Non Religious Person Needs Religios Advice

[Guest serpent keeper]

i stumbled on to this site and figured some one may have some ideas about a problem im having....the solution still evades me.

 

I'm new here so 1st off, Im not an ex christian, Ive never been a christian...ie my grand parents on both sides quit going to church 50 + years ago, both my parents never went to church, and I've never gone to church, never been baptised or even opened the front cover of a bible....though um.. for some strange reason my family still exchanges christmas presents.

 

any ways my problem is about 5'4" tall, brunette, exeptionally good looking, smart, funny and.....keeps trying to drag me into church.

 

I'm having a dificult time persuading her why I shouldnt go. I really dont care if she goes to church or not, i just dont want to go.

The way I see it the worst case cinario which Im seriously considering to allow happen, is to fake religious interest just to keep her happy. As I dont want to let something as stupid as religion come between us...... which also means no more sleeping in on sunday ever, as i have a ring hiding in my tool box if you catch my drift.

 

actaully I caved in last week....she went all teary eyed on me and dragged me in for christmas mass... I got a few mean looks from her family when i refused comunion.... man this shits confusing me.

[Legion]

any ways my problem is about 5'4" tall, brunette, exeptionally good looking, smart, funny and.....keeps trying to drag me into church.

 

man this shits confusing me.

I can't imagine why you might be confused. Perhaps you could offer her a deal. You'll go to church with her if she'll also go out with you on a date.

 

My two cents is to have fun with it, and don't take any of it seriously.

[YDOAPS]

for some strange reason my family still exchanges christmas presents.

No matter what the fundies say, Christmas is a pagan holiday.

 

any ways my problem is about 5'4" tall, brunette, exeptionally good looking, smart, funny and.....keeps trying to drag me into church.

 

I'm having a dificult time persuading her why I shouldnt go. I really dont care if she goes to church or not, i just dont want to go.

Have you tried explaining to her that you don't want to go?

[Guest serpent keeper]

any ways my problem is about 5'4" tall, brunette, exeptionally good looking, smart, funny and.....keeps trying to drag me into church.

 

man this shits confusing me.

I can't imagine why you might be confused. Perhaps you could offer her a deal. You'll go to church with her if she'll also go out with you on a date.

 

My two cents is to have fun with it, and don't take any of it seriously.

 

 

where past the dating stage, been together over 3 years, Like I said i have a ring hiding in my tool box (its for her). her family is extremely relegious, and shes been what I'd call a moderate. but shes been pushing me harder and harder to attend church lately. im wondering if her family pushing her.

[Scarlett]

any ways my problem is about 5'4" tall, brunette, exeptionally good looking, smart, funny and.....keeps trying to drag me into church.

 

I'm having a dificult time persuading her why I shouldnt go. I really dont care if she goes to church or not, i just dont want to go.

The way I see it the worst case cinario which Im seriously considering to allow happen, is to fake religious interest just to keep her happy. As I dont want to let something as stupid as religion come between us...... which also means no more sleeping in on sunday ever, as i have a ring hiding in my tool box if you catch my drift.

 

actaully I caved in last week....she went all teary eyed on me and dragged me in for christmas mass... I got a few mean looks from her family when i refused comunion.... man this shits confusing me.

 

It's not worth it to fake interest in religion, you'll only get in more trouble latter on when you do finally explain that you don't believe and never have. Tell her something to the effect that you just don't care for religion and it would be dishonest of you to go to church and pretend. Maybe that'll help persuade her.

[Legion]

Tell her something to the effect that you just don't care for religion and it would be dishonest of you to go to church and pretend. Maybe that'll help persuade her.

I would argue that going to church does not necessitate that one must also pretend. He could spend the entire time honing his objections to Christianity and not being indoctrinated.

 

He could roll his eyes.

He could say...

 

He doesn't have to actually worship.

[Legion]

but shes been pushing me harder and harder to attend church lately. im wondering if her family pushing her.

