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I Am An Ex-christian....


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Guest virraszto

I don't believe in God anymore. I don't believe in any God or gods. I have done a lot of internet surfing to try to find where I fit in, if I do. Having said I don't believe in God, or gods, I don't think I've read anywhere on this forum of anyone who has experienced anything supernatural, like I have. The forums I have visited it seems that all the athiest do not believe in any kind of supernatural at all, and poke fun at the subject. ( I'm not talking about this forum.)

 

I don't know how to define myself now. I have had experiences with seeing ghosts, or spirits or whatever you want to call them. People who were once dead. I've had activity in my homes. I am not a nut case. My whole family has seen and heard the same things I have....together and at different times. I don't think these experiences have anything to do with God or gods, but I don't know how to explain them.

 

I'm confused in that if I have seen ghosts, where did they come from? Is it possible there is a parallel universe? At the risk of being riduculed, I'm very confused as to how this relates to my not believing in God. Does one assume that if someone has seen ghosts, it has something to do with God? Is there a name for people like me who don't believe in god, but do believe in ghosts? What is a ghost? Could it be after someone dies they move on to the next realm?

 

I'm really confused and if anyone can offer any advice without ridiculing me, I'd appreciate it.

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First, a hearty welcome to you virraszto. I am also one of those "nutcases" who has had plenty of paranormal experiences. I've even talked about them on the radio and written stories about them. I am currently reading a short book of stories called "Gaelic Ghosts."

 

My entire family has had some pretty wild experiences and we even have EVP's and some interesting pictures. It's part of the reason I am pagan as opposed to atheist.

 

So don't feel weird and don't feel like an outcast. I have been very welcomed here, though I haven't spoken much about my paranormal experiences. I think the atheists here are open-minded and respectful enough not to ridicule you, and they may offer a different perspective and insight on what they think you could attribute your experiences to.

 

I'll share some stories with you later, but for now I will simply tell you that we have experienced things moving, sounds, lights turning on and off, analog radios tuning themselves to a different station, seeing apparitions, weird smells, and lots of other paranormal goodies.

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you'll find yourself fitting in with several on this board regarding supernatural and paranormal experiences........just not me :D

 

But welcome any way

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Does one assume that if someone has seen ghosts, it has something to do with God?

 

I don't see a connection.

 

Humans have been evolving for a long time, who is to say an "afterlife" of some sort has not come into being as well? Purely speculation as we have no way to test such a thing yet.

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Hey there and welcome.

 

I am kind of on the fence myself between paganism/agnostic/atheisim.

 

Personally I really do not want to belive in ghosts and spirts... it just kind of weirds/freaks me out too much.

 

I still can't figure out why I ended up buying a fairy wisdom deck of tarot cards.. though? I guess I am kind of open minded.. and kind of believe in universal energy or something.

 

A lot of us have been burned by spirituality in xianity, and have realized how fake it was which I think makes ex-christians a bit more skeptical when it comes to ghosts and paranormal. Or maybe it is just the equivalant to beleving in demons and hell?

 

Anyhow welcome... this is a great place and there are many people of various beliefs or lack of beliefs however you want to put it here.

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Welcome :wave:

 

Consider for a moment that ghosts have nothing to do with the Xian god. The Xian religion does not teach that souls roam the earth after death - they go to be judged, or some say they sleep in the grave. Either or, ghosts roaming free without Da Lard keeping them on leashes just isn't Xian.

 

There can be many explanations for ghosts. They can be genuine souls or humans, perhaps some sort of "psychic imprint" some people have managed to leave on the world around them, noncorporeal life-forms that may be good or evil or neither and for some reason have taken on human forms and mimic human behaviors, or they are just figments of the imagination.

 

None of these have anything to do with Xianity, but one of these may be the answer to the ghost question. Or perhaps none of them are, and there is another answer or answers out there. It's just one of those things we don't have entirely figured out yet, so keep your eyes open as to what new things are discovered regarding this.

 

But keeping an open mind is key, not just to the ghost question, but to everything. You know the Xian religion is crap and are not afraid of Atheism, so just keep on keeping on. You'll not get the answers overnight and there are no Atheist resources that have them.

 

Atheists, like all ex-xians and non-xians, are just trying to figure out the world as we go along. Hang in there and you'll get answers - and more reliable ones than Xianity would've given you. Just do not be afraid to question everything you believe in and demand reasons and proof, because questions are the path to wisdom - and fearing to question only leads to ignorance.

 

As an ex-xian, I'm sure you've had your fill of ignorance ;)

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Let's face it. Lots of people see and experience lots of things that aren't real.

 

I won't poke fun at what you think you've seen. But, I also won't accept that it's real.

 

Nor would I if I thought I saw it myself.

