Knightley Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I was thinking of how religion has often held society and people back. Because of peoples fears in history in certain centuries, our science, medicine, and other fields didn't advance. People used to even think that bathing was sinful. I was watching the History Channel and they were covering the years of the black plague in Europe. In one of the segments they were talking about how people would have public demonstrations and even "flog" themselves as christ was flogged in order to take in the punishment for sins or whatever, and that by doing that they hoped to relieve themselves from the disease and for the black plague to leave their towns and communities. Then all those years between xian and muslims in Europe fighting each other, crusades, etc. Now I'm thinking that religion is holding us back in the U.S. in many ways, one of the ways is stem sell research. No this isn't a debate about that but if you want to talk about it go ahead, I just wanted to give an example. Another example is the right to die or assisted suicide, legal term Euthanasia. Its legal in The Netherlands but not here and I just wonder of how much religion is really holding us back and we don't really realize it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Knightley, good points you bring up here. I do think that 'religion' has done so much harm to societies. How many wars alone? Now that this site has enlightened me, I've seen the dysfunction that fundamentalist Christianity has pervasively done too. *sigh* However, don't you think most all spiritual teachers have contributed quite positively? I think many have introduced wonderful 'principles' to facilitate more peaceful internal states. Ironically, IMO, it was their intentions to avoid these examples you have pointed out. It just seems these spiritual teachers' influence causes over zealous inclinations in people to then think they now have the ultimate Truth, they become intolerant to other perspectives, and choose to have their ideas dominate societies... and seem to use these spiritual teachings as a springboard into their own agenda. Probably this has happened most obviously from the Abraham derived sects... Jewish, Christians, and Muslims. Am I wrong to assume Judaism to a lesser degree, as at least... they don't seem to prosyletize? What caused the Christians and Muslims to aggressively demand conversion to their persuasions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trashy Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 What caused the Christians and Muslims to aggressively demand conversion to their persuasions? Well, for Christians it's things like "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me." Not much wiggle room there. I believe the Koran has a few mentions of killing the infidels in there somewhere too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I like the bumper sticker one of my co-workers has on his car. Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlerman Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I like the bumper sticker one of my co-workers has on his car. Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich. A modern way of saying what Marx did in stating, "religion is the opiate of the masses". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I find the idea that religion is harmful to be ignorant and uninformed. Specific religions have been harmful, but even they have their harmless sects. Many of the human race's greatest thinkers came from societies that the dictionary would label "religious" - but then again, the dictionary doesn't consider all religions to be like Xianity, nor that Xianity is the only religion. Until someone can actually offer some evidence as to all religions being equally and greatly harmful to human civilization, people need to pull their heads out of their asses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 What caused the Christians and Muslims to aggressively demand conversion to their persuasions? Well, for Christians it's things like "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father except by me." Not much wiggle room there. I believe the Koran has a few mentions of killing the infidels in there somewhere too. Trashy, it seems that way... with all the spin on things. Although I don't necessarily think that is the case with the initial movements, of either religion. I think Jesus was saying his teachings were the way to have the will to thrive and survive, life, and the way to attain power and control over our own life. I still maintain that Jesus had a very Buddhist belief, however, not the only spiritual teachings he embraced. Muhammad, from what I've read, was a very peaceful guy too. He seemed to avoid war, except in the case of a fraudulent treaty... where the other party agreed to peace, and then conspired a sneak attack... or something like that. These fundamentalist just ran wild with these teachings to perpetrate their own causes, IMO. If you think about it, how did they come to take St. Nicholas to Santa Claus? Commercialization? The present story of St. Nicholas has basically evolved to be nothing like the original one. Somewhere, someone's agenda, of both these religions, were to make everyone believe that necessarily Jesus/Muhammad was the only one. Could it have had political purposes to unite their people with diverse belief systems, perhaps against their enemies? Maybe that's why they started religious holidays? I find the idea that religion is harmful to be ignorant and uninformed. Varokhar, what would you say to the strict adherence to a particular 'dogma', with intolerance to others' ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Varokhar, what would you say to the strict adherence to a particular 'dogma', with intolerance to others' ideas? Gee, I dunno - it's dumb? What would you say to the opinion that "Xianity" and "religion" are exclusively synonymous, as some people around here seem to insist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest revpo Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Manmade religions are dangerous, they use the believers after indoctrination to do anything commanded...they also cause WARS among men because of their beliefs... revpo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 What would you say to the opinion that "Xianity" and "religion" are exclusively synonymous, as some people around here seem to insist? OK, you win... I get your point. I do think that 'spirituality' is different than a dogma that seems attached to organized religions... that says one must adhere to a certain 'interpretation' of spiritual teachings... or you can't be on the 'right side'. Sometimes being on the 'right side' means you get to live/be accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Manmade