Can Anyone Scientifically Explain Demon Possession?

[LadyFeline]

I've heard that those who believe in Voodoo and believe there is a spell cast on them by a prominent Voodoo priest... have been known to actually die!

That's what's called "power of suggestion". You suggest to the people that they're cursed and going to die, and continue reinforcing that suggestion... And, eventually... they simply "scare themselves to death".

[Young Mother Atheist]

You're right that the situations are ifi. However, I find it interesting that ex-christians are not addressing the issue. Hearing stories about that was a big part of my christian experience. I think it is an issue that needs to be faced head on and debunked.

 

I actually shared my experience with demons and such a long time ago. I could post it here if you, or other want me to. I was very traumatized, as I think many young children probably are, by this idea at a young age. But when you are raised in something, until you are able to get out and think about it for yourself, you are pretty much going to go with the flow...even if it means believing you are demon-possessed. I have severe anxiety attacks that stem from those early experiences, and I don't know if I'll ever recover from that. That's one thing xianity did for me that I can't undo.

 

Also, I prayed in tongues and thought I cast out spirits in Jesus' name. I believed this stuff was real and experienced it, though now I don't believe that I did. Social Psychology and the power of influence are extremely strong. Keep that in mind. You actually might find it interesting to read some about Social Psychology and group dynamics. It explains a lot.

 

Also, everyone here has mentioned MPD as a culprit. Manic Depressive Disorder, or Bipolar Disorder, can display the same types of things as can Schizophrenia. Really any mood disorder has this capability as well as personality disorders. If a person believes something it is as good as them knowing it to be true, even if it is completely false. If a person loses touch with reality, the sky's the limit as to what they might do or say.

[Jedah]

This doesnt bother me at all, because Im 99% certain I know exactly what demonic possesion really is. I was debating a christian a long time ago and they brought up demonic possesion as proof of their religion.

 

This is my response:

 

I once went on a youth group trip to a christian camp for a week, and this is where I witnessed a christian phenomena known as being "slain in the spirit". This would happen to the various teenagers that went up after the 2 hour service every day. A person who has been "slain" believes themselves to have been taken over by the holy spirit, and they go into a seizure like state during this. The problem I instantly noticed was some kids were able to do it and others were not, and having a decent understanding of what self hypnosis is the resemblance between it and teens who ended up slain in the spirit was obvious. It took them a while to do it. They would often pray for it to happen to them and would close their eyes working themselves into a frenzy untill they could achieve it. The kids who werent able to get slain couldnt do so because they were missing out on an important part of what is required- you have to believe your being slain in the spirit to actually experiance being slain in the spirit in the first place. they were standing there hoping it to come on them like magic but they werent working themselves up into an emotional frenzy like the ones that actually did get slain. requirement for hallucinations is to let go of your sanity first

 

Demonic possesion is exactly that same as being slain in the spirit, except the feelings are reversed. The "Demonically possesed" achieves their state of mind in the same way a believer achieves becoming slain in the spirit. Emotional frenzy->belief->hallucinate. Same shit, differant hallucination.

African tribes go through the same thing during their divination rituals.

 

The fact that you never see a normal atheist suddenly go demon proves that its purely psychological. Where do demonic possesions happen ? Christian territory, thats where. A person who doesnt believe demonic possesion can happen to them has never ended up "possessed". It has always been in the midst of superstition. when you take these facts along with psychology and put it into the picture if anything the facts surrounding how demonic possesion takes place actually do more to disprove christianity as it shows one more example where christians are unable to tell the differance between the supernatural and natural. If were going to take demonic possesion seriously, we might as well gather round the struck burning tree during a thunderstorm and dance around it while singing praises to our thunder god, because obviously static electricity had nothing to do with it.

 

 

Now for your questions:

 

How do you explain that a person can speak in different tones of voice?

 

Voice actors can easily do this, but in addition the way they work themselves up puts stress on their voice as well. The harshness of their voice is from mucas being built up during the ordeal added to the fact that they are going to try to sound differant due to their beliefs on what makes a demon.

 

How do you explain that a person can become so strong as to overpower a number of men?

 

Others in the thread have already answered this well. Pyschosis mixed with adreneline can make it pretty difficult to hold someone down. Even a young child with that much going through them can be a handfull.

 

How do you explain the fact that demons obey the bible and respond to the name of Jesus?

 

Same reason the person responds to jesus when they arent possesed. They are christian. "In the name of Jesus" to a possesed person is like a hypnotic suggestion. It will trigger a response.

