Fears Of Hell And Damnation

[Knightley]

I'm finding that as I go longer on my exchristian path or my new life in true freedom, the fears of

god's judgment, hell, and damnation lessen. It helps that I avoid things from my xian days like certain websites, literature, media, propaganda of any kind, etc. The only xian thing that I still have is music but since I'm a music freak I like to keep some of the cds even though the music has no meaning. Most of the music I am keeping is pop/rock. Yeah, yeah, I'm weird, I'm a hypocrite, well at least I'm admitting it.

 

But things are getting better there. I don't care anymore if I'm going to hell, if I'm not following god's will and its great not having those fears held over my head. Even if it happened to be true well I don't care or even want to worship any god who threatens hell as "justice" for me to follow him. Its great not to worry about pleasing god and disappointing him at any second. Not worrying about trying to make myself believe in things like the birth of jesus christ and the whole nativity xmas story. I no longer worry about satan "getting to me" and being brough down by the "enemy" and other stupid shit. I mean why should anyone be scared of anyone invisible. Its just stupid and idiotic.

 

I hate organized religion. I guess I still have some anger left over, but yeah I hate how I had to hear over and over in church that I needed to be saved and that Jesus forgave me from my sins, and how I never really felt anything except my own emotions. I hated hearing about the blood of jesus washing my sins away, and what happend at "calvary" and how people will be doomed to all hell. UGH. I hate the idea of hell. Its disgusting.

 

So how have you dealt with your fears of hell and damnation over time? Does it get better? Has anyone ever gotten to the point where you no longer have doubts about hell creeping up on you because you've been out of xianity for so long?

[bob]

I had the great fortune to discover the writings of Robert Ingersoll not long after I left the faith. His thoughts on hell really helped me overcome what little fear I had left.

 

Nothing could add to the horror of hell, except the presence of its creator, God. While I have life, as long as I draw breath, I shall deny with all my strength, and hate with every drop of my blood, this infinite lie. I would not for my life destroy one star of human hope, but I want it so that when a poor woman rocks the cradle and sings a lullaby to the dimpled darling, she will not be compelled to believe that ninety-nine chances in a hundred she is raising kindling wood for hell.

 

If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men.... What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena.--Robert G. Ingersoll

[AgnosticBob AtheistPants]

Nothing could add to the horror of hell, except the presence of its creator, God. While I have life, as long as I draw breath, I shall deny with all my strength, and hate with every drop of my blood, this infinite lie. I would not for my life destroy one star of human hope, but I want it so that when a poor woman rocks the cradle and sings a lullaby to the dimpled darling, she will not be compelled to believe that ninety-nine chances in a hundred she is raising kindling wood for hell.

 

If there is a God who will damn his children forever, I would rather go to hell than to go to heaven and keep the society of such an infamous tyrant. I make my choice now. I despise that doctrine. It has covered the cheeks of this world with tears. It has polluted the hearts of children, and poisoned the imaginations of men.... What right have you, sir, Mr. clergyman, you, minister of the gospel to stand at the portals of the tomb, at the vestibule of eternity, and fill the future with horror and with fear? I do not believe this doctrine, neither do you. If you did, you could not sleep one moment. Any man who believes it, and has within his breast a decent, throbbing heart, will go insane. A man who believes that doctrine and does not go insane has the heart of a snake and the conscience of a hyena.--Robert G. Ingersoll

 

Oh wow. That is just fantastic! I'm going to have to find some of his stuff.

 

You know, I have had fears of hell my entire life. I've feared death as well. I've suffered night terrors for as long as I can remember, waking up absolutely terrified, thinking I was dead and in hell. Yes, I had these as a CHRISTIAN. The funny thing is...since I've left the christian faith in the pigstye, they've gradually decreased. I'm now to the point where I haven't awakened with my heart in my throat for almost a year.

 

I still occasionally get nervous about it and wonder "What if it's true?" Then I find something like the writings of Mr. Ingersoll above and am reminded of what a terrible god it is that would create such a place and then throw his own children into it.

