The Unforgivable Sin And The Holy Spirit.

[Shawn]

Ok, I have been thinking about this lately. I wanted to pose this to you guys and gals. Feedback please!

 

1. The ‘unforgivable sin’, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Why is it that the general teaching is that if you are worried you did it, you didn’t do it? I have personally known people who spoke against ‘Him’ repeatedly, and then went back and all was forgiven (Bible God loved them again, they were back witnessing, ect…). Why is this?

 

2. The Holy Spirit. When you become a Christian, you ‘receive’ ‘Him’. Why do so many Christians have unstable personalities? Even the more stable ones who can be kind and loving (to a degree). If ‘He’ is from Bible God, shouldn’t a person’s life reflect peace, calm, truth, morality, order, ect? Why do so many Christians lie for Bible God? If ‘He’ is supposed to make a person ‘perfect’ and teach them how, why are there so many Christians who have borderline personalities? Technically, a person only has to ask for Jesus to save them, and would then have the HS, who should easily be able to teach them the entire Bible and how to please Bible God. Yet, I don’t see this. I asked this same question on Christianity.com October last year, and some decent Christians did respond, but none had a real answer for me (I got a lot of “Brother, run back to Him quickly!” and theories about the level of their faith). One of the moderators (as well as 3 other Christian thugs) there insulted me blatantly, who has been ‘saved’ for 6+ years and is married, ect…my post was removed a few hours later, including the other Christians who replied to me. And I was permanently banned from that site’s forums. I had a private e-mail from the head cheese there that said my post had the potential of ruining many Christian’s faith (and I was asked to not come back as well). But yet a Christian is *supposed* to have an answer for their faith. I’ll dig up the e-mail for you all.

 

 

Shawn

[ShackledNoMore]

1. The ‘unforgivable sin’, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Why is it that the general teaching is that if you are worried you did it, you didn’t do it? I have personally known people who spoke against ‘Him’ repeatedly, and then went back and all was forgiven (Bible God loved them again, they were back witnessing, ect…). Why is this?

I wasn't aware that the general teaching was that if you are worried that you did it, then you didn't do it, but it doesn't surprise me. I've had exactly one conversation about this with a born again christian/apologist (of the "it's possible to lose your salvation" school).

 

I pointed out that under the premise that god existed and his belief were basically correct, that I was already damned to an eternity in hell and that it was a done deal, nothing could change that. My argument was basically as follows: there were three ways (according to his beliefs) that one could guarantee a place in hell and not be able to change that even though you haven't died: rejecting christ AFTER you were born again, blaspheming the holy spirit, and taking the mark of the beast. I then continued: it was easy, thanks to the black and white mentality xianity demands. I was either "truly saved ™" or not. If I was truly saved, then I rejected christ and am now doomed to an eternity in hell no matter what I do. If I was not truly saved, then I spoke in tongues under the guise of having received a gift from the holy spirit when I wasn't even a xian. Considering the draconian seriousness his brethren consider everything else as attacks against god, this would have clearly been blasphemy against the holy spirit, and again I am doomed to an eternity in hell no matter what I do. He backpeddled in a display that was perfectly consistent with what you describe, telling me that it has to be REALLY deliberate and serious to be construed as blasphemy, and unfortunately, it didn't provide a reason in his mind to stop trying to win me over for christ. Of course he was only one data point (and I'm not about to gather more), but I always assumed that if I had that conversation with more xians, they would think that satan was deceiving me (I heard enough of that when I was in fundyland).

 

Although I wasn't already specifically aware that this particular line of thought was common among xians, it seems to follow the rampant tendency of xians to discard consistency on the slightest whim when it isn't convenient, and it's what I'd expect. They constantly hear the mantra to spread the word: that everyone can be saved. Even when they believe that you can be eternally damned before death by blaspheming the holy spirit based on their interpretation of their own text, it seems to not register in their heads, and gets overridden the instant they start preaching to you.