[LadyFeline]

Where do demonic possesions happen ? Christian territory, thats where.

Actually, that's not entirely true at all.

 

Stories of "demon possession" come from every part of the world where people believe in malevolent spirits that have the ability to control human bodies. Japan, China, India, Africa... And all of these stories began long before Christianity was even a single ink mark on a piece of parchment.

 

Even today, "possession" isn't limited to Christians. Voodoo practitioners, Native Americans, African natives, Hindus, and any number of non-Christians can become "possessed" by "forces", "spirits", "gods", and "demons".

 

And, while your take on possession is interesting (and partially correct), it's not the only explanation. Certainly, some people can self-hypnotize and simulate "possession" - but it can also be explained by seizures, mental illness, (external) power of suggestion... Hell, it could be that some "demon possessions" are just a group of actors performing to fool congregations. And quite of few of the stories are no doubt just gross exaggerations.

 

Don't limit yourself so severely. Thinking that there's only ever one answer to a question like this is the best way to get yourself stuck in a rut

[Jedah]

Sorry, I ment to say "Christian demonic possesion" In that they believe they have been possesed specifically by a demon as described by those from the christian faith. To be honest I thought most people reading my post would take the fact that I was only referring to the christian scenarios as a given since thats what the OP is asking...

 

The only place you ever find people who are possesed by specifically one of lucifers anti-jeebuz swat team is indeed christian territory.

 

Don't limit yourself so severely. Thinking that there's only ever one answer to a question like this is the best way to get yourself stuck in a rut

 

This may sound harsh because its a pet peeve of mine, but just where did you get the idea that Im limiting myself ? Where did I specifically state that no other explanation for demonic possesion is valid ? You wont find it in my post because I never did. I hate it when people point out vague generalizations.

 

People shouldnt have to stamp "I am aware the opinions expressed are from personal experiance and I am open to other ideas and suggestions" In everything they write just to prevent someone from saying "OMIGOSH Your limting yourself too much you shouldnt do that !!! *wags finger*" Unless a person specifically states that they think all other explanations are bogus it should be a given. Its also important to take note that there is a big differance between being sure that your right and being sure that everyone else is wrong. A person who is sure they are right could simply mean they are sure what they are saying holds some truth to it, it doesnt mean they arent willing to listen to what others have to say.

 

Nagging someone about limiting their horizen should be saved for those who stand up and utter "Everyone else is full of shit !!!"

[LadyFeline]

The only place you ever find people who are possesed by specifically one of lucifers anti-jeebuz swat team is indeed christian territory.

That depends on who you ask, really. If you ask a Christian, they'll just say that every instance of "demonic possession" involves one of their pet boogeymen. Hell, some non-Christians even imply that. I was just pointing out that "possession" is a phenomenon that extends beyond Christianity, is all

 

Where did I specifically state that no other explanation for demonic possesion is valid ? You wont find it in my post because I never did.

Ahem...

Im 99% certain I know exactly what demonic possesion really is

 

No offense, but that sure sounds like you're trying to play that up as the only "good" explanation for demonic possession.

 

Next time, you might want to pick your words a little more carefully, savvy? This is the Internet - people can't pick up on implications or subtle suggestions through words alone.

[Lorena Rodriguez]

I was looking at a book list today and found a book called Encounter with the Paranormal by K. Frazier.

 

Apparently, the book gives logical explanations to events people call supernatural. My local library has it, so I am going to pick it up.

[Sparrow]

OK, I know that most of you are atheists and belive that demon possession (DP) is just mental illness (MI). I have been surfing the web for a while trying to find a clear explanation for why DP is just MI with no luck. Here are my questions with the answers I have come up with. I would love to read your views or any sources you can provide me with.

 

Firstly “Demonic Possession” only happens in the mid west of the USA and countries such as Africa and Haiti where the overall populace is either uneducated, overly religious or both. It practically happens nowhere else. That is just simply an observed fact.

 

It happens usually in the presence of overly religious people (i.e fundamentalism) or environments where overly religious people are. End of story as that is just recorded statistics.

 

How do you explain that a person can speak in different tones of voice?

It is a dysfunction of the brain.

 

You can explain it by someone wanting to come across as “possessed” or someone trying to sound as from “another-world”. My husband used to do it when he played with the children.

 

Mel Blanc, the famous American voice artist could do a pretty convincing monster voice without much preparation. You could learn it too if you want.

 

How do you explain that a person can become so strong as to overpower a number of men?