 

So if it IS true, he doesn't have to throw me in. I'll gladly jump.

[Kurari]

The more I thought about it, the more it became clear to me that it's impossible for a Hell to exist. It's existance would mean that god is not omnipotent, nor is god's love unconditional.

 

The universe would not be able to run with a god that was not omnipotent or unconditionally loving. God cannot step all over his/her/it's own laws put in place without destroying the whole thing and that's exactly what Christianity asks it to do. So I really don't worry at all anymore like I used to. It's incredibly liberating.

[LosingMyReligion]

But things are getting better there. I don't care anymore if I'm going to hell, if I'm not following god's will and its great not having those fears held over my head. Even if it happened to be true well I don't care or even want to worship any god who threatens hell as "justice" for me to follow him. Its great not to worry about pleasing god and disappointing him at any second. Not worrying about trying to make myself believe in things like the birth of jesus christ and the whole nativity xmas story. I no longer worry about satan "getting to me" and being brough down by the "enemy" and other stupid shit. I mean why should anyone be scared of anyone invisible. Its just stupid and idiotic.

 

 

Well, I was afraid of Kevin Bacon in 'Hollow Man,' but I don't think he counts...haha.

 

 

 

So how have you dealt with your fears of hell and damnation over time? Does it get better? Has anyone ever gotten to the point where you no longer have doubts about hell creeping up on you because you've been out of xianity for so long?

 

 

It is definitely waning as I go along(much to my surprise). I've been a full deconvert for nearly three months now(had doubts for well over a year).

 

Admittedly, I still find myself, unconsciously, dreading June 6, 2006...lol. Living with, and around, fundies still does a mind job on a fresh deconvert...But rationality kicks in now. It isn't 666, it's 6606. And regardless of the date shit happens in life, period.

The people who got killed in the Tsunami and Hurricane Katrina were not bad people(as fatass, pompous, SUV driving, Christians would have you believe). New Orleans' live nearly 100 feet below sea level, and Sri Lankan's have had Tsunamis prior to the advent of CNN. The moral of the story is that tragedies happen, and they will continue to occur...It has nothing to do with a story book coming to life. It is nature.

 

 

Everyday I am one step closer to complete and total healing. I feel my fear being replaced with the courage to be a fully functional adult, for the first time in my life.

 

At this point I have made the conscientous choice to divorce myself from religion; not the concept of God, just religion. I realize that, emotionally and intellectually, Christianity was very detrimental to my well being. It stifled me. And at this crucial juncture of my life I am alleviating all things, and people, that bring me down. To be honest, not feeling like I need to pray everyday(In Jesus' name), and watch all of my words(for fear of heavenly reprisal) is a load off my back. I'm no longer having the anxiety attacks about "Missing the rapture" or "being Lukewarm."

I am a very moral person, and I'm still conservative, in my values system, for the most part. Not being a Christian doesn't make you a reprobate piece of garbage. It just means you don't believe in The Bible. Infact, I still hold true to the universal mores and folkways of the Bible(thou shalt not kill, Fear not, love thy neighbor, and etc). Infact, I think had my mother read me biblical stories in the context of just being STORIES, and lamenting upon the moral, I would have a better understanding and appreciation...The shit isn't real, but it can be learned from.

 

As it is, Whenever I catch those old fears sneaking back up I...

 

1.) Log onto exchristian.net and read a thread that addresses those irrationalities(or post one myself)...

 

2.) Examine where the fear is coming from. Like I used to be terribly afraid of the Rapture, until I realized that...

A.) The Catholic church does not believe in the rapture

B.) The concept of the Rapture was devised a little over 100 years ago by a Pentacostal preacher.

C.) The entire Bible makes no sense whatsoever...

 

And most important of all, why would I serve an imperfect tyrant who spends his time devising diabolical ways to send us all to hell...But he loves us?

