Matt Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Hey. I was christian for about a year. I didnt leave because of the errors of the bible. I found that out later. Ive deconverted for a few months now. I have but one reason. Why would and all-knowing, all powerful god allows things like this to happen. This plagued my thoughts for a few months prior to deconversion. It all comes down to god beying held accountable for well...EVERYTHING. I was tlaking to my mum last night (still thinks im a christian). I asked her that question. How could an all knowing all powerful god allow the creation of hell, lucifer or even before he rebelled when he was an angel...perfect. Smirkingly i said: Well if he was created perfect, why did he do an imperfect thing. Neeeewhoo off the topic. I tried to say its injustice. She proceeded to say that it was all lucifers fault. Their is no blame to god. Then i said....But god know lucifer would rebel, yet still let him do it. Then she would go on about battles in the heaven and how god defeated lucifer blah blah. Its not a battle if you are an all knowing, all powerful god. Your power is unrivaled therefore no resistance. Ok so at thsi point mum keeps saying its lucifer fault not gods. Then she proceeds to say we have free will. I tell her. WE WERE BORN WITH SIN. I did not choose to sin. I was bound to do it. Then she says. But later in life we have a choice to accept jesus or not. She says this comment completely without looking at other angles. Therefore before we even know what or who jesus is we have no free will because their is no choice. Then i used examples. A Eskimo. Doing the best for his family. Their is no pastors or missionaries or bibles. Their is no knowledge of jesus. He does the best for his family yet the bible teaches he will go to hell. My mother preoceeded to tell me that god punshes from generation to generation and that his ancestors must have believed in another god. WTF i say. How can that be justified. Its like my great grandfather commits a crime and im punished for it. Except the punishment is extremely gruesome. THen she says Bad luck. Now i say: Their is no luck with god. He is all knowing remember. he knows what happens and allowed things to happen. I then use another example. I say what if you were all powerful and all knowing and knew your children would die the next day and had all the power to prevent it. She says she would save us. Yet she does not get the point of the example. I use another example. If your creation i.e a child was about to rob a store. You knew it was going to happen. You knew the consequences and had all the power to prevent it. She simple brushed it off and says she would stop the child......but would not except responsiblity if it happened. Another example i used was. If you knew tomorrow you would conceive a child and he would turn out to be Hitler. Killed millions etc. What would u do being all knowing all powerful. She says she would have the baby and try to stop him frim becoming hitler. To this i said. But you are all powerful. You do not need to TRY to prevent it. You CAN prevent it....But you let it happen and millions hurt. My mother seems to recognise the injustice in the ideology of the bible, yet she seemingly puts it down to devine justice. She says its all about god plan. I say why does his plan involve torture, murders, destruction. To my mother i use this example. (edited from tv's Lost). 2 brothers in africa. Guerilla forces need children to fight for them and go to the local villiage to get a boy. These to boys belong to a christian church. They men grab 1 of the brother and force him to shoot the pastor otherwise the villiage burns and everyone dies. The brother of the boy grabs the gun from his brother and shoots the pastor. The guerilla forces take the brother that did the deed and he is forced to fight, kill, murder. Their is no bibles or pastors or the word of jesus with the guerillas. The brother knowingly sacrificied his life, so his brother could live. So the town wouldnt be destroyed and the people in it be killed. He sacrifice ensured that his younger brother became a pastor and the villiage prosoured. I said now do you beleive god will send this man to hell. She said. I dont knoww, god has his own plan and i think god will save this man. But i said, according to the bible he will go to hell. Even if his sacrifice was just and 'jesus-like', our works mean nothing. Infact god thinks they are disgusting. She then proceeds to say....i dont know...i dont know.. My mother knows these things are wrong. An all knowing all powerful god lets it happen. Created everything knowing how things would turn out and did nothing. Dont tell me he sent Jesus to save us. God would not need to send his son if he didnt create the wrongs in the forst place. My mum knows this but she puts the blame on lucifer and all of us for not choosing and sinning. Everything else is to blame but the all knowing, all powerful creator. Please dont bag my mum. I love her dearly. Any comment appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interested Atheist Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Thanks, that was a good read! Without wishing to bag your mum I think it's fair to say about Christians in general that no matter how bad the situation seems, no matter how extreme, no matter how certain you are, there is one thing you must always be sure of: It wasn't God's fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 28, 2006 Author Share Posted May 28, 2006 Yup. People recognise the wrong. But refuse to place the blame. When i was christians i saw the wrong. But i managed to justify it with ludacris thoughts. Eventually my conciounce got the better of me. How can i honour something that would destory much of what and whom i care about. My friends arent Christians. This god was going..NEIGH planning to etenrally punish my friends. W..........T...........F.