I personally couldn't fein a belief in order to placate her. Do you think that she or her family would insist that your potential marriage would be predicated on you becoming a believer?

 

I think there are compromises to be made in all relationships, but I also think that you must preserve your own identity or she may rightly loose respect for you.

[Blue elephant]

I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings mate..... but......

 

I think you should read some of the threads from our members who have deconverted when their spouses haven't. Lots of tension and unhappiness in those threads, particularly where the upbringing of children is concerned.

 

However... you said she tried to drag you into mass, which means she's Catholic. Most Catholics know how to take it with a grain of salt and not go overboard. The Catholics I know go through the rituals on special days, but then get on living a normal life like the rest of us.

 

Maybe you should go through the rituals and just live a normal life as well?? Catholic wedding ceremonies used to include a promise to bring the children up as Catholics. Does anyone knwo whether this is still the case?

 

How's that for two points of view in the one post? Or "having two bob each way" as we say in Australia?

 

Good luck, congratulations in advance and every happiness for the future.

[Scarlett]

Tell her something to the effect that you just don't care for religion and it would be dishonest of you to go to church and pretend. Maybe that'll help persuade her.

I would argue that going to church does not necessitate that one must also pretend. He could spend the entire time honing his objections to Christianity and not being indoctrinated.

 

He could roll his eyes.

He could say...

 

He doesn't have to actually worship.

 

 

Oh I definitely agree. But I was trying to give him an idea of something to say that may get his girlfriend to stop pestering him to go to church.

[Legion]

Oh I definitely agree. But I was trying to give him an idea of something to say that may get his girlfriend to stop pestering him to go to church.

Dig it. I hear you.

[pandora]

I bet this is especially bewildering to you since you have no frame of reference. You probably can't even fathom why it's so important to her.

 

I have two suggestions. The first is to do church with her, make a compromise and go only on Wednesdays or find a church that does Sunday nights. Go, but don't get too involved, but enough to please her. Maybe giving it a somewhat fair chance will give you some insight as to why you think it's silly. I see that ending badly, but it's the easier choice.

 

My other suggestion is more complicated. If you can't articulate why you don't like religion, you aren't going to be very effective... so get reading. On Christianity's history, on world religions, etc... figure out exactly why you reject Christianity. Get knowledgeable enough to discuss it with her so she doesn't talk you into a corner. This could also end badly, but it's more honest, and you might make her think a little more about what she believes.

 

You could make up some bogus story like you were traumatized in a church as a child, and you can't bear to keep going back... it's too painful.. blah blah. It's dishonest, but it might tug at her heartstrings and she may be sympathetic. You could say you have some ethical problem with church... or say you think spirituality is between you and God. There's a lot of vague things you can say that might satisfy her for the time being.

 

Things involving family or family-to-be are always complicated... I wish you the best. I hope you get what you're after! The bad news is that as long as she's a Christian, she will want you to be one too, depending on the level of her commitment. She may even say no to you, but if you've been together three years, I doubt it. If she says yes, she will always feel like something is missing when it comes to the marriage because that is what she's taught. She will always mourn your soul.

 

What denomination is she from? I'm guessing it can't be all that important to her if she is only recently trying to make it an issue. Have you discussed marriage? Does she know it's coming? This could be why she's bringing it up.

[Guest Passing Thru]

Surely in any relationship, honesty is an important element. If you can't be honest about your beliefs (or anything else) this is not the basis for a good stable relationship. Tell her that you respect her belief system, and she should respect yours.

[ShackledNoMore]

The trouble with feigning a religious interest is that it is fundamentally dishonest, and will be likely to haunt you in the future. It may smooth things over now, but if you indeed have a future with this woman, the issue is not something that will go away.

 

Yes, it really does seem tragic that something so seemingly foolish as this might jeopardize an otherwise great and promising relationship, but this is a matter taken extremely seriously by adherents, and for many, it's the central obsession of their lives.