 

The mind is capable of doing all kinds of things.

 

In Carl Sagan's book - The Demon Haunted World, there is a chapter On Distinguishing Between True and False Visions.

 

I'd recommend that book to anyone who thinks they're stuck between the physical and "spiritual" worlds.

 

So, viraszto, you're certainly welcome here. And we'll try not to ridicule you. But don't think that there will be an overwhelming chorus of OOH's and AAH's about your stories.

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Welcome Virraszto. I think you'll fit in fine here. These people don't strike me as stagnant individuals. They are dynamic and their views seem to constantly change and evolve.

 

I don't adhere to a belief in the supernatural myself, but I won't ridicule you for doing so. I think there might even be aspects of the natural world that are so poorly understood that we might be tempted call them "paranormal". I think much remains to be discovered.

 

Again, welcome.

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Welcome!

 

I don't know where I fit, nor how to define myself either.

 

I'm beginning to not care about definations, so I just figure I'll just try to keep on learning.

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Plenty of atheists beleive as you do. There are many theories of whether ghosts exist and what they might be. As a scientist I have seen no evidense that wasn't easily refuted to indicate that they exist and have observed a fake sceance which worked and completely convinced all involved, including the girl who beleived she was channeling the ghost, until the girl in the picture was revealed alive outside and the story related by the ghost, revealed as having been made up by the organiser before the experiment. Personel experiance such as yours is a very different animal, but also one which is highly changable, depending on memory which can easily change without the subjects knowledge. If you saw a spirit person come over and talk to you then thats another kettle of fish, but vague shapes and falling plates usually have other explanations. I have seen much said about the voices sometimes heard in white noise of tape recorders left recording in deserted rooms. To this I would say, the voics is usually impossible to understand and, when it is, is often a local radio station weather report. This is due to a tape recorders ability to pick up radio signals through its emiting or receiving circuits. Remember, an antenae is a bit of wire and a tape recorders circuits are bits of wire.

As I said, no evidense so far, but I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong. It would certainly make the world more interesting.

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I have seen much said about the voices sometimes heard in white noise of tape recorders left recording in deserted rooms. To this I would say, the voics is usually impossible to understand and, when it is, is often a local radio station weather report. This is due to a tape recorders ability to pick up radio signals through its emiting or receiving circuits. Remember, an antenae is a bit of wire and a tape recorders circuits are bits of wire.

nu-uhh... :)

 

I would doubt this too if I didn't have a voice on my recorder that said one word that I said right before I said it. Freaky stuff! All the other ones that I have received, I could agree that what you said above is a possiblity, but that one I just can't explain. I guess it is possible that I said what I was going to say before I said it, but I usually don't repeat myself, but it's possible. I don't have the tools necessary to analyze it properly to see if it could have been my voice.

 

Anyway, I don't think rejecting the notion of "God" as is commonly understood by people would require a rejection of something else that may seem paranormal. I'm with the others that think the paranormal is only the unexplained normal. When I got the recording above, the thought of a parallel universe entered my mind too. :)

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I believe you do see something. I don't think that there is any reason to accept the idea that what it is you see are "spirits" in the traditional sense. I know people that see color or hear music when they think of numbers. I think that you have some sensory mutation that most people don't get that allows you to sense some portions of the spectrum that most people don't have. Id be willing to bet that DNA studies of people that can "see ghosts" would turn up a gene or two that others don't have. If I had this sort of sight, I'd figure out how to study it to figure out what I was seeing. Since there is no supernatural, what you experience must be natural and thus explainable.

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I have seen much said about the voices sometimes heard in white noise of tape recorders left recording in deserted rooms. To this I would say, the voics is usually impossible to understand and, when it is, is often a local radio station weather report. This is due to a tape recorders ability to pick up radio signals through its emiting or receiving circuits. Remember, an antenae is a bit of wire and a tape recorders circuits are bits of wire.

As I said, no evidense so far, but I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong. It would certainly make the world more interesting.

 

Sorry but I've recorded EVP and I'm also a broadcast engineer. I've heard this explanation before and for the most part it's BS. Now, there's a lot of EVP that is explainable and some people will go to any length to prove that some anomaly in a recording is a ghost, but there are definitely recordings made that can't be readily explained by what we know as natural. I would consider an imprint created by RF induction to be natural.

 

I understand why most people are skeptics. I would be too if I hadn't experienced things personally. I've experienced things where there were witnesses, so I know it's not all in my head. I'd love for someone to explain to me how a radio with an analog tuner (mechanical, non-digital with a knob you turn and a frequency display that is a sliding pointer on a tightly wound string) can tune itself from one side of the dial to the other by itself. Or how a light switch can click itself on and off.