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 My mother in law is very similar to your mom... she went haywire when she found out about our deconversion. In fact, we had a long discussion with her a few days ago. Like your mom, she recognized the "wrong" in it, and even decided that "sincere" people of other religions who worship "the Creator" (and not demons) will go to heaven. Of course, since we betrayed God, we are still going to hell. She also decided that faith is what we need, faith that God will do the right thing. We can't understand God's ways... which I think is a cop out. Good luck with her... I hope your relationship with her isn't strained too much. My husband has had a hard time dealing with the fact that she tells him repeatedly that he's going to hell, but in some ways, I think they've gotten closer through it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayman7040 Posted May 28, 2006 Share Posted May 28, 2006 Well as a good former friend of mine, who I lost to the Jesus cult, once said to me: "Bill you just can't try to intellecualize the word of God, but just have faith." In other words he was saying we must not under any cirimstanes question the word of God and the less you think the better. Once you start thinking outside the box, is when it all starts to unravel. Once someone gets caught in the Christian tunnel vision it is often so hard to get them out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 29, 2006 Author Share Posted May 29, 2006 I was listneing 2 this song as i was reading responses and pondering christians beliefs and how either a group will only look to the inherent good and totally ignore the evil of it all while another group will recognise the evil of it and justify it with ludacris comments. Dont even get me started with those that love the idea of eternal punsihment. Anyway as i was reading and listneing to this song. I had so much built up saddened emotions. its amazing if u put the name GOD in some of the lyrics of this song. children crying cast out and neglected only with a god so cold only with a god so cold hold the hand of your best friend look into their eyes then watch god take them away some might say we've done the wrong things never worried about being me, or anyone else not a care, no concern, don't give a shit about anything I used to listen to this song as a christian and i would cry. Cry because of how i viewed myself going to heaven as my mates for life were to be left to the hands of a vengful god who would bestow no mercy on them. Its by Mudvayne- World So Cold Sorry bout random comment but was in a bit of a mood because of the pull on my emotions about something so obviously wrong a despicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosa Mystica Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Awwww...man! I just wanna hug you right now. Seriously. You've seen the injustice of an eternal hell, and a god who does *nothing* to help much of his creation- even though he's allegedly "all-powerful". Sad, isn't it? As for your mother, she has been affected by indoctrination tactics that extremists like to use. When you're brainwashed to that extent, things that make no sense to people outside the system will seem "correct" to you. I know- I've been there. That is why she can't grasp your views on matters like Hell- at least, not yet. I can see your deconversion was quite recent. I imagine you must feel quite disillusioned with Christianity. Again- I know from experience what this feels like. I've been feeling it for the past three months at least- maybe longer. If you wanna talk, I'm here for you. Always. Rosa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hey Rosa. Thanx A Lot Aye. Feelin support. This is my conversion very broadly. One day i was vulnerable, feeling down a bit. Things werent really working out at that time. Nobody tried to convert me. No pastor or anyone tried. I just opened the bible and what book did it happen to fall on. Revealtions. Holy Moly. I felt i needed to be saved from, well everything. Some of the stuff i read was beutiful, but i blindly ignored the evils i read. For weeks on weeks and sleepless nights i researched the bible and read it. It is a blur to me. So many different interpretations. Eventually i read the NDE website and then started to have liberal thoughts on christianity. But alas other interpretations scared the crap outa me into believing 'Hell'. But an incling in my mind HOPED god would save every1 in the end. During these times were tears. Anxiety. I was 16 at this time. I was going into a shell. My friends whom i loved were Sinners. Would be in hell and i coudlnt take it. Id close my eeyes in class and pray for them. My marks went down. I began to feel sick everyday. Eventually i got to this site after feeling so sickened by the stuff i read. From their was my deconversion process. I consider that just a few months ago. It was a very short amount of time from when i became a christian then when i deconverted. You have to understand i read as much as i could in these few months os sleeplessness and depression. This god was not making me feel good or love. I cant stand christians that smile and act like its all good while they beleive their many of their brothers ans sisters will burn. I cant stand it. I hate the injustice!!! Ive lost a whole portion of my teenage years as each day was a blur in that time AHR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandora Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Why do they have you as a Christian? I am confused. It looks to me like you're on your way out, if not already deconverted... so why the Christian icon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I think the main reason christianity doesn't work is because it's based on a very anthropromophisized god. You can't do that. God is either omnipotent or he/she/it isn't. You can't pick and choose what god is responsible for. Because if there is any kind of sin, you would think denying God's creation, even if it's ugly or evil, would be a major one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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