mick Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Ever since I have come to the conclusion that at a minimum there is no Hell, and the OT attocites are man made dribble, I have been able to think of almost nothing else. (Also, I likely believe none of it at this point) When I go to bed at night I am thinking about it, usually angry. Angry that any Supreme Being would torment anyone forever. When I wake up I think about it. When I am at work I think about it. When I am eating. WHen I am wathcing TV. All the time. I mostly think all kinds of thoughts about how awful it all is. However, other times I worry I'm wrong. One thing though, my mind never thinks the foolishenss that it could still all be true AND God would be all-loving and all-benevolent. When I have moments when I fear it is all true, I usually think He is cruel for creating Hell, creating people to go there. My friend said to me that Christians god would send someone to Hell that we wouldn't put in jail for even one night. I have thought about how we are supposed to be loved by him more than we love our own children. Some Christian tried to defend the whole thing to me recently by saying something like Hell is realy just like being locked in a pitch dark dungeon where you weep and nash your teeth for all eternity. (Somehow this was to be more acceptable because there was no fire and brimstone) Then I started to think about my little daughter in this dungeon, weeping and gnashing her teeth in utter despair and darkness forever and I had the power to free her and jsut won't because I'm too Holy. God can't be less merciful than me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 You de-converted recently, right? If you think of this all the time, it's because you're going through a phase of rationalizing using the real brain cells to see the truth. I went through a couple of phases when certain things kept on nagging my mind, until I could finally let go. It's your brain, deprogramming itself. -edit- And the part that he loves us so much, was my biggest issue at the end. The Bible say "don't worry about tomorrow, because he knows what you need", but I never saw that to be true. Nothing in my life solved itself to the better, or by miracles, or by being "taken care of" by a "all loving" God. My life was the opposite, until I de-converted, took charge of my life, and now my life is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Hans is right. I went through stages of being angry and depressed and obsessed over it myself. It took some time to work itself out, but eventually it did it on it's own. This fixation is your brain trying reprogram itself and find a new way of doing things. If it helps at all, I'm a general Theist, which means I still believe in god. My general perspective is that God is either Omnipotent and unconditionally loving, or he/she/it is not. The christian god is neither of these things, and no matter how they try to defend it, that's the end of story. As you already have realized, there is NO WAY a god like that could be running the universe, or all of creation as we know it would have collapsed a long time ago. A god that needs or requires us to worship a certain way is not omnipotent. Because to say god NEEDS or REQUIRES means that god itself is incapable of supplying what it needs. So much for omnipotence. This goes with the unconditional loving. Unconditional love means UNCONDITIONAL. Christianity's god is pretty darned conditional, and that's a very human perspective of things, not a godly one. If god's love is unconditional, then there is nothing that you can do that would make god turn away from you, reject you, or throw you into a Hell...which makes the idea of a Hell (and Satan) pointless. You can be the world's most horrible person and God wouldn't abandon you or leave you behind. Honestly, if you think about it, if you still believe that god exists, there is no way the universe could run the way it does without god being both omnipotent and unconditionally loving. God requires nothing. Do what works for you. If you wish to persue a belief in some sort of Theism, there is no wrong way to do it. If you decide you really don't believe god at all, that's ok too. Us humans are never going to be able to prove god's existance to each other, and since whether you believe or not doesn't make a bit of difference to the universe anyway, you've got very little to worry about. Hope that helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mick Posted June 4, 2006 Author Share Posted June 4, 2006 Hi Kuari Thank you for your repsonse. One part confuses me though. >>there is no way the universe could run the way it does without god being both omnipotent and unconditionally loving I see all kinds of evil, horrors, pain, misery, death, and destruction in the human existence. How does any of this allow for a God who is Omnipotent and unconditionally loving? Hans is right. I went through stages of being angry and depressed and obsessed over it myself. It took some time to work itself out, but eventually it did it on it's own. This fixation is your brain trying reprogram itself and find a new way of doing things. If it helps at all, I'm a general Theist, which means I still believe in god. My general perspective is that God is either Omnipotent and unconditionally loving, or he/she/it is not. The christian god is neither of these things, and no matter how they try to defend it, that's the end of story. As you already have realized, there is NO WAY a god like that could be running the universe, or all of creation as we know it would have collapsed a long time ago. A god that needs or requires us to worship a certain way is not omnipotent. Because to say god NEEDS or REQUIRES means that god itself is incapable of supplying what it needs. So much for omnipotence. This goes with the unconditional loving. Unconditional love means UNCONDITIONAL. Christianity's god is pretty darned conditional, and that's a very human perspective of things, not a godly one. If god's love is unconditional, then there is nothing that you can do that would make god turn away from you, reject you, or throw you into a Hell...which makes the idea of a Hell (and Satan) pointless. You can be the world's most horrible person and God wouldn't abandon you or leave you behind. Honestly, if you think about it, if you still believe