Admin webmdave Posted October 6, 2006 Admin Share Posted October 6, 2006 http://exchristian.net/exchristian/2006/10...mish-girls.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Ok, now THAT was entertaining. Watching two newscasters completely lose all sense of decorum and go off on that fundy hag had me LMAO through the whole thing. I imagine when Phelps kicks it, there is going to be parties in every bar with toasts of "Good Riddance!" And I vow to be right out there celebrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Holy shit. Literally. At least I wasn't a part of THAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 When you have Sean Hannity saying your Christian fundamentalism goes way too far, there should be serious warning sirens EXPLODING in your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thackerie Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 ... I imagine when Phelps kicks it, there is going to be parties in every bar with toasts of "Good Riddance!" And I vow to be right out there celebrating. Seems to me that I haven't seen the old man fouling up the airwaves for some time now; he just leaves it up to that harpy bitch. Maybe that's an indication that Freddie isn't doing so well and isn't long for this world. It's times like these that I wish hell was real and that there really was a just god. Oh well, having that old creep dead and gone is second best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markkasan Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Sean Hannity and Colmes implemented the backhand of justice and the forehand of rage against that bitch. Well done, gentlemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Freethinka Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 WTF?????? I was speechless as I watched that, with my mouth gaping open ( I am rarely speechless ) I know how hatefull those fundys can be, but usually they don't bluntly admit it! I think mainstream americans need to see that. I will be forwarding that clip to everyone I know. WOW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I just watched this again and have come to the conclusion that although these fuckers are absolute NUTJOBS, they are by far the most HONEST christians out there. They take the bible literally, and they stand by it. There's no "God is Love" in their theology. It's cold, hard, wrath and retribution poured out on the heads of the wicked by their GAWD. So for their honesty I tip my hat to them...and for their heartlessness and apathy for their fellow man follow it with a swift kick in the ass. Idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 What are they trying to say? The Amish don't have enough religion in their schools or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warrior_of_god Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I have never liked Hannity and Colmes...I think that just changed...good for them for calling psycho bitch from hell out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Meh, this didn't really improve my opinion of H&C, just reaffirmed they're still human. Just about anyone would look good next to that raving psycho. Though I have to agree with ABAP. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone as brutally honest about the contents of the babble and the Christian religion as the Phelps clan. They're a bunch of inhuman fuckers, but they do a bang-up job of showing exactly what is wrong with Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I clearly have too much time on my hands. Here's the transcript I made from this interview. It's even better when you read everything that freak says. Colmes: Welcome back to Hannity and Colmes. Members of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas have been protesting at military funerals since June of last year carrying signs with anti-gay slogans. Yesterday they announced that they were planning to protest at the funerals of the Amish schoolgirls shot to death in Lancaster, Pennsylvania earlier this week but they have since changed their plans. With us now from Westboro Baptist Church, Shirley Phelps-Roper. You changed your plans because Mike Gallagher has offered you airtime on his radio show because you want to get your message out… Shirley: Exactly… Colmes: What is that message? Shirley: The message is that god has put his standard in the earth, he expects his creatures to obey it, if you obey he’ll bless you, if you don’t he’ll curse you, America has sinned away her day of grace, America is doomed. Colmes: Alright, you’re giving me what sounds like a bunch of talking points. I…why would you cause more pain to this community, the Amish community which…is so not even involved in so much of what is considered “modern day”, and these families who have suffered…do you have any sense of how much additional pain you would be causing these families by protesting at the funerals of these young girls? Shirley: There isn’t any way to fix that situation for them. It’s not going to be any less painful if we are there or we aren’t there. They did that to themselves and you say they’re not involved… Colmes: What do you mean they did that to themselves? Shirley: I mean they sit over there and make