religions are dangerous, they use the believers after indoctrination to do anything commanded...they also cause WARS among men because of their beliefs... revpo All religions are man-made. Humans make them to honor what they feel is divine. The problem only lies in dogmatic religions, or in religions that are turned into dogmatic ones by overly-zealous followers. Good religion is open-ended and non-dogmatic, as well as de-centralized. OK, you win... I get your point. I do think that 'spirituality' is different than a dogma that seems attached to organized religions... that says one must adhere to a certain 'interpretation' of spiritual teachings... or you can't be on the 'right side'. Sometimes being on the 'right side' means you get to live/be accepted. Again, that only really applies to the dogmatic religions, ie, the Abrahamic cults. And even they have their ultra-liberalized sects. A little organization of belief and spirituality isn't a bad thing - it's human nature. But taking things too far into the realm of dogmatizing and absolutism is the problem. It's only those facets of certain religions - and not the idea of religion overall - which is the measurable problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notasheep Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 I don't think it's THE enemy, but certainly AN enemy. One more reason to split ourselves into groups and kill whoever's "not like us". wrong religion, wrong tribe, wrong political idealogy, whatever. Get rid of religion, and we'll find other reasons to have wars, etc. It's human nature. Mankind is Man's Worst Enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Mankind is Man's Worst Enemy. Heh - you said it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poonis Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Here is one example how fundamentalist christianity is malevolent to the individual: Fundamentalist Christian Bob has been told by his denomination that Jesus Christ is returning soon (the Second Coming), but no one knows the day or time. Following this, the old Earth will be swept away. Bob believes this for ten years. In those ten years, it is obvious to Bob that the time has only come closer and closer to the Second Coming. Since Bob believes the return of Christ is imminent, and the Earth he knows will soon be gone, all is for naught. Bob begins to let his life fall apart. He fails paying bills, acquires debts, lets his health go, and his relationships with non-christians and social responsibility go out the window. This is all because Bob was first told, and then chose to believe, that Jesus Christ is coming soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Here is one example how fundamentalist christianity is malevolent to the individual: Fundamentalist Christian Bob has been told by his denomination that Jesus Christ is returning soon (the Second Coming), but no one knows the day or time. Following this, the old Earth will be swept away. Bob believes this for ten years. In those ten years, it is obvious to Bob that the time has only come closer and closer to the Second Coming. Since Bob believes the return of Christ is imminent, and the Earth he knows will soon be gone, all is for naught. Bob begins to let his life fall apart. He fails paying bills, acquires debts, lets his health go, and his relationships with non-christians and social responsibility go out the window. This is all because Bob was first told, and then chose to believe, that Jesus Christ is coming soon. Ah, but they have coverage for this. Because no man knows the hour, they are to continue business as usual, lest they be as the servant who took what the master gave him and buried it (out of fear of what the master would do to him if he lost it) rather than investing it as the other two did. The master returns and kicks the little guys ass right off the farm for being lazy. (That loving compassionate master) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I was watching the History Channel and they were covering the years of the black plague in Europe. In one of the segments they were talking about how people would have public demonstrations and even "flog" themselves as christ was flogged in order to take in the punishment for sins or whatever, and that by doing that they hoped to relieve themselves from the disease and for the black plague to leave their towns and communities. There's still flogging going on, here, in some of our smallest towns, especially in the south. The event is widely publicized, and seen as a traditional touch of local flavour and a touristical attraction: people go around the streets, pushing on their bodies some sponges they've filled up with needles, and drawing blood. Lots of people come to see them, the flagellants. Religion is toxic all right. However, When I first saw this thread, I thought it was named "Religion, the enema of mankind" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I don't see Religion as the bad guy, humans invented the religion, humans use religion for good and bad, and humans act evil or good. Even if we managed to erradicate our world from all current religions, new ones would come. I think it's in our nature to make up fiction and believe in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scitsofreaky Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 I don't see Religion as the bad guy, humans invented the religion, humans use religion for good and bad, and humans act evil or good.I agree. It is sort of like guns don't kill people, people kill people. Religions are concepts, and concepts cannot do anything. When was the last time you saw the religion kill anyone? Religion doesn't kill people, people kill people. Even if we managed to erradicate our world from all current religions, new ones would come. I think it's in our nature to make up fiction and believe in it. As long as there are unknowns, there will be religions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Even if we managed to erradicate our world from all current religions, new ones would come. I think it's in our nature to make up fiction and believe in it. Religion thinks up fiction and believes it. Science thinks up fiction and creates it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Well, have anyone seen any super strings lately? (The strings I have tend to break, so I wondered if there were some better ones out there....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanda Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Well, have anyone seen any super strings lately? (The strings I have tend to break, so I wondered if there were some better ones out there....) Have you checked by the 'worm holes'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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