[riverbank]

Ok, I have been thinking about this lately. I wanted to pose this to you guys and gals. Feedback please!

 

1. The ‘unforgivable sin’, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Why is it that the general teaching is that if you are worried you did it, you didn’t do it? I have personally known people who spoke against ‘Him’ repeatedly, and then went back and all was forgiven (Bible God loved them again, they were back witnessing, ect…). Why is this?

 

2. The Holy Spirit. When you become a Christian, you ‘receive’ ‘Him’. Why do so many Christians have unstable personalities? Even the more stable ones who can be kind and loving (to a degree). If ‘He’ is from Bible God, shouldn’t a person’s life reflect peace, calm, truth, morality, order, ect? Why do so many Christians lie for Bible God? If ‘He’ is supposed to make a person ‘perfect’ and teach them how, why are there so many Christians who have borderline personalities? Technically, a person only has to ask for Jesus to save them, and would then have the HS, who should easily be able to teach them the entire Bible and how to please Bible God. Yet, I don’t see this. I asked this same question on Christianity.com October last year, and some decent Christians did respond, but none had a real answer for me (I got a lot of “Brother, run back to Him quickly!” and theories about the level of their faith). One of the moderators (as well as 3 other Christian thugs) there insulted me blatantly, who has been ‘saved’ for 6+ years and is married, ect…my post was removed a few hours later, including the other Christians who replied to me. And I was permanently banned from that site’s forums. I had a private e-mail from the head cheese there that said my post had the potential of ruining many Christian’s faith (and I was asked to not come back as well). But yet a Christian is *supposed* to have an answer for their faith. I’ll dig up the e-mail for you all.

 

 

Shawn

 

 

what you mentioned in question 1 is further proof that christianity is a load of bullshit. If someone has spoken out against the Spirit, that should be it right? THE BIBLE SAYS SO! But God supposedly forgives them. No, actually, the Holy Spirit is little more than a good feeling within someone.

I would like to see that email! Even though I don't go around trying to persuade people to give up their faith, I think I would count it a privilege if someone told me that 'my post had the potential of ruining many Christians' faith'.

[Shawn]

what you mentioned in question 1 is further proof that christianity is a load of bullshit. If someone has spoken out against the Spirit, that should be it right? THE BIBLE SAYS SO! But God supposedly forgives them. No, actually, the Holy Spirit is little more than a good feeling within someone.

I would like to see that email! Even though I don't go around trying to persuade people to give up their faith, I think I would count it a privilege if someone told me that 'my post had the potential of ruining many Christians' faith'.

 

Grrr! I can't find it. I think I just deleted it all. But yeah, it was Christianity.com. Bunch of chickenshit pussies. All these king shit super Christian mods who admitted they didn't have an answer for me. I think that says it all, when they do the equivalent of a K-Line on your account and block your IP and tell you don't come back.

 

All the baby Christian little piggies, waiting for their faith to be killed, for one reason: too big of a coward to do exactly what the Bible says. My point being, if you really believe, you would do everything. If I was going to a follower of the Goddess Hathor (Egyptian), I'd have to follow the rules. If I did, I can bet she would 'manifest'.

 

But anyway, the Bible contradicts itself, so doing what it says will eventually have your mind spinning in a flushed toilet of confusion. I've told Christians before, "I say the prayer of Jabez." OH MY!!! God isin't our Genie brother!" Really? The Bible actually says He is! ASK, and you will GET IT. "He wants to give good things to those who ask!" No caveats!

 

I have a mansion and 10 million in my bank account, and 3 hot girls at my pad. OH, we aren't fornicating, they are my concubines! I told God I wanted to be like Solomon. Poof! I got it! So I am a Jabez-Solomonian YHWH believer. I don't follow the NT. I don't have to! Nya nya nya! God filled my barn and extended my lands, na na na na naaa! Fuck you Christians! HERETICS! YHWH told Jaysus to leave me alone..."don't burden him with that friggin spirit of yours, makes him nutty! If I hear one more time you tried to 'baptize' him, you'll be ruling hell instead, Jaysus!" I'm happier now. *Shawn does a mexican hat dance* praise YHWH, but fuck Jesus!