their own form of righteousness instead of… Colmes: Did those girls deserve to be killed? Shirley: Uh…well they did get killed and they did that…Who controls the hearts of men? It was at the hand of an angry god those girls are dead. Colmes: Did they deserve to die? Shirley: They did deserve to die. Colmes: How can you possibly make a statement like that? Shirley: Because that’s exactly what happened and it happened at the hand of the lord your god… Colmes: How could you possibly say….how could you possibly say that young girls who have done nothing wrong, who are innocent, who are just a few years old, who have never sinned,… Shirley: (incredulous look on her face) Colmes: …who have never done anything deserve to die? How could you possibly make a statement like that? Shirley: You told me that you served the god of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who says that when Adam sinned all sinned. There are no innocent human beings. Colmes: You know…you protest funerals of soldiers, you protest funerals of anybody who seems…dies under any circumstances…anybody who is not a member of your church is a sinner and is hated by god. Shirley: I don’t go to the…anybody who… Colmes: ..you…you… Shirley: …if you don’t serve god, then… Colmes: Yeah, but who serves god besides people in your church? Shirley: Well…uh…you tell me. I don’t see anyone on the landscape… in America… Colmes: There’s nobody…nobody except people in your church which is basically your family, a few hundred members of your family are the only people on earth who serve god and everybody else deserves to die. Shirley: You need to get out on these streets and warn your neighbor that his sin is taking him to hell, fulfilling the royal law to love your neighbor as yourself. Hannity: Hey Shirley…you’re really a sick woman. Shirley: Oh…huh…slight cold, but thank you. Hannity: You are a sick, soulless, twisted human being. You’re so…where’s your soul that you come on the air and these young innocent girls are gonna die and you’re gonna open up the families wound and pour salt on it…where’s your heart? Where’s your soul? Where’s your compassion? Where’s your love? Shirley: (getting exasperated) Our message…our message is for the living and that is the only loving thing to do… Hannity: What about the living families that lost their daughter? They lost their daughter! Shirley: They did that to themselves. Hannity: No! Because some animal killed them in cold blood… Shirley: Sent by who? Hannity: …the families didn’t do it! Shirley: Who controls the hearts of men? Hannity: Do you sin? Shirley: Who controls the hearts of... Hannity: Did you ever commit adultery? Shirley: ...no, of course not. Hannity: Did you ever sin? Did you ever lust in your heart? Did you ever get angry? Did you ever sin? Shirley: You’ve got the deck chairs on the Titanic. Hannity: Have you ever sinned Ms. Perfect here? Shirley: Well of course you know that I’ve sinned and that’s not the point… Hannity: You have? So you’re a sinner, so why didn’t you die? Shirley: So you’re saying therefore… Hannity: Would you deserve to die? Shirley: Well, of course, all of us deserve to die… Hannity: Yeah..so you sit there… Shirley: …but I’m not the one who did die… Hannity: …your entire life… Shirley: …and my message is for those living people who brought that pain upon themselves… Hannity: This is what I see about you Shirley… Shirley: …they need to obey the commandments of the lord their god… Hannity: …your entire life is…is now sort of focused on bringing pain to other people; the families of innocent girls who died, the families of innocent soldiers who died, “God hates fags” you put… Shirley: Innocent?!? Hannity: Innocent! Shirley: Look at you throw that word around! Hannity: Innocent! Shirley: It has no definition when you get done with it! Hannity: Those children were more innocent than you, they didn’t sin like you and me have sinned… Shirley: Those children…those children were killed… Hannity: What did they do? Shirley: …at the hands of a raging mad god to punish those families, to punish the state of Pennsylvania, because you’ve got a governor in that state that got on Fox News… Hannity: Now hang on a second… Shirley: …and lambasted us because we serve god. And then you’ve got those people in Pennsylvania that think they can sue us and fix this problem? Hannity: So because you didn’t…hang on a second…because you didn’t like Ed Rendell and what he said, you’re now gonna protest at the funerals to bring pain to the families. Explain that. Shirley: To connect the dots, to connect the dots from point A, your filthy manner of life and your rebellion against god… Hannity: What are your sins Ms. Perfect? Shirley: …and your conduct against the servants of god… Hannity: I wanna know…wait a minute… Shirley: …to point B the dead children. Hannity: …I wanna know what your sins are. Shirley: Well, I’m not gonna talk to you about any of such thing, I don’t glory in my shame… Hannity: Uh huh. Shirley: …like you seem to want to do. Hannity: No…I just find this amazing that everyone else is a big sinner but you and you admit to being a sinner. Shirley: How about you obey the commandments of the lord your god… Hannity: Which ones did you break? Shirley: Obey