you think that God would treat us the same?

[Ouroboros]

I know the argument, but I disagree, because of the question who had the faith for Lazarus to rise from the dead, or Jesus himself, or most of the healing Jesus supposedly did... plenty of stories in the Gospel where no one's faith has anything to do with it. Only a few are based on "faith" of the receiver. And also, why does the personal faith has anything to do with a miracle, if God can make water to wine, or make someone fly in the air, or someone walk on water, heck then he can create some new eyes, even against someones will or doubt. A persons faith or doubt shouldn't be an issue. Not if God is all powerful and all faith. Only explanation is that this supposed God choses not to. He doesn't want to act against someones doubts. Or his faith can't even move the mountain of doubt. He can't remove doubt, it's too powerful for him.

 

I realized many years ago that a mustard seed of doubt is stronger than a mountain of faith. You only need one in church that is a little doubtful, against the whole congregation full of believers, to undo a miracle. You only need handful of homosexuals in a city full of religious zealots to bring on a hurricane. Doubt is strong than faith.

[notasheep]

Jesus supposedly said, have faith as the size of a mustard seed and you can tell the mountain to take a dive in the ocean.

 

Now, two things comes from this, first there is a story in the Gospels when Jesus can't heal many sick because the people didn't have faith... Now, where were Jesus' faith there? It can't have been big as a mustard seed.

 

I've been thinking along these lines myself, but more as a way to prove to christians that they don't have faith.

From James 5:14,15: Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him...and the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the lord will make him well."

and John 14:14: "if you ask anything in my name, I will do it."

and the mustard seed one. Notice there's no "sometimes god says yes, sometimes no, sometimes maybe later.

 

And since it's faith that counts, my question for the christians is obvious, "are you sure you have enough faith? Healed anyone lately? Moved any mountains?"

[Ouroboros]

Very true. There's a clear conflict between "have faith, move mountains" and "pray, and maybe God answers yes."

[EdwardAbbey]

Just one of those random thoughts I had today:

 

Jesus supposedly said, have faith as the size of a mustard seed and you can tell the mountain to take a dive in the ocean.

 

Now, two things comes from this, first there is a story in the Gospels when Jesus can't heal many sick because the people didn't have faith... Now, where were Jesus' faith there? It can't have been big as a mustard seed.

 

Secondly, when Christians say "well you don't believe in Jesus, but Jesus believes in you", then my thought was, how can it be I have no faith then? If Jesus have that faith he would be able to overcome my doubts and give me faith too. So he doesn't have much faith at all.

 

Why the hell would Jesus need faith anyway? He was all-knowing was he not? he was God according to what the majority of xtanis assert isn't that right? Therefore, since he allegedly had knowledge of everything, there was no need for him to have any faith whatsoever. but then again, he was just a myth anyway.

 

[duderonomy]

Han,

 

I know you know the argument. Actually, I agree with your OP.

I was just playing Jesus' Advocate, if you will.

 

[Ouroboros]

I know you know the argument. Actually, I agree with your OP.

I was just playing Jesus' Advocate, if you will.

No problemo.

 

If I came out with blazing guns, I'm sorry, my posts are always a reflection on my mood at the moment, and hence sometimes less diplomatic.

 

Why the hell would Jesus need faith anyway? He was all-knowing was he not? he was God according to what the majority of xtanis assert isn't that right? Therefore, since he allegedly had knowledge of everything, there was no need for him to have any faith whatsoever. but then again, he was just a myth anyway.

That brings up another angle to it. Supposedly faith comes from God, that's one of those "three things that lasts forever" (faith, love and ... ??? diamons??? ) Like you said, why would "God" need faith? Is faith a higher "metaphysical" law for being able to act or change things? Would "faith" then be something that binds and limits God? He's not all powerful then! He's bound by some laws outside his existence too!