Artur Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightley Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 great points, where in the bible does it say word for word exactly that jesus or god wants to have a personal relationship with us? I've never seen such a verse, there are lots of sentimental verses as well as cruel hellish verses, but nowhere have I seen that god wants a personal relatioship with all of his human creatures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInPA Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Well said, Artur! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lycorth Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 That is indeed so true. That is one of the things I hated most about Xianity, the urge to have this "personal relationship" with Jeezus. Being Catholic for most of my time as a Xian, we usually didn't hear much about this personal relationship business, but instead got hours of spiel about how we can literally visit Jeezus in a box at our local church, where he lives in the form of a cracker I mean what, is Jeezus going to come down here and play cards with me? Have a beer, go to the nudie bar, DP my fiancee with me? What kind of personal relationship are we talking about? To me, I've always seen it as an appeal to emotions, and people, especially in the heavily Protestantized communities where this notion has its roots, really eat it up. Let's face it, Protestant Xianity is some of the most pussified Xianity on the face of the earth. Those wimpy churches, that breezy, wispy religious art, their sissy services and spineless presentation of Jeezus - little wonder they push so hard the notion to have a nice, squishy, personal touchy-feely relationship with their god and best buddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverend AtheiStar Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 You have a personal relationship with nothing. It's like a long distance relationship where you pick up the phone and go through the motions of having a conversation but never dial a number. All you hear is a dial tone and speak over it. lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 This thread begs the question... If Christianity were not so pervasive would people be certifiably insane for carrying on a "personal relationship" with Jesus. If you saw some homeless guy saying that he had a personal relationship with a talking bear named bob he'd be thrown into a mental institution. The more I think about it the more I realize how nuts Christianity is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 It's interesting that when our kids are young, if they would invent an "invisible friend", we would encourage them to snap out of it, to make them understand this "friend" doesn't exist, but is just imaginary. (And most of the time the kids knows that, they're just playing, but parents freak out and think it's wrong and scary!) But then, the same parents have nooooo problem to introduce another imaginary friend, the same one they have themselves, and even encourage the kid to talk to this "friend" and have a "relationship" with it. -edit- I have real experience, first hand, seing this happene. While in Church, I had some friends that were fundies, just like me, one of their boys had an imaginary friend. And my friends took the boy to get help, both "spiritual" and psychological. But then, no one ever thought about that they, just as anyone in church, would take the boy to Sunday school, and let him hear about Jebuz "you're personal invisible friend you can talk to"!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayman7040 Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 See that man posed so seductively to your left? Jesus does indeed talk to him, so you guys are wrong, all wrong. How else would we of this great nation know with all certainty that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath because of the homosexuals? And Jesus is always telling Pat to keep those massive fundraising efforts for the 700 Club in full swing. I love Pat so much he gives me so much comic relief. Arthur, All joking aside that was an awsome post. You made some great points I've never seen covered regaurding the so called "Personal relationship with Jesus." How the fuck can you have a personal relationship with a non speaking, non existing being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Personal relationship with Jesus = Delusions and hearing voices in your head = Inability to distinguish fantasy from reality, multiple personality disorder, psychosis, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artur Posted June 4, 2006 Author Share Posted June 4, 2006 * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japedo Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I know many people who state this same bullshit. And another thing, if the Lawd tells them to do something, they will with absolute conviction follow thru with what ever the imaginary voice told them. If it turns out to be the wrong thing, they attribute it to being mislead or deceived by Satan. Pretty nice set up they got going. When all goes right gawd gets the glory. When all goes wrong it's a coarse a trick from that nasty devil Or a punishment from gawd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pariah Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 This issue was the breaking point for me with Christianity- I just couldn't have a "personal relationship" with something so distant and hollow, and I wouldn't trick myself into attributing every day events to Jesus or God trying to communicate with me. Now I know why- Jesus isn't alive- but at the time it drove me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LosingMyReligion Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I know many people who state this same bullshit. And another thing, if the Lawd tells them to do something, they will with absolute conviction follow thru with what ever the imaginary voice told them. If it turns out to be the wrong thing, they attribute it to being mislead or deceived by Satan. Pretty nice set up they got going. When all goes right gawd gets the glory. When all goes wrong it's a coarse a trick from that nasty devil Or a punishment from gawd. I think Satan needs a new P.R. person. If you ask me he's alot better friend than Jesus. On a serious note, I hate