the commandments of the lord your god. You don’t fix this by saying two wrongs make a right. That’s what you seem to be saying… Hannity: No, what I’m saying is… Shirley: …that you may not say what god requires of you… Hannity: …you know what I’m saying? Shirley: …if you don’t…what? Hannity: (He calls her something but I can’t understand what it is. Sounds like “Eldo” ) I’m speaking to our audience beyond you because you are brain dead. What I’m saying to you is you are a soulless, thoughtless, mean… Shirley: Thoughtless?!? Hannity: …cruel human being. Shirley: Thoughtless?!? Hannity: What you’re doing is mean… Shirley: We go out here year after year after year on our own nickel to warn this nation… Hannity: Listen…listen…listen… Shirley: …that if you obey god he’ll bless you. Hannity: I got that. Now listen very closely. Shirley: Why don’t you just try it!?!? Hannity: Listen to what I’m saying… Shirley: Why don’t you try it? Hannity: Here’s what I’m trying to tell you. Shirley: Obey the commandments of the lord your god… Hannity: Oh shit…Okay, I got that. Shirley: …and get his blessings… Hannity: Now you spoke… Shirley: …back on you…there’s only one remedy… Hannity: Now you listen to me… Shirley: …there’s only one remedy… Hannity: Here’s what your remedy is… Shirley: Repent like the men of Nineveh or you, this nation, is doomed. You think that it’s bad so far? You’re gonna find bodies… Hannity: You know what you are? Shirley: …stacked up so that you can’t even bury them. Hannity: You are a religious nut! Shirley: Then you will obey when god says…(lost the rest in the combined speech of Hannity, Colmes, and Shirley…sounds like “give them a burial” WTF?). Hannity: You are a religious zealot. Colmes: Do you deserve to die too? Shirley: Well, all of us do, every one of us. Colmes: So god’s gonna smite you at some point, right? Shirley: No, I said we all deserve to die but the mercy of god to his people that serve him is what prevails. Colmes: I can’t even get mad at you because you’re so pathetic and what you’re saying is so horrible and so mean-spirited… Shirley: Look hon, you can do all that and call me names, it doesn’t fix this! You have got the wrath of god pouring out on your head... Colmes: Thanks for letting me know. Shirley: …you need to fix that by obeying and…(something) Repent! Like the men of Nineveh. Colmes: Thanks for the lecture. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ All the more reason not to accept that bastard god of theirs. Kills little girls. And what about the poor guy that did it? He had no choice. GAWD controlled his heart. We're all just puppets in his sick play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Hey, AgnosticBob..great work on the transcribing..just wish you would have put something like "fundy bitch" or anything besides her first name..(which I share..wish I could change that!) That woman is sick. Her and her whole clan. Perhaps if they had protested at those funerals..something would have been done about them.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Hey, AgnosticBob..great work on the transcribing..just wish you would have put something like "fundy bitch" or anything besides her first name..(which I share..wish I could change that!) That woman is sick. Her and her whole clan. Perhaps if they had protested at those funerals..something would have been done about them.. Well, I originally had Squirrely...but took it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin webmdave Posted October 11, 2006 Author Admin Share Posted October 11, 2006 Mind if I post your transcription on the blog page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Well, I originally had Squirrely...but took it off. Maybe I'll just change my name to Squirrely... Nah..I'll just stick with Lizard.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Thanks for the transcript, ABAP. I have very confusing feelings about the whole thing. If that woman is sick, then so are a whole lot of other people on this continent including the Amish. That woman kept her cool no matter what they did to her. That is impressive. BUT do you people here know the Amish? From what I have seen of that culture, they are exactly like that woman. Another way to look at the incident is that these girls were rescued from a life of torture in a closed religious cult. Look at what that cult does to its kids. Where were the men? The boys in that school? They were hiding out somewhere praying. Had they known karade maybe those girls would be alive today. But all they had been taught was to "turn the other cheek" and pray. That these boys followed their faith into the face of traumatic situations like this is admirable. BUT their God did not answer. Their god did not care that their sisters were being raped and shot. In the face of that, perhaps the most comforting religious answer the families can come up with is the Phelps answer: They had displeased God and brought it upon themselves. This is a call to repentence. If they repent God will have mercy on them. That kind of reasoning has its own form of consolation. It puts THEM in control. All they have to do is REPENT. And repent they will if that ensures life--both temporal and eternal. I don't know