that god exists, there is no way the universe could run the way it does without god being both omnipotent and unconditionally loving. God requires nothing. Do what works for you. If you wish to persue a belief in some sort of Theism, there is no wrong way to do it. If you decide you really don't believe god at all, that's ok too. Us humans are never going to be able to prove god's existance to each other, and since whether you believe or not doesn't make a bit of difference to the universe anyway, you've got very little to worry about. Hope that helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I see all kinds of evil, horrors, pain, misery, death, and destruction in the human existence. How does any of this allow for a God who is Omnipotent and unconditionally loving? Very good question. Omnipotent means "all power." Having unlimited power. God's other attributes are omniscience (all knowing), omnipresence (all encompassing/all present), and omnibenevolence (all good). Humans have pretty much figured out that the universe runs on checks and balances. Things have to be destroyed if stuff is to be created, and we pretty much have to take the good and the bad down here. If you believe a god is the source of this, then God pretty much has to be an omnibeing for a universe to get set up and run like this. God can't really pick and choose what laws of nature he's going to obey today because then this system of doing things pretty pointless. The idea of omnibenevolence is a tricky question. If you believe that unconditional love exists, then it stands to reason that unconditional evil exists too. I'm really not sure what to think about that. I think humans are very capable of both, but I'm mostly interested in the word "unconditional," here. If god is unconditionally loving or evil or both, it still doesn't really make a bit of difference to your soul, does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Why the hell would an omnipotent being concern itself with the denizens of the third speck from an insignificant star? There's an entire universe to run, and I'm sure that any God would have much more important things on its mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth C Triggs Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Perhaps it would be more helpful to get through the conflict to just think of the concept of god as a general life force, perhaps. It might make it easier to reconcile the bad things that happen as just part of what happens; part of the territory if you will. In my own personal experience, I found myself with a greater attitude and less depression when I separated myself from emotional constructions upon a 'creator.' That's one of the reasons I was so miserable in church. Once separated from church I was more easily able to reconcile the pain and suffering as well as utter happiness as two opposites on a spectrum of life, ontologically. This did help me live more comfortably and feel like I was in control too. -Seth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Why the hell would an omnipotent being concern itself with the denizens of the third speck from an insignificant star? There's an entire universe to run, and I'm sure that any God would have much more important things on its mind. I dunno. I know what *I* believe, but now you can get into a whole host of theologies and theories to play with. Pick one that you like. Or forget about the whole thing and go have a cookie. It's s'all good. My point is I think it's impossible, that whether you believe in a god or not, for it to have any impact on your soul's final destination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhampir Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Why the hell would an omnipotent being concern itself with the denizens of the third speck from an insignificant star? There's an entire universe to run, and I'm sure that any God would have much more important things on its mind.Exactly. When I was deconverting, I remember spending something like 7 hours a day, every day for about 2 months researching, to the point that I was permanently banned from the house computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadouKen24 Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 When I was deconverting, I remember spending something like 7 hours a day, every day for about 2 months researching, to the point that I was permanently banned from the house computer. Heheh, I didn't get banned. See, I downloaded the sites I wanted to read to floppy diskettes, copied them to my 386, and read them there so people wouldn't complain about my hogging the family computer. 'Course, now I have a computer of my own, so I don't need to worry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjacksonRIAB Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Every once in a while I come across something new, something that I did not know before and it pisses me off all over again. It's even tainted any possibility of myself being just a plain Deist. I don't want to know what God had for breakfast or what newspaper he reads. Just STFU already and give me an opportunity to think for myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightley Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Its bad enough that there's a song in CCM (Contemporary Christian Music) by this band "The Newsboys" and the song is called "Breakfast" part of the chorus is.. "When the toast is burned, And all the milk has turned And cap'n crunch is wavin' farewell. When the big one finds you May this song remind you That they don't serve breakfast, in hell" that song cracks me up, the beat is cute but the lyrics are too funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I have to agree with Han on this one. It's just your brain reprogramming itself. It was used to the peaceful serenity of blissful, blind belief. And now that you're aware that there is an enormous reality out there that's full of almost infinite possibilities, there is a part of you that realizes how many people are being robbed of such a wonderous sight. Okay... So maybe Han didn't expand on it that much. But I did. Your anger will pass once your mind becomes comfortable with just being you and not something else that someone else wants you to be. It'll pass in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts