Gun Control Hypocrisy

[neverclear5]

The fact is, its a very complex issue. People who yell "no more guns!" without providing an alternative are just stupid. My main objection to guns is not because I'm scared of them myself. Frankly I'm as much of a gun nut as an englishman can be as we can't really own anything proper. I would very much like to carry a gun myself but I don't want everyone else to. Unfortunately thats not gonna happen and so, if it keeps them out of everyone elses hand then I'll give up mine. My objection really stems from my own abilities. I've always been a good shot, I was on a shooting team when I was younger. I'm nothing special, but with a decent semi auto rifle and a good position I could take out a fair few people before anyone could do anything about it. Pistols are a different matter, but I still find the idea that the drunk whose girl left him for a guy who looks quite like me could have a gun under his jacket. I don't neccesarily think its the guns fault but americans seem to shoot each other an awful lot more than anyone else, even countries with higher firearm ownership. Perhaps america should examine itself a little before it gives out the weapons.

I would also say that for every guy with a knife who gets stopped in a walmart, who could probably have been wrestled down by a couple of guys, there's a guy who finds out his wife is cheating on him and goes hunting them both with his self defence tool.

 

 

P.S. wouldn't it be better to get better security at the college then? I know its not your responsibility but it might keep people from reaching for the ammo box.

[Dave]

But surely it's better to prevent crime happening than arm yourself against it.

The only way to prevent crime it to lock everybody up, or to kill everyone--both of which would be crimes themselves of course......

That's not true. The crime mentioned here could have been prevented as was suggested, by walking with an escort. Better education, better ways of dealing with miscreants, would go much further than arming the public. Vigilantism is not progress.

[Dave]

...The majority of people I've met that want strict gun control are sometimes afraid of guns, but most of the time have never really handled one or been taught how too. The gun control issue is like abortion, lots of opinions, good arguments either way, but is hard to solve.

I was in the USNavy for 10 years. In Hawaii I was on the base pistol team. I consistently scored 300 or better. On my bad days I scored in the 250s. I also had a 55 cal. muzzle loader. Now that was fun! I've probably owned over a hundred different guns. All but the muzzle loader were kept locked up at the gun range. I know guns. I will not allow any firearms on my property now and I own no guns now nor do I feel any desire to acquire any.

 

Then I am not for "strict" gun control either. I'd prefer our society goes in a different direction. Reduce/prevent crimes via methods other than killing people. Arming everyone will just increase the killing.

[Wertbag]

There are alternatives of course, as Dakota said "The four attempted rapes were stopped because 2 women had guns, a third had pepper spray, and the fourth was just one strong bitch who fought the guy off"

So the use of a can of mace or martial arts/self defence training succeeded twice as well. In Dakota's case if she had reached into her bag and pulled out a can of mace rather than a gun the criminal still gets neutralised, she is protected but there is no requirement for deadly force.

I'm all for vast supplies of pepper spray to be given out. Its still a ranged weapon, easy to use, cheap, portable, mis-fire does no lasting damage, theres no great risk if children get hold of it and if taken off you can not be used to kill you in return.

I would also love to see self defence and/or martial arts taught in schools. Make it free, make it fun and make it relevant to real life situations.

[Dakota]

 

 

 

P.S. wouldn't it be better to get better security at the college then? I know its not your responsibility but it might keep people from reaching for the ammo box.

 

 

I thought I mentioned that our college does have security, lots of them in fact, but they are useless. The just sit in their SUV's and don't do anything. Two kids from the college broke into a girls car and stole her purse. They did this by smashing out the passenger window (with one of those window breaker tool things) campus security was parked ONE CAR OVER, and never even noticed, until another student driving by saw the two kids in the act!

[Dakota]

I don't think that vigilantism (sp?) is the answer either. I don't know what the answer is. In my previous post where I mentioned people who are for gun control are often afraid of guns, I am not saying ALL people are afraid, I was specifically refering to the one's I've met in real life.