that specific Amish community but I come from a part of that culture and most of you here have read some of my horror stories. The Amish are idealized out of all proportion. What happens behind closed door is not aired by the media. I am not defending the Phelps. I am simply expressing why I feel so confused about all the fuss. Protesting at funerals must be the most horrendous form of religion known to humanity. However, the message that woman tried to get out, the steadfast faith in the face of serious public verbal abuse--that is part and parcel of the Amish religion. I think I am just trying to bring some balance to this discussion. There is another side to this coin that I suspect most people here don't know exists. And that really bothers me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurari Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 That kind of reasoning has its own form of consolation. It puts THEM in control. All they have to do is REPENT. And repent they will if that ensures life--both temporal and eternal. That's an excellent point. At least when life hands you tragedy because you did something wrong, you have the ability to change it for the future. But when a madman just runs into your child's school and kills them...it's so senseless. So pointless. It makes you helpless because nothing you could ever do would have changed the outcome. Looking at it like that, it's a pretty tough life lesson. So I can see why people "need" god and prayer in their lives. That's a tough pill to swallow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I don't know that specific Amish community but I come from a part of that culture and most of you here have read some of my horror stories. The Amish are idealized out of all proportion. What happens behind closed door is not aired by the media. True. Ive been kind of irked lately by how the news has been praising how the Amish had "forgiven the killer" and even showed up a this funeral. My first thought was: "Good thing the guy killed himself or they just might have insisted on not pressing charges." Just like with sex offenders in their communities. Forgive and forget, repeat as necessary. RubySera, I haven't read your stories but I have heard documentaries on the stuff that goes on in Amsih communities. Nasty stuff too. I did a research project on the Amish for my sociology class, when I presented these scenarios (sexual abuse, animal cruelty, etc) the people in the class were basically like: "no way!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted October 12, 2006 Share Posted October 12, 2006 I don't know that specific Amish community but I come from a part of that culture and most of you here have read some of my horror stories. The Amish are idealized out of all proportion. What happens behind closed door is not aired by the media. True. Ive been kind of irked lately by how the news has been praising how the Amish had "forgiven the killer" and even showed up a this funeral. My first thought was: "Good thing the guy killed himself or they just might have insisted on not pressing charges." Just like with sex offenders in their communities. Forgive and forget, repeat as necessary. RubySera, I haven't read your stories but I have heard documentaries on the stuff that goes on in Amsih communities. Nasty stuff too. I did a research project on the Amish for my sociology class, when I presented these scenarios (sexual abuse, animal cruelty, etc) the people in the class were basically like: "no way!" I'm so glad someone believes me. I was almost afraid to post that message because people here might attack me for not being in sync with their feelings. Cruelty to animals was a huge one for me when growing up. Sometimes I believed Dad was right and that beating a beast was the only way to train it like he said. Other times I felt he was violating basic rights of the helpless animal in his power. When he told me he had beaten my horse for not letting him pass through its stall, I got very badly upset and I let him know it. It was a very terrible situation for me. I could not stand it that he treated my horse that way, yet I also knew he had the power to retaliate on me if he didn't like that I was upset. Fortunately, he seemed to respect me and my wishes but he did tell me he will be glad when that horse moves out of his barn. I was living at home for a limited time so that was okay more or less. I still believed he might learn better ways to get the cooperation of animals than beating the daylights out of them. I lived and worked in many different homes in the community and nowhere did I see people abusing animals like he did. There are many parallels between how a person treats his animals and how he treats his children. Both are at his mercy and discretion and he is responsible for the training of both. I think he just took the "beating into submission" mentality a bit more literally than many people did. It seems to be the mentality of such communities. The churches do it to their members and the members do it to each other. Shirley Phelps-Roper only encapsulates and airs it while these communities keep it behind closed doors. The public is shocked and outraged when she does it but they turn a blind