Fweethawt Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 What if Goliath really did get killed twice?Hey Fweethawt, are there really two conflicting accounts of Goliath's death? I never realized that. Right now, I'm postive that there are two accounts of Goliath's death within the bible. I don't know the verses off-hand though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Amy, Why do I get the feeling that you're in the grip of Pascal's wager? You say things like "you continue to play russian roulette with your soul" and "eternal darkness is no laughing matter". But you know what? Think about this. If you go through your life believing in Christianity, believing that your soul can be transported into either paradise or hell when you die, and you're wrong, you've wasted your entire life on a belief structure that can potentially keep you from many experiences. People who like Pascal's wager say you've lost nothing, because you'll be dead and you won't know it, but I think that's ridiculous. You've lost your LIFE. Your life will thus be a LIE. And life is important, dear - part of what irks me now about religion is how much I couldn't wait to die and "be with Jesus" back in the day - so much that I missed a lot of what was going on in the HERE and NOW. why is it you think christians lead a life away from many experiences. what is it that you do that i don't do, that makes your life so much better? If you don't believe in Christianity, like us, and you turn out to be wrong - then when you die, God will be just in punishing you to "eternal darkness" because you will be "unholy". You might have led a full life of love, made choices for yourself, thought for yourself, and been accountable for your own morals, which, by the way, atheists CAN have - and if in the end, you're right about God, and he wants to punish you (or any of us) for that - well, you won't really be able to argue now, will you? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 why is it you think christians lead a life away from many experiences. what is it that you do that i don't do, that makes your life so much better? Its not so much about WHAT you do as the way you do it. In my own personal experience, your not really allowed to enjoy things as a christian, because this world is sinful and evil so enjoying things in it is bad. The idea of orginal sin taints everything a christian does and makes it imposible to completly enjoy. At least I felt this way. The idea that the natural world is good and so there is nothing wrong with enjoying life is not widely encoraged among most christians denomnations. I think people are afraid wee might sin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 What if Goliath really did get killed twice?Hey Fweethawt, are there really two conflicting accounts of Goliath's death? I never realized that. Right now, I'm postive that there are two accounts of Goliath's death within the bible. I don't know the verses off-hand though. I was going to ask about this too. I remember david piercing his skull with a smooth stone and then him falling face foward (my sunday school teachers made a big deal of this for some reason, i don't know why. Guess they thought a supernatural force was involved in making him fall foward and not backward). Then david climbs on him and cuts off his head and holds it to scare off the attackers. This is all I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuroikaze Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Either that's Jesus words in the Book or it's all fiction, including what He said about Hell. Guess we all have to wait and see. Thats a pretty cheep cop out of the discusion. Its like saying "you'll understand when your older" All your saying is I can't prove it but I still believe it. without actually admiting you can't prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT45 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Either that's Jesus words in the Book or it's all fiction, including what He said about Hell. Guess we all have to wait and see. Either that's Mohammeds words in the Book or it's all fiction, including what He said about Hell. Guess we all have to wait and see. as you already know it goes both ways. Anyway we can choose to wait and live in fear about hell being real and choosing to follow either Yahweh or Allah or we can just try to enjoy life living the best we can. I'm not sure but I'm guessing that your enjoying life amy. You seem pretty happy from what I gather from your stories and drawings. That's all that matters in the end anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wideawake42 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 why is it you think christians lead a life away from many experiences. what is it that you do that i don't do, that makes your life so much better? 1. I don't think everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is going to Hell, so I don't feel superior to anyone else, nor do I pity them or worry over their "souls". 2. I don't think homosexuals are an "abomination", I don't think bestiality is anything but gross, I don't think pre-marital sex is some sort of "evil" - actually, I don't believe in objective good and/or evil at all. I do not believe that I am inherently "sinful". I believe that *I* am responsible for my actions. I believe it is up to ME to decide how to behave. If I screw up, I don't think I can get some sort of magical absolution that wipes away my past iniquities. My life is my own, not bought with a human sacrifice. 3. I love my family, friends, and myself far more than any political or spiritual doctrine I might hold. Christians are not capable of this if they want to obey Luke 14:26, a direct issue from Jesus. 4. I don't believe in a lot of fairy-tale bogus shit that consequently requires me to periodically rewrite and/or censor science as I see fit. (I.e., the earth is 6,000 years old, people once lived to be up to 969 years old, Moses parting the red sea, all animals were originally herbivores, humans were created out of "dust", giants once lived, angels had sex with human women, the entire noah's ark thing, the Tower of Babel story, the earth is fixed and the sun revolves around it, dragons and sea monsters exist, the sun stopped for a day, Jonah lived in the belly of a "great fish" for three days, Jesus said mustard seeds are the "smallest" of all seeds and grow into "trees", biological death is the result of sin, diseases are the result of demons and evil spirits, all animals are afraid of humans....do I really need to go on?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeday Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 why is it you think christians lead a life away from many experiences. what is it that you do that i don't do, that makes your life so much better? 1. I don't think everyone who doesn't believe in Jesus is going to Hell, so I don't feel superior to anyone else, nor do I pity them or worry over their "souls". i almost agree with you on this one. i don't feel superior to anyone either, many of Jesus' parables are about humbling oneself. and i don't pitty your soul either. you are a grown person, you can make desicions for yourself. 