Perhaps there is something in our brain about that too.

 

I explain it by referring to the same process that a Mother sometimes experiences when she flips a car out of the way to save her child who has fallen underneath it, or an 18 year old girl who gets so angry punches a hole clear through the windscreen of a car or a very highly trained martial artist can catch an arrow in mid-flight or leave a hand-print in quarter-inch thick steel armor.

 

The human body is an amazing thing and is capable of very many things that we haven’t begun to suspect, but it is categorically NOT demonic possession.

 

Of course, feats of strength and speed do not happen every day, but in times of deep fear and high emotion or extreme mental focus people can do extraordinary things, BUT it is not spiritual, special, magical or angelic. Again, nothing special there.

 

How do you explain the fact that demons obey the bible and respond to the name of Jesus? Perhaps they don't respond to the name of Jesus or to the bible. Maybe the exorcist gathers emotional strength and authority from the icons, and the mentally ill sucumb to such authority.

 

Easy! When you have another religion that believes in demonic possession, the individual who is supposedly possessed responds to the invocation of that peculiar Deities name. Always has.

 

This should tell you about what “possession” actually is.

 

Think about this Lorena, when you were a teenager and in Church, did you ever get the feeling to do something outrageous in the middle of the service? You know, stand up and scream out “Fuck!!!” at the top of you voice?

 

And there is that part of me that says: demons exist and Jesus is god. You go figure!

 

Then there is the part that says demons never existed, Jesus never existed either and was only an imaginary deity used to control iron-age roman slaves, and by continuing to believe in monsters, ghoulies, ghosts, spirits, boogey-men, Jesus, God, Allah, Yahweh, Buddha, etc, you wasted your entire life being frightened of things that don’t exist.

 

Enjoy.

 

Sparrow

[LadyFeline]

Firstly “Demonic Possession” only happens in the mid west of the USA and countries such as Africa and Haiti where the overall populace is either uneducated, overly religious or both. It practically happens nowhere else. That is just simply an observed fact.

 

It happens usually in the presence of overly religious people (i.e fundamentalism) or environments where overly religious people are. End of story as that is just recorded statistics.

Are you willfully this stupid, or have you just not had the time to learn a little something about cultures worldwide?

 

"Demonic possession" occurs everywhere where there are people who believe in malevolent spirits. It doesn't just occur "in the mid west[sic] of USA" or places "such as Africa and Haiti" where people are "uneducated" (which is a fucking insult to these people, by the by) or "overly religious".

 

The Chinese and Japanese have never been "overly religious". Superstitious, perhaps, but not religious in the manner you're implying. Nor could they have ever been considered ignorant. Yet, you can find records of "demonic possession" in those cultures, dating back thousands of years before Christianity and its cousins appeared on the scene.

 

Virtually every non-Abrahamic religion has its share of "demons" that have "possessed" followers of those religions since time began. The phenomenon of "demonic possession" is not limited to overly-religious fundamentalist Christians or semi-Christians. Get your facts straight.

[Sparrow]

Firstly “Demonic Possession” only happens in the mid west of the USA and countries such as Africa and Haiti where the overall populace is either uneducated, overly religious or both. It practically happens nowhere else. That is just simply an observed fact.

 

It happens usually in the presence of overly religious people (i.e fundamentalism) or environments where overly religious people are. End of story as that is just recorded statistics.

Are you willfully this stupid, or have you just not had the time to learn a little something about cultures worldwide?

 

"Demonic possession" occurs everywhere where there are people who believe in malevolent spirits. It doesn't just occur "in the mid west[sic] of USA" or places "such as Africa and Haiti" where people are "uneducated" (which is a fucking insult to these people, by the by) or "overly religious".

 

The Chinese and Japanese have never been "overly religious". Superstitious, perhaps, but not religious in the manner you're implying. Nor could they have ever been considered ignorant. Yet, you can find records of "demonic possession" in those cultures, dating back thousands of years before Christianity and its cousins appeared on the scene.

 

Virtually every non-Abrahamic religion has its share of "demons" that have "possessed" followers of those religions since time began. The phenomenon of "demonic possession" is not limited to overly-religious fundamentalist Christians or semi-Christians. Get your facts straight.

 

THESE DAYS, you hardly hear of “demonic possession” outside the USA, Haiti or Africa..

 

It usually happens THESE DAYS in conjunction with poor education and / or hyper-religious environments.

 

Generally. the only place where you see it THESE DAYS is in relation to FUNDAMENTALISM.