the retarded excuses that Christians make. Whenever everything is going hunkey doorey, then "Oh, god is blessing my life!" and when everything isn't okay then, "Satan is really on the move" or the famous, 'The devil made me do it..." Technically, it is all God's fault because he invented Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Satan is the ultimate symbol of individualism, free will and freedom. No wonder the Muslims call us the big satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightley Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Satan is the ultimate symbol of individualism, free will and freedom. How's that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 He dared and could rebel against God. The ultimate knowledge, will and direction. He had the power to be Non-God. Isn't that the ultimate free will and freedom? To act against the whole binding force of existence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightley Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 oic. This reminds me of that book that's selling on Amazon.com. The Devil's Apocrypha Its fiction and supposedly the devil's side of the story. It takes some time to switch from the mentality of the devil being the enemy to a "friend." Not all of my povs have made the switch from the xian perspective. I don't even know if I could think of an imaginary being as a "friend." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I used to blame satan for damning everyone. I asked my pastor if i should forgive satan and he said yes. I just could not do it. Something/one that damned billions of people to eternal torture,i coudl not forgive. Then one day i realised it wasnt purely his fault, since in the background you have the all knowing all powerful creator. As for relationships. I usually have relationships with beings that are generally good and respectful to me. God of bible is deserves no relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 If you saw some homeless guy saying that he had a personal relationship with a talking bear named bob he'd be thrown into a mental institution. Exactly. Call your imaginary friend Harvey and you get thrown into a room with soft walls. Call him jebus and you're a holy man (or woman). Bottom line is, whether someone is "delusional" or not depends on the convictions of what "reality" is on the side of the one making the judgment. Remember Dr Silberman from "Terminator"? I think Satan needs a new P.R. person. If you ask me he's alot better friend than Jesus. According to the wholly babble, at least saaataaan is honest. After all, who was the liar back in that whimsical garden? On a serious note, I hate the retarded excuses that Christians make. Whenever everything is going hunkey doorey, then "Oh, god is blessing my life!" and when everything isn't okay then, "Satan is really on the move" or the famous, 'The devil made me do it..." Technically, it is all God's fault because he invented Satan. Hey, you nuts or what? Saying things like that might make a fundie think! And we all know what happens when a fundie tries to think... Overload! BANG! End of head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garrisonjj Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I spent the evening tonight with friends, most of whom are still Christians. As happens frequently, the discussion came around to religion and Christianity, and throughout the conversation, they made several mentions of their “personal relationship” with Jesus. Later, when I checked in on this board, I again found a couple of Christians mentioning or referencing this same “personal relationship”. I’m not really a rant kind of guy, having spent a great deal of my life around books and people who could carry their end of a disputation, but something about hearing this repeated so much tonight has caused a gentle *snap* inside my mind, and I wish to address this to Christians at large. You have a personal relationship with nothing. You have never seen Jesus. You have never heard Jesus. You have never been touched by Jesus. Everything you know or think you know about Jesus has been told to you by someone else. You do not know what Jesus looks like, what color his eyes are, and you could walk by him on the street and never know the difference. Every emotion you attach to him can be and is produced from multiple sources, and can be manipulated with ease. What you have is an emotional/mental construct that you have created within yourself to get you through whatever you face in life, and you have named it Jesus. You project onto it your wishes/desires and then want everyone else to believe as you do to make it more real. In short, you have an imaginary friend. It is no different from a three-year-old’s imaginary friend, except that you allow yours to call the shots. He does not hear you. He does not love you. He is not there. You have a personal relationship with nothing. Very good points.Tian fuckin fundies are greatest for this personal fuckin jesus stuff,,,where is he??? In the persons hypnotic mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 That kind of thing springs from wishful thinking, and projecting one's own desires onto the biblical material. ...and evangelical marketing tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-COG Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 where in the bible does it say word for word exactly that jesus or god wants to have a personal relationship with us? I've never seen such a verse, there are lots of sentimental verses as well as cruel hellish verses, but nowhere have I seen that god wants a personal relatioship with all of his human creatures. Excellent point, Knightley. I agree with you and Varokhar that the idea of a personal relationship is of fairly recent vintage, particularly in the Protestant/evangelical churches. Even if one accepts the bible as authoritative, it speaks of god relating to groups (national Israel, the church as a whole), not individuals. That kind of thing springs from wishful thinking, and projecting one's own desires onto the biblical material. Was the phrase/idea of "a personal relationship with Jesus" developed in America? I've never looked into when this first came into usage, and it would fit in with American individualism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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