 

That being said, your prospective fiancee does sound moderate, as you say, although the trend of her increased pressure looks quite alarming, and she does seem to have a strict background and may be subject to becoming more devout. I would be up front about things now, talk things through, see what happens and how she reacts, and let the chips fall where they may. She may move toward the way you see things or embrace more of a live and let live position (but if she backs off without a transition in her actual beliefs and you wish to continue to more forward with the relationship, be very careful that it's a stable attitude that won't change: there are perils here involving her family, background, and the current pressures she is exerting).

 

Yes, it would be frustrating for things to go down the tubes because of this, but if it turns out not to be reconcilable and that this would have been a serious/tenacious issue down the road you (and she) really will be better off if they go down the tubes now instead of then.

[Amethyst]

Why not just say "I don't care to go to church with you. I'm not religious." There are times in one's life when assertiveness is necessary. This is one of those times.

 

I have to agree that any long-term relationship has to be based on honesty. If you are unable to be honest with your girlfriend now, how much more dishonest will you be when you're married?

[Mikefight]

You should consider the future and listening to her ask you every Sunday for the rest of your life to go to church.

 

Also, If you decide to have children, she is going to take your kids to church and they might think Daddy is not a good person because he does not love Jesus. It is a terrible situation and very hard on a relationship.

 

Find and atheist support group in your town and ask her to go to that with you.

[R. S. Martin]

You should consider the future and listening to her ask you every Sunday for the rest of your life to go to church.

 

Also, If you decide to have children, she is going to take your kids to church and they might think Daddy is not a good person because he does not love Jesus. It is a terrible situation and very hard on a relationship.

 

Find and atheist support group in your town and ask her to go to that with you.

 

I think this is the very best answer so far. I've read so many heart-rending stories on this site of people who deconverted and their spouses remained devout Christians. I know that the very thought of ending the relationship now before you are married is unthinkable and excruciatingly painful. But every nerve of my being says for heavens sake don't start off by being unequally yoked! "Unequally yoked" is a Christian phrase: Don't be unequally yoked to unbelievers. It is understood to mean that getting married to a person who does not share one's own value or belief system is a very bad idea.

 

Someone pointed out to me that when the Bible and rules about marriage were written, because of the short human lifespan marriage for life was perhaps ten or twenty years. Now a days it's a sixty year sentence. I know from bitter experience that one can put up with something perhaps twenty years, but not for forty or sixty. One might think long term is long term. And that is correct.

 

But some terms are longer than others and human strength does wear out with time. For the Christians trolling this site let me add that this is the case with or without god. I did it with God and it didn't work. My strength finally became exhausted. Perhaps if I had not tried to hang onto god I would have had more strength to hold onto life.

 

I would say if you can't do it for your own sake, do it for the sake of your children not to marry a Christian if you don't share her beliefs. It must be extremely confusing for children if one parent is a devout Christian and the other is an unbeliever. It will flavour the relationship with your wife and your off-spring forever. There will always be an underlying tension that can never be positively resolved without one of you giving in on major values. Pretending just isn't worth the energy it takes. That is my advice. The ring will keep.

[Guest hickory]

From saying you went to Mass I assume she's Catholic. Knowing you're not Catholic ( maybe they didn't) the relatives should be relieved you didn't go to communion as "the church" doesn't allow non-Catholics at their table.

 

In answer to an earlier post Yes the church still requires a non-Catholic marrying a Catholic to sign that they will raise the children in the faith. Of course that is only if they are married in the church.

 

Have you and she talked about marriage? Or is the ring a total surprise? I would suggest the two of you honestly discuss your future expectations with each other before getting engaged.

 

And yes you can be a Cultural Catholic (that's how I was raised) and not get to ate up with the whole thing - most are.

 

hickory

[Curtdude]

Surely in any relationship, honesty is an important element. ....

 

Hey, Welcome SerpentKeeper!

 

I've got to agree with PassingThu, here. Of course, no one here at ex-c knows either you, nor your love interest...how emotionally involved you both are, the nature of your relationship, blah blah blah.

 

But I'd go w/ the "honest straight-talk" approach. I think Amythest said it quite well: "If you are unable to be honest with your girlfriend now, how much more dishonest will you be when you're married?"