 

More importantly, I don't think Hell would be a bad place. Actually, I think hell would be great. There would be so many great: writers, philosophers, civil rights activists(Ghandi will be in hell), porn stars, gay bars, and clubs(which would be packed, and I'd definitely have no shortage of dates), Hollywood celebs, and etc...

Heaven would have all of those televangelists and serial murderers who gave their life to christ prior to execution...Why would I want to hang around them for Eternity?

 

Anyway...

 

I really used to hate people like George Carlin and Maragaret Cho because of their stances against the Church. Now, I find solace in them. I literally go and rent their DVD's whenever I start obsessing over Christianity. As mean as it sounds I love to hear people trash the Christian right. It doesn't have to be factually based, just to hear it makes me feel really good...And not so alone in my belief.

 

Most important of all, I use my common sense and intellect(something the church discourages).

I read books that don't have a Christian slant(ie, the purpose driven life...BLEAH. My life has purpose without a 2,000 year old rule book), and I love to learn about other faiths.

 

And the most important thing that I've learned through this experience is that it is okay to believe in myself. Self affimation was frowned upon in my church, but now I gladly hold true to the power within. I believe that we all have god within us and we aren't depraved beasts who needed the intervention of a masochistic God/man to "save" us.

 

Right now, I'm in flux as far as what I choose to believe in goes...I still consider myself a very spiritual person. But the difference is that spirituality isn't going to run my life.

 

As I go from day to day I often wonder how in the hell I could ever have believed in that crap. True, I am still deprogramming myself from the Christian failsafe button: FEAR. Afterall, I was raised in the church and was as evangelical fundie as they come...So it is going to take a little time for me to completely exorcise the demon(pun totally intended)...But I am well on my way, and further along than I thought I'd be.

[Lycorth]

So how have you dealt with your fears of hell and damnation over time? Does it get better? Has anyone ever gotten to the point where you no longer have doubts about hell creeping up on you because you've been out of xianity for so long?

 

I just let them die out naturally. They did take a little while to taper off, but something so deeply ingrained usually isn't done away with overnight. Fear that some god is going to torture you for all eternity can indeed be a paralyzing notion; a dear friend is still much like that, and I wish I could just snap my fingers and bring her and her husband out of that sick deathcult. He's ok, but she's a divorcee and she's still paranoid beyond reason that she'll go to Hell because she had to get a divorce - nevermind that it was to get out of an abusive relationship. Yahooweh™ doesn't have any loopholes in place for bad marriages.

 

But the fear of Hell tapered off rather quickly. As soon as I really got to understand that the god who invented Hell doesn't exist, then Hell doesn't either. It took time, but I was able to just let the fear of Hell die with a whimper

[Amethyst]

 

Just wanted to say I am a Christian who doesn't believe in hell, and you don't need to worry or wonder whether it is true. It is not.

 

Doesn't matter since the Bible isn't true, either. It's fiction.

[Jedah]

It was the problem of hell amongst other things that actually contributed to my coming to the conclusion that it is all fiction. The idea that an all loving god punishes fallible beings for choosing the wrong faith based religion is almost as absurd as the poor arguments apologists come up with in their attempt to defend it. God would be a bit of a prick if he cared about something so trivial.

 

Just wanted to say I am a Christian who doesn't believe in hell, and you don't need to worry or wonder whether it is true. It is not.

 

Here's a verse in which God says it never occurred to him to do what the Canaanite deities were asking people to do: burn their children. Jeremiah 32:35 - http://bible.cc/jeremiah/32-35.htm

 

Here's one of many clear promises of a future happy earth for ALL people: Isaiah 25:6-8 http://bible.cc/isaiah/25-8.htm

 

The mainstream church is just dead wrong on this hell-fire idea. No wonder God is holding the Church accountable and preparing to judge those institutions (not the people -- God loves everybody).

 

Ingersoll was right. Edwards was wrong.