 

I agree that in my case, pepper spray would have been just as effective. It is my choice to carry a gun. The guy that jumped me was charged with attempted rape, he had a criminal record as long as my arm, and was only sentenced to 1 year and ended up getting probation after six months for "good behaviour". I had the oppurtunity to kill this man, I didn't, because he backed off, if he would have kept at it, I would have killed him. I don't know how I would have felt about taking his life if I would have done so, after his sentencing the I thought, "Okay, 1 year, big deal, then he will just go after someone else and who knows how many he may rape, maybe I should have killed him" That may sound absolutely horrible of me to think, but it's what honestly ran through my mind. I cannot in all honestly say that I feel bad when I hear of a rapist or attempted rapist being killed. I just do not have the capacity to feel sorry for a person who tries to violate another human being in that way.

 

As far as saying having an escort or "buddy-system" would have prevented this is utter bullshit. Our college refuses to post the "criminal happenings" that go on there (most other colleges I know of do this). There are numerous instances every year, where women, in groups of two or three, have been jumped by men (not just for rape, a lot of muggings and beatings). Sure, most of the time when women have someone else with them they fight off the attacker, but not before getting punched or kicked or spit on.

 

I'm not trying to make my college sound like the most dangerous place on earth, but its not a fluffy bunny place either. There is just a general lack of respect where I go to school. A lot of the guys there think they are big bad gang members or something, and take their anger out on innocent females walking to their cars.

 

I love my guns, I'm sort of a collecter, I grew up with them. But I do see that America has such a high rate of gun related fatalities compared to the rest of the world, and I don't honestly know why that is or how to solve it.

 

Hopefully next year, I can transfer to a different college.

[neverclear5]

I have to agree, If you had shot him I would have said no more than "pity". With regard for security, I did say get "better security". The jokers you describe should be out on their ear and replaced. With the buddy system thing, I would prefer the odd punch to routine armament. Also, I would suggest, walk with a guy. I'm aware it sounds very sexist to say you need a big strong man to protect you but its just a practicality thing really. I would advise the same to a physically weak man. And I know it wouldn't solve all problems but remember, if you can get a gun, whats to stop the rapist getting one. If he'd put a gun to your head straight away would you still have tryed to grab yours? A rapist is unlikely to have plenty of mates to go around with so if groups are the best weapon available, he's screwed.

[Dakota]

I have to agree, If you had shot him I would have said no more than "pity". With regard for security, I did say get "better security". The jokers you describe should be out on their ear and replaced. With the buddy system thing, I would prefer the odd punch to routine armament. Also, I would suggest, walk with a guy. I'm aware it sounds very sexist to say you need a big strong man to protect you but its just a practicality thing really. I would advise the same to a physically weak man. And I know it wouldn't solve all problems but remember, if you can get a gun, whats to stop the rapist getting one. If he'd put a gun to your head straight away would you still have tryed to grab yours? A rapist is unlikely to have plenty of mates to go around with so if groups are the best weapon available, he's screwed.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't notice you said "better" security, I thought you got the impression we didn't have any. If he would have put a gun to my head, I can't say for sure what I would have done, but I think I probably would have went for mine anyway. Rape is so vile on so many levels I think I would have done whatever possible to prevent it from happening to me, even if I got killed in the process. May sound strange, but I don't know how I would deal with the trauma of being raped. At our college if the security would just step up and do their jobs, this wouldn't be such a huge issue. I think carrying a gun is just my own personal choice, others may not feel the same way and choose not too. I prefer to have guns, as I metioned before I am somewhat of a collecter, many of them have been passed down through our family for decades, some no longer even work, but the fact that a great grandfather owned it, inspires me to keep it.