[Guest serpent keeper]

thanks, Im not looking for an answer form any one, wouldnt expect any one to tell me what to do.. basicly Im just after difernt ideas & view points to get myself thinking a bit. This isues been been swept up an hiddin under the couch too long. it needs to be delt with.

 

 

for the record Im not a hard line athiest..more an agnostic who considers organized religion as just a method of obtaning power, money, and controll over other people. I know where i stand and she knows it, as ive explained it to her a 100 times, yet she keeps bugging me. I'm gonna deal with it this weekend and hopefully not wind up fighting, as there needs to mutual agreement beetween us over this.

[godlessgrrl]

Something about your whole situation is raising major red flags with me. Not in the sense of any abusive stuff going on, more in the sense of "Religion is going to be a problem here."

 

First piece of unsolicited advice: DO NOT, I repeat, NOT give her that ring (or otherwise get engaged in any way, shape or form) until you have worked out the religious friction between you. You will be setting yourself up for a great deal more misery if you do - so hold off for now.

 

thanks, Im not looking for an answer form any one, wouldnt expect any one to tell me what to do.. basicly Im just after difernt ideas & view points to get myself thinking a bit. This isues been been swept up an hiddin under the couch too long. it needs to be delt with.

 

If you've been with this person for 3 years and the religious issues haven't been confronted yet, that's WAY too long. Something, somewhere, isn't getting communicated. And that's not okay, especially if you're talking about someone you're considering marrying. The reason being that religious issues will impact your marriage and family dynamics until the day you die.

 

For instance - if she's a Catholic, guess how she's going to want to raise your children? If she's nagging you now, do you think it'll stop after you marry? It won't. In fact it'll likely increase, particularly if she's getting pressure from her family to drag you to church.

 

for the record Im not a hard line athiest..more an agnostic who considers organized religion as just a method of obtaning power, money, and controll over other people. I know where i stand and she knows it, as ive explained it to her a 100 times, yet she keeps bugging me. I'm gonna deal with it this weekend and hopefully not wind up fighting, as there needs to mutual agreement beetween us over this.

 

If you've explained where you stand and she continues to try and drag you to church, she's being very manipulative, and you aren't being assertive enough. I would seriously think twice before marrying someone who was so disrespectful of my religious positions that they continued to try and push the issue even after I firmly told them no.

 

In fact, I actually have been in that position. I've posted here about a fundy ex who tried to push me back into Xianity (his version). I resisted and resisted, until finally he got fed up with me and, on the advice of a devout Xian friend, "got rid" of me "so that the Lord could find him a godly woman". Earlier than fundy ex, I too dated a Catholic, who tried all sorts of tactics to manipulate me and our relationship when his religion piled on the guilt too thick. And I've missionary dated, too - my ex-husband converted under pressure from me, when I was a Xian.

 

The unfortunate thing is that religion doesn't have to be a major issue between two people. It's only as big a problem as a couple makes it (or as one person in a couple makes it). But when it's an issue, it's nothing but divisive, in my experience. Xianity demands loyalty, and demands a loyalty greater than devotion to family and loved ones. If you marry a devout Xian, you will likely always take second place to their religious faith. And that isn't right.

 

Furthermore, devout believers or churchgoers have this nasty, disrepectful habit of not being able to show the same level of consideration for unbelievers as we are for them. I don't get the impression that you'd try to make her give up her religion, or manipulate her into going to a freethinkers meeting, or deconvert her... yet is she willing to show you the same consideration? If she's been bugging you about it for 3 years now, the answer is no. She isn't willing. And that isn't fair, and isn't right.

 

So the sad reality is that if you can't work something out, and work it out soon, you should probably be prepared to walk away from this girl, as much as you might love her.

 

That's my rambling bunch of advice, to take or leave as you wish. Keep us posted on how it goes this weekend, and good luck.