 

I know..."Shawn, what was THAT all about?!" Well, according to the Bible, I can do what I just said! It's in the Bible!

 

I love how anyone who tries to be 'righteous' before others, in any religion, it ALWAYS entails self suffering. Ever see those stupid ass hindu's in that dead cow infested river, praying for forgivness? Wailing and acting like nutjobs! The Japanese shintoists believe someone can sacrifice themselves, and it will atone for another's sins! Buddists have similar beliefs, and are big on "vows of poverty" to "go to Heaven". Fucking mental cases!

 

Ok, I am back to Earth now. But, maybe I will sneak in again to Christianity.com, and pose the same questions. It's been a year. I'll do my best :-)

 

 

Happy New Year, toot a horn, go out with your girlfriend, have some killer sex. Be bless...opps! May really nice and good things happen to you all!

 

 

Shawn

 

p.s. Remember the new date on your checks!

[Poonis]

Interesting, isn't it, that you didn't know about the Holy Spirit (as well as the boogey monster, santa claus, peter pan, and so on) until someone else first told you about it and/or you read about it somewhere. If there were some supernatural power, wouldn't you think that you would be born with it as an inherent knowledge or ability of some sort?

 

For example, no one needed to tell you about gravity in order for you become acclimated with it.

[Guest Passing Thru]

I'm a new member to this site and have been reading your comments Shawn. Let me be honest up front.

 

I'm a Christian. I'm no better or no worse than the next guy. But I believe that for this life to have any purpose at all, there has to be a God. You obviously dont agree, and thats fine. Following on from that, I find out about God and His purpose in my life through reading the Bible and praying to Him (big yawn from you).

 

You seem to be judging Christianity by looking at Christians rather than at what God says in His Word. Christians are fallible, they make mistakes, they say the wrong things, they do the wrong things (I know I do!) I'm sorry you have had a bad experience on some Christian website. That was wrong. And believe it or not, Christians don't have ALL the answers. Only God has the answers.

 

I believe that ANYONE who sincerely gave their life over to God has been saved from their sins, forever. That cannot be taken away from them. If a person has asked God to be Lord of their life, thats exactly what He does. And if HE's Lord of that person's life, then its impossible to stop being a Christian, its a contradiction. I believe there is no such thing as an ex-Christian. Its not in our power to be ex-Christians, because our salvation is a gift from God, its not something we have done.

 

A lot of people on this site have been hurt by Christians and the Church. I can see that. But not one has been hurt by God. The fact that you are all posting your views here, indicates to me that you are seeking, and thats good. I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Skankboy]

Welcome to the forums Passing Thru, I hope you don't live up to your name in this case. I'd like to comment on some of your post:

 

You seem to be judging Christianity by looking at Christians rather than at what God says in His Word.

I know it can seem that way, and certainly, we do look to the actions of Christians as a reflection of the relgion itself (fruit of the spirit and all that). But in reality, we don't hate christians. We have a healthy group of christians here who seem to get along with us just fine. What we have a problem with (primarily) is the theology.

 

I believe that ANYONE who sincerely gave their life over to God has been saved from their sins, forever. That cannot be taken away from them. If a person has asked God to be Lord of their life, thats exactly what He does. And if HE's Lord of that person's life, then its impossible to stop being a Christian, its a contradiction. I believe there is no such thing as an ex-Christian. Its not in our power to be ex-Christians, because our salvation is a gift from God, its not something we have done.

I know you mean well, but this really is a very arrogant and rude thing to say. Essentially, you are calling us all liars. I know your theology says there can't be such a thing as an ex-christian, but the fact that we exist alone should be enough to call that into doubt. What's that? We were never "TRUE CHRISTIANS"? Who are you to judge? Are you soooo sure of your interpretation of the bible that you are willing to right off our own experiences as christians so easily?

 

A lot of people on this site have been hurt by Christians and the Church. I can see that. But not one has been hurt by God. The fact that you are all posting your views here, indicates to me that you are seeking, and thats good. I hope you find what you are looking for.

This is another common misconception many Christians hold. I was not hurt by the Church or Christians. Certainly, I saw a lot of hypocrisy in both, but that wasn't the reason. I'm not a christian because I looked critically at the bible, the history of the church and the theology and found it wanting. Was my leaving purely intellectual? Of course not. No decision of this magnitude could be made for purely intellectual reasons.

 

If you haven't already, I'd recommend you read some of the testimonials to get a better idea of why people left christianity. In additioni, I would recommend you start looking at your own belief a little more critically. If you are unable or unwilling to do so, what does that say about your beliefs?

 

IMOHO,

[Scarlett]

1. The ‘unforgivable sin’, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Why is it that the general teaching is that if you are worried you did it, you didn’t do it? I have personally known people who spoke against ‘Him’ repeatedly, and then went back and all was forgiven (Bible God loved them again, they were back witnessing, ect…). Why is this?

 

Well from what I remember one church taught that you could only commit the unforgivable sin during the tribulation. Thus, they'd rationalize that since the tribulation hasn't happened yet, no one has committed the unforgivable sin. Another church taught that you couldn't commit the unforgivable sin unless you were one of the elect, and none of the elect would ever do such a thing, so you couldn't have committed it. Basically it's all rationalization, they all love to preach about how their god forgives everything, yet there is that pesky problem of the unforgivable sin, so they try to make it the un-commitable sin.

 

 

2. The Holy Spirit. When you become a Christian, you ‘receive’ ‘Him’. Why do so many Christians have unstable personalities? Even the more stable ones who can be kind and loving (to a degree). If ‘He’ is from Bible God, shouldn’t a person’s life reflect peace, calm, truth, morality, order, ect?

Actually the 'holy spirit' does reflect the god of the bible's personality quite well if you think about it. You have to admit he was a very unstable character. I believe its psychological, the Christians either consciously or unconsciously take on the attributes of the god they are worshiping. So well they preach that their god is all loving etc...anyone who can read can see otherwise. Even if they don't acknowledge it.

 

 

Why do so many Christians lie for Bible God? If ‘He’ is supposed to make a person ‘perfect’ and teach them how, why are there so many Christians who have borderline personalities? Technically, a person only has to ask for Jesus to save them, and would then have the HS, who should easily be able to teach them the entire Bible and how to please Bible God. Yet, I don’t see this.

 

Christians have to do a great deal of rationalization in their minds in order to try to keep their sanity, of course all that does really is have the opposite effect. (Which is why I believe Christianity drives people to insanity.) They lie for their god the same way in which an abused spouse might lie for their abuser, they don't want to face up to the facts, they wish to pretend all is well.

 

 

I asked this same question on Christianity.com October last year, and some decent Christians did respond, but none had a real answer for me (I got a lot of “Brother, run back to Him quickly!” and theories about the level of their faith). One of the moderators (as well as 3 other Christian thugs) there insulted me blatantly, who has been ‘saved’ for 6+ years and is married, ect…my post was removed a few hours later, including the other Christians who replied to me. And I was permanently banned from that site’s forums. I had a private e-mail from the head cheese there that said my post had the potential of ruining many Christian’s faith (and I was asked to not come back as well). But yet a Christian is *supposed* to have an answer for their faith. I’ll dig up the e-mail for you all.

 

I don't doubt it, I've had similar experiences on various Christian forums where they'd ban me just because I posed questions yet they wouldn't ban Christians who insulted threatened me and other people.

[Guest Passing Thru]

I'm not a christian because I looked critically at the bible, the history of the church and the theology and found it wanting. Was my leaving purely intellectual? Of course not. No decision of this magnitude could be made for purely intellectual reasons.