 

One problem, if you are right and they are wrong then that means all of those priests and other various religious folk are wrong about what they think god is directly speaking into their ears. This means you admit that god really isnt speaking to them and thus you create a theological problem just as big - you are admitting that god is not answering those who ask, and is instead allowing his followers to decieve themselves, and while I cant recall the exact verse Im pretty sure that goes directly against gods promises.

[Amethyst]

It was the problem of hell amongst other things that actually contributed to my coming to the conclusion that it is all fiction. The idea that an all loving god punishes fallible beings for choosing the wrong faith based religion is almost as absurd as the poor arguments apologists come up with in their attempt to defend it. God would be a bit of a prick if he cared about something so trivial.

 

Same here. Completely agree.

 

One problem, if you are right and they are wrong then that means all of those priests and other various religious folk are wrong about what they think god is directly speaking into their ears. This means you admit that god really isnt speaking to them and thus you create a theological problem just as big - you are admitting that god is not answering those who ask, and is instead allowing his followers to decieve themselves, and while I cant recall the exact verse Im pretty sure that goes directly against gods promises.

 

Excellent point.

[Knightley]

I still have this fear that it may all be true despite logic to the contrary and that somehow I will be proven that I'm wrong. Sometimes I just panic and act irrationally, I honestly think that sometimes I'm going to have a breakdown because I'm just scared of going to hell when I die. Ugh, I really hate thinking and believing this way and although things are getting better, something, I don't know, just tells me that it just might be possible. Its still there the fear that this god is going to punish me.

[qadeshet]

Are you willing to serve a cruel and vengeful god who wound send even one of his children to suffer eternal punishment? If the answer is no, then you must be willing to accept responsibility for your decision to reject this monstrous god.

If there is a Hell, I would rather go there than serve Yahweh or his idiot son. The Bible is just a collection of old myths and fables, written by men. Jesus never existed. And Hell is for heroes.

[Knightley]

Right, you make a really good point, unfortunately the opposition uses very convincing propaganda. I am not sure about anything anymore, I'm just taking it one step at a time. I can't get over the hell hurdle and that's what's pretty much keeping away from christianity, as well as the behavior of christians and logic.

[Jedah]

I still have this fear that it may all be true despite logic to the contrary and that somehow I will be proven that I'm wrong. Sometimes I just panic and act irrationally, I honestly think that sometimes I'm going to have a breakdown because I'm just scared of going to hell when I die. sad.gif Ugh, I really hate thinking and believing this way and although things are getting better, something, I don't know, just tells me that it just might be possible. Its still there the fear that this god is going to punish me.

 

I sort of know what you mean in an odd way, since I grew up with it being told to me that all nonbelievers were heading to the fryer. There were three things that eventually led to me accepting that the idea of hell just didnt deserve time in my head.

 

1- The obviousness that hell is unjust. Whenever you feel fear of it forming up inside you, you have to get into the habit of immediatly reminding yourself that the idea an all loving, all knowing, perfect god would do such a thing is rediculous to the point where the proposition could practically be labeled with every single logical fallacy in the book...and more.

 

2- Remember, your better then this shit ! Christians arent the only ones claiming hell for nonbelievers. The fact of the matter is no matter what you believe there will be some arrogant jerk out there who thinks you need to go to hell for it. Dont let yourself get sucked into pascals game of placing your bets. As an agnostic, I think that if there is a god, the deists have it correct. Assuming god exists he most likely doesnt want us to know about it, and most likely doesnt care about our beliefs after we die.

 

3. Like said before, if its true and god really is a jerk and we just cant see it, would you want to worship this guy ? Forcing people to believe a specific ideal about the afterlife is rediculous. Forcing humans to place faith in what its like to be dead is like forcing a 3 year old to come up with the perfect financial plan for the rest of their life. If god is mentally disabled to the point where he cant see how this fails, I think were screwed no matter what we believe. If thats the case the true choices are not heaven or hell...its either burning or kissing the ass of someone who doesnt even begin to deserve it for all eternity. You would be going to hell either way

 

 

That being said, if you want to go deeper on this subject feel free to pm me !