eye and deaf ear to the blatant lack of protection offered these kids. What out-rages me is that everybody in the school meekly obeyed the lunatic in order to save their own skins and LEFT THE POOR GIRLS ALONE AND UNPROTECTED. It seems the only adult on the scene fled to call the police and left a sixteen-year-old assistent teacher in charge. WHY did she not send the sixteen-year-old for help and at the very least confront the mad man and tell him "You touch these kids over my dead body." Maybe I am naive. Maybe the case was handled in the best possible way. It just seems to me that there is more wrong with the situation than Shirley Phelps-Roper. Okay, this is just me venting. I confess I am terribly biased. I am a victim of this type of community. I see the Amish as just as bad people as most of you see Christians in general because they are the type of Christians at whose hands I suffered severe abuse on the emotional, verbal, spiritual and psychological levels. The psych textbooks do not explain how a person in such a situation survives and thrives. They say such situations end in suicide, or incurable mental illness, or scarred lives on the level of being incapable of functioning. I barely escaped with my life but I did escape. Suicide did not quite claim me but was it ever close! I spent an entire day doing nothing but focusing on staying alive from one breath to the next. That was just before I got crowded out of the church for being who I was born to be. There was another episode a few weeks later after I had gone public. It was somewhat milder in that it lasted only a matter of hours rather than an entire day. Others are forced to choose between being deathly ill and leaving the community in order to use the medicine that provides relief. In one family where the mother has a mental illness the church took the children away with the father's consent, and places a stranglehold on the mother so that she barely gets a chance to see her children. Children's Aid checked the situation out and ruled that the children were being cared for adequately at home. Leaving the community automatically opens one up for severe persecution from the church. In other words, people are punished severely for leaving. And life inside is made impossible. For those people who fit in, life is just fine. For for the misfit, it's torture. Many suffer from mental illness as a result. And this is the kind of community the media idealizes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Mind if I post your transcription on the blog page? Absolutely not. Be my guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgnosticBob AtheistPants Posted October 13, 2006 Share Posted October 13, 2006 Okay, this is just me venting. I confess I am terribly biased. I am a victim of this type of community. I see the Amish as just as bad people as most of you see Christians in general because they are the type of Christians at whose hands I suffered severe abuse on the emotional, verbal, spiritual and psychological levels. The psych textbooks do not explain how a person in such a situation survives and thrives. They say such situations end in suicide, or incurable mental illness, or scarred lives on the level of being incapable of functioning. Ruby, I don't condone or accept anything the Amish do either. In my opinion, they are no better than the Phelps'. The fact of this matter is that the Phelps' were planning on doing their bullshit at the funerals of young and yes, INNOCENT children. These girls were being indoctrinated into the Amish community.. Most of them were young enough to not know any better and were just following the example of their parents and the other adults in their community. None of this has been about "Oh those poor Amish. They didn't deserve this because they're so good and right." Well...not in this post anyway. Yes, the media has thrown it's general twist into it. Got to make one out to be the good guy and one to be the bad guy. That's just the way it works in that industry. But here in this post at least, I really don't think anyone is saying "Oh those poor Amish." In general it's "Those poor girls." Fuck their religion. They are humans and did not deserve what they got. For Squirrely Phelps-Roper to sit their and say that they DESERVED it and they got it because god had it out for the state of Pennsylvania due to the governor's lambast of the Westboro Baptist Church is absolute INSANITY. That's what this whole post is about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Okay, this is just me venting. I confess I am terribly biased. I am a victim of this type of community. I see the Amish as just as bad people as most of you see Christians in general because they are the type of Christians at whose hands I suffered severe abuse on the emotional, verbal, spiritual and psychological levels. The psych textbooks do not explain how a person in such a situation survives and thrives. They say such situations end in suicide, or incurable mental illness, or scarred lives on the level of being incapable of functioning. Ruby, I don't condone or accept anything the Amish do either. In my opinion, they are no better than the Phelps'. The fact of this matter is that the Phelps' were