 

IMOHO,

 

Thanks for the welcome Shankboy

 

You say your not a Christian for the above reasons........all intellectual reasons. Christianity is and never has been about intellectual ideas and concepts. Its not even a religion. Its about a relationship. A personal relationship with God. This site seems dedicated to tearing to shreds the Bible, the history of the church, and Christian theology. And many of you are well versed in Scripture to do it (better than a lot of Christians!) But I dont really believe that any of you (if you look into your hearts) will be happier or more satisfied as you seek for the truth.

 

God bless you

[Mike D]

You seem to be judging Christianity by looking at Christians rather than at what God says in His Word.

Do you judge Islam by looking at Muslims, or do you instead turn to the Quran to form your opinions about Islam? Didn't think so. Same thing with Christianity.

[Mike D]

But I dont really believe that any of you (if you look into your hearts) will be happier or more satisfied as you seek for the truth.

The only person who can look into our hearts is a cardiologist, and unless I am having a triple bypass I don't want one looking into mine. I did seek the truth, and I didn't find it in Christianity. Well I guess unless you believe that donkeys can talk, sticks can turn into snakes, horses can fly and zombies can come back to life and lunch themselves into deep space. Doesn't sound very truthful to me.

[NotBlinded]

...But I dont really believe that any of you (if you look into your hearts) will be happier or more satisfied as you seek for the truth.

 

God bless you

Who's truth would that be? My truth tells me that Christianity is another story to relate people to that feeling of awe that arrises in themsleves when they look around them. They call that feeling God. It uses metaphor and allegory in order to express what people were feeling in their hearts. It is truth to those that feel it just as it is truth to those that feel it from some other means, e.g., looking at the night sky, listening to music or reading the Hindu Upanishads. Your experience is no more valid than theirs and it contains no more, or no less, truth than theirs.

[Lycorth]

Ok, I have been thinking about this lately. I wanted to pose this to you guys and gals. Feedback please!

 

1. The ‘unforgivable sin’, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

Many Xians will gladly overlook blasphemy of the Holah Spurt so as to not turn away a convert or re-convert. It's not a sin that is easy to understand and condemn, like homosexuality or such. It's hard to put one's finger on, and as such, hard to beat someone over the head with. It might as well not exist.

 

2. The Holy Spirit. When you become a Christian, you ‘receive’ ‘Him’. Why do so many Christians have unstable personalities?

 

Of course, that's because Xianity isn't really the magical cure-all for the ills of the world. It should of course be just like that - a person confesses belief and bam! The Holah Spurt comes into him and makes him (or her, of course) perfect and a shining example of morality.

 

Xians who can't exhibit these traits yet are sincere Xians nonetheless are living proof that the Xian god doesn't exist.

[Guest Passing Thru]

You seem to be judging Christianity by looking at Christians rather than at what God says in His Word.

Do you judge Islam by looking at Muslims, or do you instead turn to the Quran to form your opinions about Islam? Didn't think so. Same thing with Christianity.

 

You've got a good technique for arguing...........you place MY side of the argument on the table as well your own. Now I can see why so many atheists win their arguments

[Lycorth]

You've got a good technique for arguing...........you place MY side of the argument on the table as well your own. Now I can see why so many atheists win their arguments

 

Many Atheists win their arguments with Xians by resorting to the facts and to logic. If you can't do better than seemingly accuse Mike of being a jerk, then stop being one yourself and pony up some explanations.

 

Extraodrinary claims require extraodrinary proof. We'd like to see some, please.

[Guest Passing Thru]

You've got a good technique for arguing...........you place MY side of the argument on the table as well your own. Now I can see why so many atheists win their arguments

 

Many Atheists win their arguments with Xians by resorting to the facts and to logic.

 

Extraodrinary claims require extraodrinary proof. We'd like to see some, please.

 

 

I asume you're not one of them! By the way, if you're going to use big words like extraordinary, try to spell it properly.

