Praying

[Kurari]

I just have a hard time when someone tells me that they prayed and the next day the "answer to their prayer" happened. Its just a weird coincidence.

 

Well, there are some that think there is no such thing as coincidence

 

I can't prove it to anybody else, but I've had too many of these weird coincidences happen to me to keep brushing them off. That's just me though.

 

Actually, hypothetically, if I COULD prove that prayer works, do you think that would be welcome news to the world or would there be riots and death threats because the churches would be unhappy that they DON'T have any power over the people anymore?

 

[Knightley]

Kurari, are you a christian?

[Kurari]

Kurari, are you a christian?

 

Nope. Very deconverted. I'm just a theist now.

[Knightley]

hmm, I don't see how prayer really works. It could be that things work out eventually for everyone, and not just for xians.

[Kurari]

hmm, I don't see how prayer really works. It could be that things work out eventually for everyone, and not just for xians.

 

Well, it really depends on what you consider "working" is. If I'm having a really tough problem or I just need to connect, I'll pray and a solution will pop up to my problem or I'll just feel much better about things in general. That's "working" for me.

 

If I'm working towards something specific, as I said, it's not like placing an order at a drive-thru.

 

Lets say for example I want to get married someday. I can pray to God, "Please let that really cute guy at work that I have a crush on notice me and fall in love with me so we can get married because I KNOW he's the one for me and I know you do too."

 

Right. Why is God going to disrupt and twist another man's life just because I asked Him to? He might already have a girlfriend, or he might be gay, or he might be entirely wrong for me. The odds of God granting a request like that are slim and it certainly wouldn't be because you "were worthy enough," or because you "said so." That's just plain arrogance.

 

But if I rephrase the prayer to something like, "I would like to get married one day. Please help me with my dating endeavors, give me courage and wisdom, and lead me to the right oppertunitys to meet the kind of fair partner I am looking for. Please protect me and lead me away from disingenuine and dangerous people that don't have my best interests at heart."

 

THAT'S when I start seeing results. That guy I like at work may suddenly ask me out, or I get the courage to ask him out. Or I'll suddenly meet someone within the next couple of days that I really like. Or I won't meet anybody at all but will suddenly realize that I'm not ready to get married yet anyway. Sometimes prayers take years to manifest when it's the best time for them to happen or not at all.

 

It's not God's job to manage our lives for us. I think He/She/It is happy to help out with our dreams and goals, but God isn't going to destroy creation and reorder physics, time, freewill, and the natural laws of the universe just because someone asks. God is a partner, not an overlord.

 

Does this mean that I think everybody should do it? Or that if people do it MY way? Or that prayer IS going to work for everybody and everybody here has just been doing it wrong? No. I honestly don't care if other people pray or believe or what. You don't need to pray to make what you want manifest in your life. You don't need to believe in God for that either. You can live a perfectly happy wonderful life without it.

 

I'm defending prayer here because I remember how sick I felt when I was made to feel that I wasn't "good enough" to have my prayers answered and someone might come along who still wants to try it but feels there aren't any other options. I think it can, and does work. Praying gives some people a key to happy, healthy, peaceful lives and they shouldn't ever be made to feel that is a weakness. If it's NOT a method that works for you, then do what does. It stands to reason that if you believe we were all created differently and individual then our faiths will all be different and be individual as well. That's the whole point of faith. To do what works, not about what's right.

[Knightley]

Thank you for your post Kurari. I thought you were a liberal christian. I no longer believe that xianity is the right faith or the right path, I used to for a long time and I used to think everyone had to do it the "christian" way, including prayer, and now I just think its obscene.

 

I'm not sure about God helping us with our dreams and goals, it sounds like its something from christianity. Its interesting, I never thought that I'd walk away from christianity, and now I'm more or less an agnostic. I've had things happen and a lot of coincidences that still makes me think there's a God up there sometimes. I really can't make a definite decision about that anytime soon.

[Kurari]

Heh, I've waffled all over the place and even thought I was an Atheist for a while, but it didn't work for me. Lately I've been studying Buddhism and Zen. I like the basic message of them of "Don't go overboard, stop worrying, and enjoy life by living in the moment." I don't like to lable myself as anything, but if I have to be called something then "Theist" is about as general as it gets.

 

It was made very clear to me by others that I am not, and never will be, a christian. I still enjoy churches at christmas time and love the song "Ave Maria," but I can't follow the dogma, the Bible, or Jesus alone. The christian community doesn't want me around. And I haven't seen, heard, or felt any evidence that my soul would be in danger from this except by other human beings.

[Knightley]

I think that anything is a possibility.

 

Atheism is a possibility, zoroastrianism, christianity, islam, greek gods, etc. Since I'm not one of the "powers that be" then I don't really know what the truth is. I think people just do their best with the information they have and the experiences they have had in their lives and make a decision based on that.

 

I realized very early on that I didn't really fit in to christian churches and communities. I didn't really agree with their logic, christians overall tend to be very cookie-cutter. Even after switching to a less strict church, I realized that I didn't want to be part of what this religion has done to people throughout the ages. And I still didn't fit in to the new more liberal church that I went to.

 

I can't follow the bible or jesus either 100%, perhaps that was one of the things that led to my deconversion. I realized I couldn't live by everything that Jesus said. I couldn't take on the bible and believe by it and take it literally. I just couldn't. It just drove me crazy and made me really paranoid. I acted really irrationally, made impulse decisions, it was horrible for me and other people because I was mostly driven by my fear of going to hell. I really had it bad.

[nicoleeann]

I strongly believe in the power of positive thinking. You can both feel better and good things can happen. That is why many christians do feel good and have good luck.

I have been praying because of some medical conditions that I have.

What I have done is just say out loud (who says they can read our thoughts)

"This message is for any and all higher powers..........."

then I make the request and say thank you at the end. and I reccomend saying exactly what you want, not just "heal me" I would say-"remove all of the disease cells in my body and destroy them"

Just a thought.