[Clearview]

Another thing about Catholics... You must become on in order to marry one in the Church. Marrying outside of the Church isn't considered a real marriage by Catholics, something I'm sure her family will frown upon at the very least.

[R. S. Martin]

In the mid-80s I worked with a Catholic woman who was married to a nonChristian. She told me they had to promise to raise the children Catholic. They were doing it. The boys were aged approximately 12-16 at the time and wanted to know why they had to go to church if Dad didn't.

[mick]

Hey Serpent Keeper.

 

I don't know if you are still around, but here is some info. Know what it is you are getting into. You say you never opened the Bible. Here are some scritpures about the God of the Bible, some you can know him a little bit before you decide what to associate yourself with. Bet your girlfriend has no idea about these scritpures either. This is a small list. There are hundreds more like this. It's amazing ANYONE actually considers the Bible "HolY" ANy here goes:

 

Love?

 

"I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children." (Leviticus 26:22)

 

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourself every girl who has never slept with a man." (Numbers 31:17-18)

 

"The Lord commands: "... slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women" (Ezechial 9:4-6)

 

"When the Lord delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the males .... As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves." (Deuteronomy 20:13-14)

 

"You will eat the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you." (Deuteronomy 28:53)

 

"The Lord said to Joshua [...] 'you are to hamstring their horses.' " (Exceedingly cruel.) (Joshua 11:6)

 

"... Go and smite the inhabitants of Jabesh-gilead with the edge of the sword and; also the women and little ones.... every male and every woman that has lain with a male you shall utterly destroy." (Judges 21:10-12)

 

"This is what the Lord says: Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass .... And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword." (1 Samuel 15:3,7-8)

 

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their women with child ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

 

"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work!

A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" (Jeremiah 48:10)

[R. S. Martin]

To carry on with Mick's theme as to what is in the Bible, here is the heart and soul of Christianity:

 

John 3:16

 

For God so loved the world that whosoever should believe on him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

Here's* a batch of verses from the Bible about what one must to to be a Christian:

 

Counting the Cost of Discipleship

Luke 14:25

 

25 Now large crowds were traveling with him; and he turned and said to them,

 

Luke 14:26"Whoever comes to me [Jesus] and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and even life itself, cannot be my disciple. Matthew 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;

 

Mark 8:34 He [Jesus] called the crowd with his disciples, and said to them, "If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. Luke 9:23 Then he said to them all, "If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. Luke 14:27 Whoever does not carry the cross and follow me cannot be my disciple. Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus told his disciples, "If any want to become my followers, let them deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. Matthew 10:38 and whoever does not take up the cross and follow me [Jesus] is not worthy of me.

 

Mark 8:35 For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my [Jesus'] sake, and for the sake of the gospel, will save it. Luke 9:24 For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my [Jesus'] sake will save it. Luke 17:33 Those who try to make their life secure will lose it, but those who lose their life will keep it. Matthew 16:25 For those who want to save their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my [Jesus'] sake will find it. Matthew 10:39 Those who find their life will lose it, and those who lose their life for my [Jesus'] sake will find it.

 

Luke 14:28-33

 

28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not first sit down and estimate the cost, to see whether he has enough to complete it?

29 Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it will begin to ridicule him,

30 saying, 'This fellow began to build and was not able to finish.'

31 Or what king, going out to wage war against another king, will not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to oppose the one who comes against him with twenty thousand?

32 If he cannot, then, while the other is still far away, he sends a delegation and asks for the terms of peace.

33 So therefore, none of you can become my disciple if you do not give up all your possessions.

 

 

*This is from Libronix Digital Library, New Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

 

You can find online Bibles here. Christians take the above verses on Cost of Discipleship very, very seriously, esp. the part about loving Jesus (read religion) more than spouse, children, parents, or any other humans whoever they be.

[xild]

Wait a minute, Fundis take communion too, on Christmas. That threw me. I'm not so concerned now I realize she's a Catholic.

 

The problems do come in mostly, in raising the children. And don't Catholics have it set up so you can go to services at all different times if you don't to go on Sunday morning?