Llwellyn Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 I think I have homed in on the absolute center of where the Christian thought system goes wrong, and all other cognitive distortions of Christianity radiate out from this central confusion. Christians believe that there is a: Divine punishment of destruction for immorality. Christians believe that God has wrath, and the operation of God's wrath on a non-Christian is not corrective. Being convinced that God would punish people for evil in a manner intended to destroy rather than correct them, Christians begin to fashion all their other nonsensical doctrines: "Christ bore this punishment on the cross as a substitute for humans (atonement)," "If you believe that this happened (faith), you will be pardoned of God's punishment (justification)," "If you don't believe this theology, the divine punishment shall be imposed upon you," etc. etc. etc. (Of course, Christians will usually say something like, "There is no active divine punishment, just the natural outcome and consequences of evil and willful separation from God." Then they will point to a Bible verse which tends to obscure the aspect of divine punishment in Christianity: "The wages of sin is death." But we all know that this is just an obfuscatory euphemism which hides the manner in which the theology actually functions.) At the core of Christianity is the thought that God's punishment, absent any other intervening circumstances, tends to be destructive rather than corrective. What a miserable, puritanical martinet for a God! And what a poverty-stricken "faith"! How likely is it that this theology corresponds to an objective reality outside of the minds of the Christian? What evidence is there that any suffering happens because an omnipotent being wishes to hurt, harm, or injure his creatures? The best antidote or vaccination for this kernel of insanity is likely Platonic theism, which teaches that if there is a God, he enforces the violated moral law by pedagogically punishing rather than destructively punishing. Thus, the way to be "saved" is by allowing God's punishment, wrath, and judgment to transfigure you. No "atonement," or "faith" needed. This kind of a theology and a hope can clear out the Christian cobwebs in short order. Here is a Porphyry, (c. 232 AD - c. 304), Greek NeoPlatonist in who grew up in a Christian family but deconverted from Christianity like you and I: "The Gods have proclaimed Christ to have been most pious, but the Christians are a confused and vicious sect." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Meadows Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I think I have homed in on the absolute center of where the Christian thought system goes wrong, and all other cognitive distortions of Christianity radiate out from this central confusion. Christians believe that there is a: Divine punishment of destruction for immorality. Christians believe that God has wrath, and the operation of God's wrath on a non-Christian is not corrective. Being convinced that God would punish people for evil in a manner intended to destroy rather than correct them, Christians begin to fashion all their other nonsensical doctrines: "Christ bore this punishment on the cross as a substitute for humans (atonement)," "If you believe that this happened (faith), you will be pardoned of God's punishment (justification)," "If you don't believe this theology, the divine punishment shall be imposed upon you," etc. etc. etc. (Of course, Christians will usually say something like, "There is no active divine punishment, just the natural outcome and consequences of evil and willful separation from God." Then they will point to a Bible verse which tends to obscure the aspect of divine punishment in Christianity: "The wages of sin is death." But we all know that this is just an obfuscatory euphemism which hides the manner in which the theology actually functions.) At the core of Christianity is the thought that God's punishment, absent any other intervening circumstances, tends to be destructive rather than corrective. What a miserable, puritanical martinet for a God! And what a poverty-stricken "faith"! How likely is it that this theology corresponds to an objective reality outside of the minds of the Christian? What evidence is there that any suffering happens because an omnipotent being wishes to hurt, harm, or injure his creatures? The best antidote or vaccination for this kernel of insanity is likely Platonic theism, which teaches that if there is a God, he enforces the violated moral law by pedagogically punishing rather than destructively punishing. Thus, the way to be "saved" is by allowing God's punishment, wrath, and judgment to transfigure you. No "atonement," or "faith" needed. This kind of a theology and a hope can clear out the Christian cobwebs in short order. Here is a Porphyry, (c. 232 AD - c. 304), Greek NeoPlatonist in who grew up in a Christian family but deconverted from Christianity like you and I: "The Gods have proclaimed Christ to have been most pious, but the Christians are a confused and vicious sect." Good post - we seem to be on the same wavelength, maybe thats why I think its a good post p.s whats the image at the bottom edit: o.k I remember now looking at photos I took in Santa (Haghia) Sophia in Istanbul, -the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Or put more simply, Christians are binary thinkers. They have trouble with degrees. For them it's ok for god to answer spilled milk with a kick to the teeth. Sin is sin and the punishment must be massive. In other words, they're all kooky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llwellyn Posted June 24, 2006 Author Share Posted June 24, 2006 Good post - we seem to be on the same wavelength, maybe thats why I think its a good post p.s whats the image at the bottom edit: o.k I remember now looking at photos I took in Santa (Haghia) Sophia in Istanbul, -the point? What is it about my comments that you resonate or agree with? The idea that Christianity is a cognitive virus that has its center in the idea of a divine punishment of destruction for wrong? Yeah, my siggy is an "Allah" calligraphy. I'm not sure why I put it there, if I find something else interesting, I'll switch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendly Misanthrope Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 One of the things I don't understand about Xtianity is this: Jesus is god, according the Xtians, yes? God was the one who demanded that sacrifices should be offered for the atonement of sins, was he not? So why did God punish himself (Jesus) on our behalf? Would it not have been easier to skip the middle man, i.e. Jesus, and just take away his own requirement for such a sacrifice? I'm tired so I may not be very able to elucidate my thinking here, but I'll try to use an analogous situation: A man who has offended me so that as restitution, I must cut off his right hand to make up for his offense. I then generously let the man off the hook, by instead offering to cut off my own right hand. As long as he believes that I cut off my own hand for him, I don't have to cut his hand off. This guy sure owes me big time now! Now, in the above scenario, wouldn't it simply have been easier for me to simply remove my damand for the amputation of a hand? But Xtians say it just shows us how much god loves us because he fulfilled his requirement of punishment by punishing himself. To this I say, "Huh?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Meadows Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Good post - we seem to be on the same wavelength, maybe thats why I think its a good post p.s whats the image at the bottom edit: o.k I remember now looking at photos I took in Santa (Haghia) Sophia in Istanbul, -the point? What is it about my comments that you resonate or agree with? Indirectly that the xtian concept of God is essentially a vengeful being who is anything but love. "God is Love" answers the most essential question about why I exist. Indeed it appears in the bible but interwoven with so much hateful garbage that love is buried. The idea that Christianity is a cognitive virus that has its center in the idea of a divine punishment of destruction for wrong? Its attempt to reconcile within itself what cannot be reconciled. It says "God is love" yet proceeds to describe in terms of "God is hate". It twists minds by doing so. Purgation goes with love but hell is a complete contradiction. To me no person can actually hold ideas like "God is love" and the doctrine of hell at the same time without it doing damage. Yeah, my siggy is an "Allah" calligraphy. I'm not sure why I put it there, if I find something else interesting, I'll switch it. It brought back memories of a visit I made to Santa Sophia a long time ago before I was a xtian. They were doing work on the roof at the time and had exposed a gold cross that predated the fall of Constantinople. Somehow it moved me. I later found out Constantines mother was supposed to have brought the true cross to Santa Sophia after her pilgrimage to the Holy Land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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