2. I don't think homosexuals are an "abomination", I don't think bestiality is anything but gross, I don't think pre-marital sex is some sort of "evil" - actually, I don't believe in objective good and/or evil at all. I do not believe that I am inherently "sinful". I believe that *I* am responsible for my actions. I believe it is up to ME to decide how to behave. If I screw up, I don't think I can get some sort of magical absolution that wipes away my past iniquities. My life is my own, not bought with a human sacrifice. i don't think homosexuals are an abomination either. i find beastiality disgusting and wrong, ok it's just plain sick. pre marital sex is not bad, i actually enjoyed it (but i do wish i would have waited for my wife). Jesus doesn't decide for you how to behave, he is a great encourager to be kind to people. and his sacrifice was not to put burdens on people, but to take them away. 3. I love my family, friends, and myself far more than any political or spiritual doctrine I might hold. Christians are not capable of this if they want to obey Luke 14:26, a direct issue from Jesus. i think my love for God helps me better love my wife and family. Jesus taught a lot on putting others above yourself. not to be selfish. i can't tell you how many arguements i have heard between married people just over them being selfish, people always think their needs outweigh the others. it takes a strong person to overcome this. 4. I don't believe in a lot of fairy-tale bogus shit that consequently requires me to periodically rewrite and/or censor science as I see fit. (I.e., the earth is 6,000 years old, people once lived to be up to 969 years old, Moses parting the red sea, all animals were originally herbivores, humans were created out of "dust", giants once lived, angels had sex with human women, the entire noah's ark thing, the Tower of Babel story, the earth is fixed and the sun revolves around it, dragons and sea monsters exist, the sun stopped for a day, Jonah lived in the belly of a "great fish" for three days, Jesus said mustard seeds are the "smallest" of all seeds and grow into "trees", biological death is the result of sin, diseases are the result of demons and evil spirits, all animals are afraid of humans....do I really need to go on?) if you don't want to believe, you don't have to. nobody is forcing you to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 But don't you believe your soul is eternal? Eternity is much longer than this life. What do we have? Maybe 80, 90 years on the planet or more if we're lucky. What's a soul? Your memories? That's your brain. Your sense of self? Also a brain function. Please enlighten us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shiva H. Vishnu Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 But don't you believe your soul is eternal? Eternity is much longer than this life. What do we have? Maybe 80, 90 years on the planet or more if we're lucky. What's a soul? Your memories? That's your brain. Your sense of self? Also a brain function. Please enlighten us. The soul is the mortal content of the mind. Nothing more. If there is evidence to the contrary, we'd all love to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotBlinded Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Perhaps He did send me here. So you don't think I was being "deep" by pointing out the fact that no one here can prove what waits beyond the grave and you continue to play Russian roulette with your eternal soul? You are the one that has chosen to play. We are just observers to your insanity. We watch as it spins...will it be Allah? Will it be Jesus? Will it be Jehovah? Will it be Zeus? 'round and 'round it goes...where it stops, nobody knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 But don't you believe your soul is eternal? Eternity is much longer than this life. What do we have? Maybe 80, 90 years on the planet or more if we're lucky. Not only do I not believe in a "soul", I don't even believe in "eternity" (at least, not the way you seem to mean here)... I'm sorry Amy, but you're religion has nothing to offer me (other than guilt, anxiety and fear)... IMOHO, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 If God exists, and he'll send me to Hell for not believing in him, then I don't want him. If God exists, and he'll show mercy and send me to Heaven, even if I don't believe in him, then I don't need him. If God exists, and he doesn't show himself or prove himself to me, then I don't know him. If God exists, and the only understanding of him is through his followers, then I scorn him. If God doesn't exist, and I don't believe in him, then I'm at least right based on what I know, and not wrong on what I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 But don't you believe your soul is eternal?Nope. I don't remember being anywhere before I was born, so there's no "eternal" for me in the past. I don't have any awareness of being anywhere when I'm asleep and not dreaming. And I'm quite satisfied with the idea that my molecules could one day be reconstituted as part of other chunks of matter. (The example I used was a rock, a dahlia, and three tablespoons.) So what if I'm not the same "me" I am at this moment? I wasn't even that "me" yesterday, so no big deal. No fear. No problemo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 Perhaps He did send me here. So you don't think I was being "deep" by pointing out the fact that no one here can prove what waits beyond the grave and you continue to play Russian roulette with your eternal soul? No. You weren't deep at all. What if the Muslims are right, and in your afterlife you'll risk going to their hell? You're playing Russian Roulette with your eternal soul, amy marie... Don't you feel scared by the thought of the Muslim hell? No? Then why should we feel scared by the thought of your hell? We can't prove the Christian hell doesn't exist. You can't prove the Muslim hell doesn't exist. Huh. Maybe you could try to be both Cristian and Muslim just to play it safe? EDIT: I see that Hansolo had already pointed to the muslim hell. Even better, the more the merrier! Let's all have fun in Muslim heaven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuryan Posted July 22, 2006 Share Posted July 22, 2006 I don't recall you ever answered Asuryan on The Flood. Maybe you did and I missed it. Aww, sweet Ficino always thinks about me and my poor little abandoned extra-long post... You are so cute! However I wonder how does Amy hope of converting someone back to her religion, when she keeps acting like a rabbit jumping away every time someone asks her a tough question, either ignoring the post altogether or spewing rhetorics when what we ask is logic. Why should this kind of cowardice re-convert someone to God is beyond me. She seems convinced God brought her here, right? So, amy, it could be that God is asking you to answer my flood questions, by making me ask you over and over the same things and reminding you of that post. Why is he doing so? Well, who knows, maybe by answering me, you'll be able to learn something or to solve some doubts, even the doubts of someone else reading that thread. But nooo it's much more cozier to just ignore the whole post, right? Shameful. I could be your daughter, given my rather young age. If your daughter asked you those questions, would you just ignore her and go away? What about the "ask and it shall be given"? Then GIVE me my explanation, otherwise you're only a hypocrite unwilling to do what your own god asked you to do. (yes, appeal to emotions, if Logic can't do the trick, let's see if at least this way you'll deign yourself of answering.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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