 

No I can't explain how things like this happened, but I can tell you it wasn't in my head and it wasn't "natural." I experienced more "supernatural" outside of the christian god than I ever did as a christian. At least my paranormal experiences were tangible.

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I use to have vivid dreams and what I thought were visions. They were so realistic that I would ask my husband or kids if they really happened. Turns out I had sleep apnea. The lack of oxygen to my brain caused wild hallucinations and frightening nightmares that seemed very real. This went on for years until I got a machine that helps me breath at night. I'm not saying this is your answer, but I do think there is an explanation.

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I have seen much said about the voices sometimes heard in white noise of tape recorders left recording in deserted rooms. To this I would say, the voics is usually impossible to understand and, when it is, is often a local radio station weather report. This is due to a tape recorders ability to pick up radio signals through its emiting or receiving circuits. Remember, an antenae is a bit of wire and a tape recorders circuits are bits of wire.

As I said, no evidense so far, but I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong. It would certainly make the world more interesting.

 

Sorry but I've recorded EVP and I'm also a broadcast engineer. I've heard this explanation before and for the most part it's BS. Now, there's a lot of EVP that is explainable and some people will go to any length to prove that some anomaly in a recording is a ghost, but there are definitely recordings made that can't be readily explained by what we know as natural. I would consider an imprint created by RF induction to be natural.

 

I understand why most people are skeptics. I would be too if I hadn't experienced things personally. I've experienced things where there were witnesses, so I know it's not all in my head. I'd love for someone to explain to me how a radio with an analog tuner (mechanical, non-digital with a knob you turn and a frequency display that is a sliding pointer on a tightly wound string) can tune itself from one side of the dial to the other by itself. Or how a light switch can click itself on and off.

 

No I can't explain how things like this happened, but I can tell you it wasn't in my head and it wasn't "natural." I experienced more "supernatural" outside of the christian god than I ever did as a christian. At least my paranormal experiences were tangible.

 

 

I can attest to this, being Celtic Cat's wife. We have had many paranormal experiences--and before we married we each had our own experiences. It does give proof to a spiritual afterlife--being that some paranormal things are spirits of people who lived before--or a crossing of plans or something--but doesn't really give any proof of God, still (I don't seem to be able to find proof yet--I would like to believe but...)... so I'm still wondering if there is really a God or not. :shrug:

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I understand why most people are skeptics. I would be too if I hadn't experienced things personally. I've experienced things where there were witnesses, so I know it's not all in my head. I'd love for someone to explain to me how a radio with an analog tuner (mechanical, non-digital with a knob you turn and a frequency display that is a sliding pointer on a tightly wound string) can tune itself from one side of the dial to the other by itself. Or how a light switch can click itself on and off.

 

for the light switch, its probably a poor connection try replacing the wall switch and circuit breaker its possible that there is dust or some buildup between the contacts.

 

as for the radio I have no idea, however i would still be very reluctant to jump to any sort of otherworldly explanation.

 

I have had experiences that I would call "supernatural" except that I know what they were. I was sleeping at a friend of a friends house one night (un familiar house) and was having some trouble falling asleep, right when i was on the verge of falling asleep i saw out of the corner of my eye this "vaporous black mass" it was blacker than black, it moved over my body and i couldn't move, I felt a tingling sensation all over me... Had I still been a christian it would have scared me to death, and i would have probably been seeking out an exorcist because i would have believed it was a demon or something.

 

this story sounds paranormal, except that I know of a documented condition called sleep paralysis, you are in a state of mind somewhere between asleep and awake. Your brain is emitting a chemical on your spinal column to keep you from acting out dreams, but your are still concious. In addion to the parts of your brain that manifest things in your dreams is active. You will see things moving around, you will beable to feel them touch you, and you will manifest the most scary things you can because you will be scared out of your mind if you don't realize what is happening . It should statistically happen to all of us atleast twice, If you don't know what it is when it happens it is supposed to be about the most terrifying experience you can have. while it was going on, i realized what was happening to me and thought it was facinating rather than terrifying. I firmly believe there is a rational explanation for everything.

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Welcome.

 

Keep in mind that most people on this site are skeptics and we've learned from experience not to blindly accept what another person says. For the most part, I personally don't care what people believe, as long as they don't expect me to believe it too, or say that they are the only one who's right and everyone else is wrong. You don't have to be a Christian to be a fundy.

 

Now, you might want to google low frequency sound waves. These produce things like gray haze that resembles ghosts, they can levitate small objects, and have been known to give people chills or make them feel like another person is in the room.