planning on doing their bullshit at the funerals of young and yes, INNOCENT children. These girls were being indoctrinated into the Amish community.. Most of them were young enough to not know any better and were just following the example of their parents and the other adults in their community. None of this has been about "Oh those poor Amish. They didn't deserve this because they're so good and right." Well...not in this post anyway. Yes, the media has thrown it's general twist into it. Got to make one out to be the good guy and one to be the bad guy. That's just the way it works in that industry. But here in this post at least, I really don't think anyone is saying "Oh those poor Amish." In general it's "Those poor girls." Fuck their religion. They are humans and did not deserve what they got. For Squirrely Phelps-Roper to sit their and say that they DESERVED it and they got it because god had it out for the state of Pennsylvania due to the governor's lambast of the Westboro Baptist Church is absolute INSANITY. That's what this whole post is about. Bob, thanks for clarifying. I did indeed understand that people were saying "Oh those poor Amish." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsmoke Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 I think I am just trying to bring some balance to this discussion. There is another side to this coin that I suspect most people here don't know exists. And that really bothers me. Coming from a "cult" of my own--I live in Utah and was raised in a small town 30 miles west-southwest of Salt Lake City--this rings very familiar with me. The thought had never occurred to me that there exists a "dark side" to the Amish religion--I'm afraid I'm just as ignorant of the it as most other "outsiders." Considering how many rumors, misunderstandings, horror stories and blatantly false bullshit I've encountered in people with just as little familiarity with the LDS religion, however, I can certainly understand your point of view. Of course, few people are as completely ignorant of the history and details of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as its members... I seem to have been extraordinarily lucky. I couldn't have asked for better parents or family; looking back on it now I think my loss of faith may well have caused me more stress than it did my parents--my Mom was worried sick, to be sure, but that was rooted almost entirely in the fact that I'd "run away" and stayed with a friend for a few days without telling them where I was going while I worked through my "crisis." When I eventually came home, she probably wouldn't have cared if I'd converted to Satanism, she was just glad I was alive and well. I've heard from others, though, whose experiences growing up in the LDS religion were not so fortunate. People who have rather unpleasant memories much akin to yours. It's ironic that even as a deconvert I sometimes find it difficult to believe the accounts of abuse by parents or other "authority figures" justifying it (rightly, according to doctrine) with their religion, simply because I had such a(n uncommonly) positive experience (or neutral, at worst) with the same organization. People just don't seem to want to believe that we're all human; that even the best among us are just as lible to do terrible things as "habitual offenders." I suppose it makes life seem easier/rosier when one can safely and neatly categorize "them" away from "us." They don't have to deal with the ugliness of life. The tragedy of this--one which they'll never know--is they'll never experience the real beauty of life, either. Thank you for telling us the things you do. I doubt I'll ever have anywhere near as comprehensive a knowledge and understanding of the Amish as I do of the Mormons, but I appreciate the information nonetheless. It's comforting to make the acquaintance of others who've "escaped" the close confines of an exclusive and widely misunderstood organization, despite having had such disparate experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted October 14, 2006 Share Posted October 14, 2006 Woodsmoke, I appreciate your letter. I don't think the Amish religion is better or worse than the religion of other very conservative Christians. I have no experience with a literal "small town," but I have my "exclusivist community" experience and also several weeks' experience living in another "exclusivist community" as an outsider. It was a totally different culture from my own, ethnically and religiously. I lived with a few different host families during that time. What I saw in that community was identical to what I had seen in my native community--the gossip, the divisions along family lines, and family feuds raging for generations. Based on what I've read re small towns I think it's very similar. People know each other's business almost as well as their own and make it their business to mind other people's business and judge those whom they don't like based on irreconcilable misconceptions...the whole bit. Every positive has its negative. This seems to be the negative to the positives of small town intimacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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