[HadouKen24]

Any deity who doesn't SPECIFICALLY empirically prove his reality and which religion he endorses is a sadist or an idiot for thinking all "true seekers" will find the "true" path.

 

Nah, that's only a problem if said deity condemns people for not believing in him or following his awy.

[Vortex]

As I've posted elsewhere, I sill have a vestigal fear of hell and it does keep me awake nights.

 

As for the 6/6/06 date. Well, I was born on 6/6/66 ~ try living with that as a kid when the origianl Omen was popular.

 

As time has gone by, my fear has lessened. And, this Tuesday I'll be partying thank you very much. (After an interview for a new job.)

 

I also enjoyed the Ingersoll quotation. Think I'll copy and paste that into something to keep handy...

[dibby]

How will Heaven be Heaven if there are people you love in Hell? This is what I ask christians. I asked this in an email to a lady from the living waters website. She simply replied that "God would be enough". And I replied, "It is not enough for me". If christianity lived up to it,s ideal of "God is Love" such a pernicious doctrine of hell would simply fall apart. If you have love in you hell as a place is impossible.

[diggin]

It was the problem of hell amongst other things that actually contributed to my coming to the conclusion that it is all fiction. The idea that an all loving god punishes fallible beings for choosing the wrong faith based religion is almost as absurd as the poor arguments apologists come up with in their attempt to defend it. God would be a bit of a prick if he cared about something so trivial.

 

Just wanted to say I am a Christian who doesn't believe in hell, and you don't need to worry or wonder whether it is true. It is not.

 

Here's a verse in which God says it never occurred to him to do what the Canaanite deities were asking people to do: burn their children. Jeremiah 32:35 - http://bible.cc/jeremiah/32-35.htm

 

Here's one of many clear promises of a future happy earth for ALL people: Isaiah 25:6-8 http://bible.cc/isaiah/25-8.htm

 

The mainstream church is just dead wrong on this hell-fire idea. No wonder God is holding the Church accountable and preparing to judge those institutions (not the people -- God loves everybody).

 

Ingersoll was right. Edwards was wrong.

 

One problem, if you are right and they are wrong then that means all of those priests and other various religious folk are wrong about what they think god is directly speaking into their ears. This means you admit that god really isnt speaking to them and thus you create a theological problem just as big - you are admitting that god is not answering those who ask, and is instead allowing his followers to decieve themselves, and while I cant recall the exact verse Im pretty sure that goes directly against gods promises.

 

Good point. I believe that when the Bible says "seek, and you will find", that is true. I think that when it says "he who comes to God must believe that he is, and that he rewards those who diligently seek him". I am confident that is true too.

 

Sincere folks who walk their talk will receive the promised blessings. What we have in Christian history, though is a church-state system that was described in one allegory as "tares" in a wheat-field. I'm talking about the masses, the ones who don't really seek and therefore don't really find. Jesus said, "in that day many will say to me, Lord, didn't I do many wonderful works in your name?" and he will say, "I never knew you." There are a lot of folks using Jesus' name who aren't really serving the Lord, they're in an army that they assume is his army, but it isn't.

 

Note he doesn't say, "it's too late, you're going to burn forever now." He simply says, "Your expectations were false, and if you had paid closer attention you wouldn't have followed bad leaders an an organization I never authorized." Soon, he'll go on to say, "So learn that lesson ... and now, take advantage of this eternal life I'm offering you on earth. I love the whole world."

 

The end of the Christian era is not the end of the opportunity for people to come to a relationship with God, it is the beginning. It's called a harvest, and it is a time of dealing with all those who claimed to be following Christ, to see what they're really made of. Up to that time, "Christianity" and the other dark forces of the earth were a useful smokescreen to keep all but a few from finding God at all.

 

That's why at the end of the age, the harvest, Jesus speaks to the whole "Christian" army which is really serving a false premise, and says, "come out of her (false religion), my people." That's what Christians are supposed to be doing now -- coming out of the church because it's false. Some are coming out and actively pursuing true understanding, and re-examining traditions. That's why there are House Churches, and Emergent churches, and lots of very interesting new developments.

