Asimov Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Ok, so I hear ALL the time that God doesn't make the choices for us, we make em. I also hear that knowing the future doesn't mean that you don't make a choice. That is, determinism is not mutually exclusive from choice, in regards to God's omniscience. HOWEVER! If God were to have never created us, we would not have made those choices. God being the prime mover, the First Causer, the Big Cheeser, is the cause of everything happening, is the cause of every choice being made. If we accept causality, that is. Second problem with Free Will and omniscience: Predestination, Divine Will, Ultimate Plan. We hear these all the time. If God created the universe with a plan as to how everything is going to work, then obviously free will cannot be true, because every choice we made would be a part of that plan, our choices are contingent on what God wants, and God creating us. So...yea...nothing new...I just needed some critique on my logic here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpooky Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I hate free will debates with a burning passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 What the fuck does "free will" mean? Is it anything like "free willy"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 I hate free will debates with a burning passion. I know, me too....but they're so darn confusing, and I like to understand this sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 What the fuck does "free will" mean? Is it anything like "free willy"? I think when Christians use it, they mean the ability to make a choice without God's influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slayer-2004 Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 It doesnt matter . I pointed out a long time ago that even if we do have free will in no way does it justify the absurd punishments god has layed down . If we dont choose the true path we burn forever because he loves us . Saying that free will somehow justifies this is like saying its ok for your daughter to get raped and murdered because you didnt guess that a red monkey is behind door #2 , instead of #1 . Its retarded , illogical , immoral , immature , assinine , arrogant , dipshited , and just overall completely absurd to assume that you deserve some reward if what you believe about the cosmos is true and everyone else who didnt guess the magic number correctly deserves some kind of eternal punishment . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I think when Christians use it, they mean the ability to make a choice without God's influence. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So, if gods don't exist, then we have free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 So, if gods don't exist, then we have free will? I don't use the concept of free will in regards to me making choices without God. Everything around me, from my own genetics, to my environment, to other individuals influence the choices that I make, and help determine them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spamandham Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 I don't use the concept of free will in regards to me making choices without God. Everything around me, from my own genetics, to my environment, to other individuals influence the choices that I make, and help determine them. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If gods are involved, then you don't have free will. If gods are not involved, then you still don't have free will. Hmmmm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dio Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asimov Posted May 18, 2005 Author Share Posted May 18, 2005 If gods are involved, then you don't have free will. If gods are not involved, then you still don't have free will. Hmmmm.... Free will is a religious concept, spam. With no God, there is no reason to say you have free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted May 18, 2005 Share Posted May 18, 2005 Free will is a religious concept, spam. With no God, there is no reason to say you have free will. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exactly. If there is a God who knows the future, and has the power to influence the future, then humans cannot be responsible for their doings. So Christians need to claim, that humans do have a free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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