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Guest virraszto

Thank you all for your excellent replies. Even those of you who don't believe in the paranormal were understanding and didn't ridicule me because I do. To me, there are still a lot of things that aren't answered and might never be answered. I just know what I do and what I don't believe in. I totally appreciate the fact that most of you don't believe in the paranormal. I didn't either and was a die hard skeptic until some things... many things.. which I won't get into happened to me and my family. I'm not going to keep searching for a label of what I believe in.

 

Thanks again for your replies. :)

 

virraszto

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There is a growing number of physicists in the field of that believe there is evidence for the existence of other dimensions. Extra dimensions are predicted by a branch of physics called String Theory. Which is still in it's emergent phase but advocated by some very big names in science such as Hawkins.

 

Here is a link to a video on String Theory by Nova. The entire thing is very long (about 6 hours) but you can watch it in chapters

 

The Elegant Universe

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It does give proof to a spiritual afterlife--being that some paranormal things are spirits of people who lived before--or a crossing of plans or something--but doesn't really give any proof of God, still (I don't seem to be able to find proof yet--I would like to believe but...)... so I'm still wondering if there is really a God or not. :shrug:

 

If you believe in the paranormal then you have no really good reason for not believing in God. You might not believe in the Bible accounts, or any particular written version, but you must give God the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, you have to throw out the paranormal as well, since God is, by definition, paranormal!

 

How can I say this? Because your 'proof' of paranormal is based on your sensory experiences. So if you believe in ghosts because you saw one, you would have to also believe in angels or God if you saw them as well, and since many MANY people claim to have done just that, you have to give it plausibility.

 

Now me, since I do NOT give such things the benefit of the doubt or plausibility, believe neither in God nor in paranormal phenomenon. I realize that it is more comfortable to remain in the middle on this issue, but if you approach it with logic and reason it really is one or the other....in my not-so-humble opinion. :scratch:

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There is a growing number of physicists in the field of that believe there is evidence for the existence of other dimensions. Extra dimensions are predicted by a branch of physics called String Theory. Which is still in it's emergent phase but advocated by some very big names in science such as Hawkins.

 

Here is a link to a video on String Theory by Nova. The entire thing is very long (about 6 hours) but you can watch it in chapters

 

The Elegant Universe

 

actually many leading scientists are now decrying the entire field of String Theory as non-science. Much of this is because it has yet to be determined (after 30 years) how to falsify it! That is pretty much basic scientific process.

 

Not Even Wrong - Peter Woit

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for the light switch, its probably a poor connection try replacing the wall switch and circuit breaker its possible that there is dust or some buildup between the contacts.

 

First, let me apologize for coming across so strong with my "you're wrong, I'm right" attitude earlier in this thread. I must admit I have no idea what caused the phenomena I've experienced, but I can tell you it wasn't caused by anything we presently know to be "normal." Whether or not they are the disembodied spirits of the dead, or a parallel universe, or some huge electromagnetic disturbance, I don't know, but the experiences are real.

 

As for the light switch, this is not a bad connection we're talking about. This was the switch physically moving from the on to off position, and it was not spring loaded.

 

I've read about the low frequency phenomena and I'm skeptical about it. All sorts of low frequency sounds are generated by machinery, even cars and trucks, all around us on a constant basis and there has been no significant increase in paranormal activity since industrialization began. The experiments have also not been reproduced independently in a lab anywhere that I know of.

 

Some people have suggested that strong electromagnetic fields would cause these sorts of things, but I have worked in very strong electromagnetic fields my entire career and have never found an increase in paranormal activity in these places as compared to outside of them.

 

My two cents. Not trying to shove anything down anyone's throat, just giving my perspective on it.

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I tend to agree with Trashy. Either the paranormal exists or it doesn't exist. IMO nothing exists outside of nature, so there's nothing "supernatural".

 

Now, that having been said, I saw an aura once. I was not on drugs and I do not have any mental problems. I don't drink to excess, and I wasn't having a migraine headache at the time. It only happened once. Do I think that means it's paranormal? No. It could've been anything. Could've been a brain fart, for all I know. There could be some other explanation too. But I do understand why people think they see things, and why they think those things must be something magical or supernatural, even if they're not.

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But would you agree, Amethyst, that there are things that are natural that we simply don't understand and perceive to be supernatural? In other words, there are phenomena that exist outside of the "norm" that mainstream science hasn't thoroughly investigated or discovered yet?

 

I'm willing to concede that my experiences are natural in the above context.

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But would you agree, Amethyst, that there are things that are natural that we simply don't understand and perceive to be supernatural? In other words, there are phenomena that exist outside of the "norm" that mainstream science hasn't thoroughly investigated or discovered yet?

 

I'm willing to concede that my experiences are natural in the above context.

 

Well yes, but that doesn't make them somehow mystical or magical. Doesn't mean that ghosts are actually spirits of dead people.

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