[Lycorth]

I asume you're not one of them! By the way, if you're going to use big words like extraordinary, try to spell it properly.

 

Oh no! A Xian with an attitude! A tough guy in Jebus' name!

 

Please, please don't smite me! :eek:

 

Douche

[Mike D]

You've got a good technique for arguing...........you place MY side of the argument on the table as well your own. Now I can see why so many atheists win their arguments.

You've got to be kidding me. Are you actually going to sit here and tell me that rather than judging Islam based on Muslims you instead turn to the Quran and form your opinion based on that? What about Hinduism? Do you do the same thing with that religion by reading the Vedas to form your opinion? If you do, then by all means go ahead and argue your own side.

[Guest Passing Thru]

You've got a good technique for arguing...........you place MY side of the argument on the table as well your own. Now I can see why so many atheists win their arguments.

You've got to be kidding me. Are you actually going to sit here and tell me that rather than judging Islam based on Muslims you instead turn to the Quran and form your opinion based on that? What about Hinduism? Do you do the same thing with that religion by reading the Vedas to form your opinion? If you do, then by all means go ahead and argue your own side.

[/quote

 

Why would I be kidding you...are you so far up your own intellectual ass? Don't tell me that you don't judge Christianity by Christians......just have a look at the headings in you're satire and humor section (I was on the floor laughing)

 

And you're an atheist with attitude!! Now there's a novelty.....we can't have emotions like that cos they can't be proved can they?

[Lycorth]

Why would I be kidding you...are you so far up your own intellectual ass?

 

Careful, Mike - he'll smite you

 

And you're an atheist with attitude!! Now there's a novelty.....we can't have emotions like that cos they can't be proved can they?

 

Not true - we can observe emotions. Jebus is what we can't observe

 

*puts on smite-proof suit*

[Mike D]

Wow, you really messed the quote function up. But don't worry i'll fix it for you.

 

Why would I be kidding you...are you so far up your own intellectual ass?

Nice quip. Too bad it doesn't actually mean anything.

 

Don't tell me that you don't judge Christianity by Christians

Of course I judge Christianity by Christians! Why would I not?

 

just have a look at the headings in you're satire and humor section (I was on the floor laughing)

Glad you had a good laugh. But I seriously doubt you laughed as hard reading our humor section as I do reading the Bible!

 

And you're an atheist with attitude!! Now there's a novelty.....we can't have emotions like that cos they can't be proved can they?

No I just like to get to the point.

[Mike D]

Careful, Mike - he'll smite you

Nah I think someone just forgot to take their Xanax today

[Mythra]

I believe there is no such thing as an ex-Christian. Its not in our power to be ex-Christians

 

Truly?? We get to poke fun at jesus and yahweh and still go to heaven??

 

What about free will? We are powerless to choose hell now? What a shame.

 

I find christians amusing.

[Jubilant]

You've got a good technique for arguing...........you place MY side of the argument on the table as well your own. Now I can see why so many atheists win their arguments

 

Many Atheists win their arguments with Xians by resorting to the facts and to logic.

 

Extraodrinary claims require extraodrinary proof. We'd like to see some, please.

 

 

I asume you're not one of them! By the way, if you're going to use big words like extraordinary, try to spell it properly.

 

Before you jump on someone for improper spelling, perhaps you should learn how to spell... assume is spelled assume not asume. At least Varokhar messed up on a big one. (snicker)

[Mike D]

You've got a good technique for arguing...........you place MY side of the argument on the table as well your own. Now I can see why so many atheists win their arguments

 

Many Atheists win their arguments with Xians by resorting to the facts and to logic.

 

Extraodrinary claims require extraodrinary proof. We'd like to see some, please.

 

 

I asume you're not one of them! By the way, if you're going to use big words like extraordinary, try to spell it properly.

 

Before you jump on someone for improper spelling, perhaps you should learn how to spell... assume is spelled assume not asume. At least Varokhar messed up on a big one. (snicker)

*tee hee*

 

**giggles**