 

So, unless you can contradict me with a good source of facts, current locations and details on “possession” statistics, OR unless you are saying it does happen often to highly educated and non-religious people THESE DAYS, then you go get YOUR facts right.

 

Eiter way, get a life.

 

Sparrow

[LadyFeline]

My, my. So rude. Really, you act like your sanctimonious little attitude is going to bother me.

 

You want information on areas where possession is said to occur outside of Christian fundamentalism? Well, since I couldn't find anything appropriate to your apparent level of reading comprehension... Here's a few links for you to muddle through. Maybe you'll learn something.

 

"Spiritual possession" - article outlining varying types of possession, including examples from non-Christian religions, and areas where Christianity isn't prominent.

 

"Animism" - a bit more on non-Christian "possession" phenomena, anchored in animisitic religions worldwide.

 

"Demon" - covers not only Christian demons, but also demon and demon-like entities from other religions. Particularly of note are the Hindu entities, which are still believed to possess human beings. And, last I checked, Hindus weren't Christian.

 

And neither were most Native Americans, Shintos, or aborigines...

 

But, then again, I wouldn't expect you to know that. That would, after all, require a little reading and research on your own behalf...

[Reach]

Lady Feline, this is not the Lion's Den.

 

Please take the personal attacks to private message.

[nicoleeann]

I actually do believe in demons-but that does not mean I believe in christianity. I can also speak in tongues, which I have done 4 times after rejecting xtianity (not until after I rejected xtianity). just because you don't believe in xtianity does not mean you have to believe that everything about it is false. jesus the person could have existed, but his story was twisted and changed to help support a controlling brain-washing empire.

just a thought.

[Amanda]

I've heard that those who believe in Voodoo and believe there is a spell cast on them by a prominent Voodoo priest... have been known to actually die!

That's what's called "power of suggestion". You suggest to the people that they're cursed and going to die, and continue reinforcing that suggestion... And, eventually... they simply "scare themselves to death".

My apologies Lady Feline, for the delay in responding. I've been away.

 

This site here has some information about such incidences. It says this:

 

For just as an individual's sickness may have a psychosomatic basis, it is possible for a society to generate physical ailments and conditions that have meaning only in the minds of its people. In Australia, for example, aborigine sorcerers carry bones extracted from the flesh of giant lizards, and when these slivers are pointed at a person while a death spell is recited, the individual invariably sickens and almost always dies.

 

Voodoo death has been so commonly reported, and so frequently documented and verified by scientific observers, that its existence is no longer a matter of debate. Of course, no scientist would believe that there is a direct causal relationship between the death of the victim and, for example, the physical act of pointing a bone. Clearly it is the victim's mind that mediates the sorcerer's curse and the fatal outcome. What remains to be discovered is the mechanism that actually allows this to occur.

[Lorena Rodriguez]

'Amanda' date='Jun 23 2006, 11:36 AM' post='189834'

 

Voodoo death has been so commonly reported, and so frequently documented and verified by scientific observers, that its existence is no longer a matter of debate. Of course, no scientist would believe that there is a direct causal relationship between the death of the victim and, for example, the physical act of pointing a bone. Clearly it is the victim's mind that mediates the sorcerer's curse and the fatal outcome. What remains to be discovered is the mechanism that actually allows this to occur.

 

Amanda,

 

I haven't gone to the website you suggest, but I shall pay it a visit. I tend to agree with those statements just because I believe the mind is powerful. I believe that trained people can project their thoughts on others and cause all kinds of trouble, which is what people call witchcraft.

 

It doesn't have to be scientific or measurable. Two thousand years ago, people would have said you were nuts had you suggested electricity existed, yet it did.

 

It doesn't have to be demonic either. I think that's another area where seemingly inexplicable things are ascribed to a god-force, in this case the devil.

 

Having grown up in a third-world country where witchcraft is so widespread, I am not ready to deny that certain strange things do happen around us.

 

Take care

[Amanda]

Having grown up in a third-world country where witchcraft is so widespread, I am not ready to deny that certain strange things do happen around us.

Lorena, beliefs are very powerful, IMO. It is important in what we allow ourself to believe. Isn't it nice to know that just because we do not believe in Voodoo, it will have no effect on us? I'm sure that applies to aspects of this culture here too, but because I'm in it... it is hard for me to see and is accepted in the forms of presuppositions. What we believe becomes our reality... and I wonder where beliefs end and "reality" really is?