 

Others are simply dropping the uniform and leaving the army. That's fine too. At least they aren't sending their money in support of the False Church any more. (In ancient Babylon, a picture of the modern "Christian" geopolitical system, the way they got into that impregnable city was by diverting the water of the Euphrates river around it, so that the water level dropped, and the invading army could march right in under the bronze river gates. In Revelation, the waters where the false church sits are called "peoples and nations and languages". So drying up the waters is equivalent to a loss of popular support).

 

Those who aren't really developing the personal fruitage Jesus is after stay in their "bundles" (denominations) and are getting stacked in piles where the troubles of the next few decades will tend to cause them to drop all religious pretences. God isn't going to torment them or kill them. He's interested in teaching everyone whatever it is they need to learn. Many Christians are thinking if they could get control of the government they could "save America". I have no doubt they'll get a chance to try, and the end result will be that everyone will get some good lessons out of their failure.

[LosingMyReligion]

For some reason whenever I chat on EXC my hell fears are alleviated. Perhaps it's knowing that all of you are going to hell with me...haha

[starelda]

The doubts about hell are fading now. I tried getting away from Christianity at the beginning of this year and the fear of hell and the desire to cling onto familiar beliefs kept me back. But such fears have been fading since that time which has enabled me to make my getaway.

[Knightley]

For some reason whenever I chat on EXC my hell fears are alleviated. Perhaps it's knowing that all of you are going to hell with me...haha

 

Well now, with us there with you, hell won't be boring.

 

 

 

I still have this fear that it may all be true despite logic to the contrary and that somehow I will be proven that I'm wrong. Sometimes I just panic and act irrationally, I honestly think that sometimes I'm going to have a breakdown because I'm just scared of going to hell when I die. sad.gif Ugh, I really hate thinking and believing this way and although things are getting better, something, I don't know, just tells me that it just might be possible. Its still there the fear that this god is going to punish me.

 

I sort of know what you mean in an odd way, since I grew up with it being told to me that all nonbelievers were heading to the fryer. There were three things that eventually led to me accepting that the idea of hell just didnt deserve time in my head.

 

1- The obviousness that hell is unjust. Whenever you feel fear of it forming up inside you, you have to get into the habit of immediatly reminding yourself that the idea an all loving, all knowing, perfect god would do such a thing is rediculous to the point where the proposition could practically be labeled with every single logical fallacy in the book...and more.

 

2- Remember, your better then this shit ! Christians arent the only ones claiming hell for nonbelievers. The fact of the matter is no matter what you believe there will be some arrogant jerk out there who thinks you need to go to hell for it. Dont let yourself get sucked into pascals game of placing your bets. As an agnostic, I think that if there is a god, the deists have it correct. Assuming god exists he most likely doesnt want us to know about it, and most likely doesnt care about our beliefs after we die.

 

3. Like said before, if its true and god really is a jerk and we just cant see it, would you want to worship this guy ? Forcing people to believe a specific ideal about the afterlife is rediculous. Forcing humans to place faith in what its like to be dead is like forcing a 3 year old to come up with the perfect financial plan for the rest of their life. If god is mentally disabled to the point where he cant see how this fails, I think were screwed no matter what we believe. If thats the case the true choices are not heaven or hell...its either burning or kissing the ass of someone who doesnt even begin to deserve it for all eternity. You would be going to hell either way

 

 

That being said, if you want to go deeper on this subject feel free to pm me !

 

I think you're right. I just don't give a flying fuck anymore about the "right path," its the right path that drove me crazy. It made my life miserable, and even when I did my best as a christian, somehow I got the feeling that I would end up going to hell anyway, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. I don't understand how any god can ask a human being to choose one belief as the "right one" out of many that exist in the world, who claim the very same things. That just doesn't seem fair or right to me. Its cruel. I want to enjoy my life and not worry about hell.