 

I don't know what the answer is for America when it comes to guns, I don't know why we have such a high crime rate compared to other nations. I think the gun control issue will be argued about for a long time to come, maybe it will never be resolved. The only thing I can bring to the table is that I choose to carry a gun, not at all times, but at least in my home and in my vehicle. I'm responsible and know how to handle a gun, so I guess I just can't see anything wrong with that.

[neverclear5]

[Dakota]

The only thing I can bring to the table is that I choose to carry a gun, not at all times, but at least in my home and in my vehicle. I'm responsible and know how to handle a gun, so I guess I just can't see anything wrong with that.

 

 

I can't see anything wrong with it either. I mentioned before I'd like to do the same. Thing is, the law that lets us have them lets others have them too. I guess I'd rather be safe than sorry, which ironically is also the reason I'd want a weapon.

 

On a seperate note, if security are that incompetant then they should be charged as accomplice's in any occuring rape.

 

Rape is a strange crime. Excluding any rough treatment, the actual physical act is similar to a pleasurable activity. The difference is all in the head, but thats where the damage is done too. I tend to find closing myself off fairly easy but I'd probably feel compelled to track the guy down afterwards and get some serious revenge. Then again, perhaps I'd become a wimpering wreck. I think the worst part for me would be the feeling of being weak. I guess no-one knows how they would take it but I'm very glad you didn't have to find out.

 

P.S. I'm a straight guy if you were wondering, but people tell me I often talk like a women. Perhaps a male lesbian, in the eddie izzard vein. Although I'm less ambivalent towards my own genitalia.

 

P.P.S. upon re-reading this is a very odd post for a gun control topic!

[woodsmoke]

Thing is, the law that lets us have them lets others have them too.

 

I've seen this argument used numerous times now, and I still have yet to see the logic in it.

 

Outlawing guns serves only one purpose: to disarm lawful citizens. One way or another, criminals are going to get ahold of a firearm regardless of what the law may be. That's why they're called criminals.

 

As for the reason the U.S. has such a higher crime rate than other advanced Western nations, I can tell you at least part of the reason is simply that ours is a much more violent society. The U.S.A. is the land in which it's perfectly acceptable to take a child to a movie theater where they'll see incredible amounts of violence and quite possibly a fair bit of blood, gore and unsociable behavior--but show a kid a female nipple and you're packed away to the Big House. American "morals" are the butt of every liberal joke in existence ("But we don't say 'butt,' we say 'behind.'")

 

I advocate responsible gun ownership because, despite that I trust most people, I know there are those out there who simply refuse to act decently toward other folks. It doesn't matter how many peacable, law-abiding citizens are a part of your wonderful gun-free society; all it takes is one guy with no respect/concern for the law and other people to bring down the whole house of cards.

[neverclear5]

Thing is, the law that lets us have them lets others have them too.

 

I've seen this argument used numerous times now, and I still have yet to see the logic in it.

 

Outlawing guns serves only one purpose: to disarm lawful citizens. One way or another, criminals are going to get ahold of a firearm regardless of what the law may be. That's why they're called criminals.

 

 

The criminals arn't the ones I'm worried about. They can get them easier when they are available to the general public, but thats not the point. Plenty of sick fuckers pay taxes. Plenty of them haven't been convicted YET. Plenty of them I wouldn't trust with a can opener. This idea that there is a criminal class that are born that way and pray on the rest of use "lawful citizens" is absolute bollocks.

[woodsmoke]

You're right, easier access to firearms probably does facilitate more crimes than would happen without them.

 

I'm just trying to be practical. It would be great if guns didn't exist and we didn't have to worry about the trouble caused by people who shouldn't have them. While we're at it, it would be great if cancer, AIDS, poverty, hunger and inequality disappeared overnight.

 

The unfortunate truth of the matter is guns are here, and they're here to stay. No matter how hard we try, we can't reseal Pandora's Box, and to attempt it is futile. That being the case, the best we can do is learn and teach each other to live in this shitty world we find ourselves in to the best of our ability.